New Electric MX: BRD Redshift

wardy
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2/17/2012 11:18pm Edited Date/Time 2/17/2012 11:20pm
IF 5 show up at any of my events. I mean any kind of these new electrics. there will be a class for them to race. If i wasn't such a tight ass I would buy one for my trail marshall machine at our riding park. LOL then i would have to keep the kids off of it.

talk about Night HS racing with electrics would rock.
or better yet, do a shootout of all the latest electrics and hold an event for them. we would be happy to do that also. Are the products ready for that yet?
eb313
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2/18/2012 6:00am
Where's the government incentives for "green" vehicles on the Ebikes, and how about all the subsidies and grants for the manufacturers?
2/18/2012 7:52am
Ok, Stupid question: why not put a smaller motor in it with a clutch & gear box?

Would a smaller motor run longer on the available juice?

I like the concept of e-power, it would be great for the indoor tracks that we ride on here in the winter. We ride ten-minute sessions, I tend to go out for 4-5 sessions, so it would need to have a minimun of 60 minutes of full power available. ( I never run my cr250 dry, I always add a splash before heading out.) Piece of mind, you know.

The Shop

jmar
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2/18/2012 8:36am
Brace yourselves naysayer's. It's going to take some time, but it is the future and it's coming your way.
fasterfaster
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2/19/2012 8:51pm
Ok, Stupid question: why not put a smaller motor in it with a clutch & gear box? Would a smaller motor run longer on the available...
Ok, Stupid question: why not put a smaller motor in it with a clutch & gear box?

Would a smaller motor run longer on the available juice?

I like the concept of e-power, it would be great for the indoor tracks that we ride on here in the winter. We ride ten-minute sessions, I tend to go out for 4-5 sessions, so it would need to have a minimun of 60 minutes of full power available. ( I never run my cr250 dry, I always add a splash before heading out.) Piece of mind, you know.
A smaller motor wouldn't be any more efficient, and in fact a clutch and gearbox would create more parasitic losses, so you would lose range. However, a gear box DOES allow you to increase rear wheel torque at low speeds and extend top speed at the other end. With the motor we developed from scratch, we have as much torque as you'd have traction off the line, and enough top speed to match a 250 with a 6 speed (100mph with the right sprockets, though 65mph as geared form the factory), so we chose not to use a gear box.

Unless you have your pro license you should get 60 minutes at race pace out of this bike. We've been getting 4-5 15 minute supermoto sessions out of it, and supermoto puts down considerably more power than dirt.
fasterfaster
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2/19/2012 8:53pm
eb313 wrote:
Where's the government incentives for "green" vehicles on the Ebikes, and how about all the subsidies and grants for the manufacturers?
Right now there's a 10% fed incentive and then it varies by state. For this reason, we'll ship even our race bikes as street legal with lights. It's worth it to strip the lights and throw on race plastics to get minimum $1500 off. Plus you end up with a race bike that you can legally flog on the streets.
BobbyM
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2/19/2012 9:28pm
TripleFive wrote:
The real difficulty in making a decent electric bike is adapting the power to the wheel for different track conditions / lean angle/yaw etc... A lot...
The real difficulty in making a decent electric bike is adapting the power to the wheel for different track conditions / lean angle/yaw etc... A lot of people don't understand what an electric motor feels like - no gears and immediate power - traction control is a must.
max torque off the bat,....goes to zero at speed
joe stanley
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2/20/2012 8:40am
BRD had a booth at Indy the bike displayed was very impressive! Was even cooler to be at the booth when THE Gary Jones was checking it out!
fasterfaster
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2/20/2012 9:54am
BRD had a booth at Indy the bike displayed was very impressive! Was even cooler to be at the booth when THE Gary Jones was checking...
BRD had a booth at Indy the bike displayed was very impressive! Was even cooler to be at the booth when THE Gary Jones was checking it out!
Seriously... it was crazy to share the bike with guys like Gary, Chuck Sun, Tom White, Mark Blackwell, Scot Harden, and I'm sure a few I forgot. Really humbling to hear them excited about the bike and eager to offer advice and help.
2/20/2012 9:55am
When we going to see one in a SX or MX demonstration?
Rooster
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2/20/2012 10:11am
A smaller motor wouldn't be any more efficient, and in fact a clutch and gearbox would create more parasitic losses, so you would lose range. However...
A smaller motor wouldn't be any more efficient, and in fact a clutch and gearbox would create more parasitic losses, so you would lose range. However, a gear box DOES allow you to increase rear wheel torque at low speeds and extend top speed at the other end. With the motor we developed from scratch, we have as much torque as you'd have traction off the line, and enough top speed to match a 250 with a 6 speed (100mph with the right sprockets, though 65mph as geared form the factory), so we chose not to use a gear box.

Unless you have your pro license you should get 60 minutes at race pace out of this bike. We've been getting 4-5 15 minute supermoto sessions out of it, and supermoto puts down considerably more power than dirt.
At 4-5 15 minute supermoto sessions per day does that include throwing it on a charger between sessions?

Does the power trail off slowly, like the first session is always the fastest or is the power consistent until the battery hit's a certain level, then power starts to go away?

I rarely get more than 4-5 - 15 minute sessions at a track day or even on race day running multiple classes, so the range is right at the point where my old bones would be ready to head home anyhow.

My only fear would be putting the plates on it and going out hoolin only to find myself stranded away from home with no way to charge it up. Could the charger cord fit in a back pack if you needed to quick charge it in a pinch? Does it need 110 or 220 for charging?
fasterfaster
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2/20/2012 10:25am
Rooster, that's 4 sessions without top off. If you have access to an outlet at the track and plug between sessions, you should be for the day you describe, though it depends on how fast you are (i.e. how much power you put down).

We've designed it to have consistent power delivery across the state of charge, so you shouldn't notice any deterioration.

The 110 charger is pretty compact, but it's still around 20lbs (which is why it's not built into the bike). You could haul it in a backpack, but you would definitely notice it. We also have a 220 charger, but you wouldn't want to haul that around. Down the road (2+ years) we hope to offer a downsized on-board 110 charger... it wouldn't be a full 1500W, but would allow you to hop from plug to plug a little easier and not add too much weight to the bike.
Rooster
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2/20/2012 10:46am
What is the deceleration like? Does it use engine braking for power generation or does it freewheel like a two stroke?

Could you tune it like a slipper clutch? Shoot, does it have a clutch? When I back it in now I usually just dump the clutch and let the slipper take over. Would it just be a matter of chopping the throttle to accomplish the same thing? I know it's not the fastest way around the track. It's just more fun to do. More smiles per mile as I like to say.

Right now the big issue for me would be the weight. I would expect the majority of the weight to be in the battery pack? Any chance you'll be able to get it down to the 220lb range? A supremely torquey, lightweight flickable bike with next to no maintenance would be my ideal ride.
bangmyhead
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2/20/2012 11:17am
I want one!
fasterfaster
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2/21/2012 6:03pm
Rooster wrote:
What is the deceleration like? Does it use engine braking for power generation or does it freewheel like a two stroke? Could you tune it like...
What is the deceleration like? Does it use engine braking for power generation or does it freewheel like a two stroke?

Could you tune it like a slipper clutch? Shoot, does it have a clutch? When I back it in now I usually just dump the clutch and let the slipper take over. Would it just be a matter of chopping the throttle to accomplish the same thing? I know it's not the fastest way around the track. It's just more fun to do. More smiles per mile as I like to say.

Right now the big issue for me would be the weight. I would expect the majority of the weight to be in the battery pack? Any chance you'll be able to get it down to the 220lb range? A supremely torquey, lightweight flickable bike with next to no maintenance would be my ideal ride.
Engine braking and throttle maps are both easily tunable, wirelessly. We do it from a laptop, but should have an android-based app by the time it hits market. Takes about a minute and we'll go through 3-5 of them with each test rider until we get the exact feel they want.

Right now, we run it with pretty light and consistent engine braking, similar to a slipper clutch in that it doesn't vary with engine speed. It's enough to settle the rear coming into corners, but leaves most of the rear end work to the brake. In this setup, it won't kick out the rear and back it in without a dab of brake. With the left hand brake option, this seems to be the hot setup to make you into a hero. Well, for me at least.

On the other side, you can make throttle response as sharp or progressive as you want. I'm a pussy with poor throttle control, so I prefer a real soft initial response and hard ramp-up at the end. Ryan Moore wanted instant power, so the curve we used for his shoot was basically a straight line. In either case, the feeling of direct control over the rear wheel is pretty awesome.

On weight, the only way we could get the weight that low would be to cut the range down, and we want to make sure we have enough battery on there for a pro to complete a full moto. I know everyone says this, but because the mass is so centralized, it really does feel much lighter than 250. Our first prototype was a bit overweight and it still felt way lighter than a (claimed) 245lbs 250 XCF-W. At production weight, I think the feel is really going to surprise people.
Derpin' DJ
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Newcastle, AU
2/21/2012 6:10pm
That is so sweet, being able to map the power and engine braking so easily.
2/21/2012 6:15pm
We got some of that.

Okay, don't take this the wrong way because I want one of your bikes but, who the hell are you marketing that to, the wheelie boyz?
P
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Greensboro, NC, USA
2/21/2012 6:20pm
I'd like to see what the moto version can do.


P
2/21/2012 6:24pm
P wrote:
I'd like to see what the moto version can do.


P
Exactly! This is a MX board.
fasterfaster
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2/21/2012 6:29pm
Okay, don't take this the wrong way because I want one of your bikes but, who the hell are you marketing that to, the wheelie boyz?
Don't hate on the wheelie boyz. Getting gnar at 12 o'clock is off the sicktor scale, bro.

Ha, no offense taken. We were just eager to take the thing out in SF while it was plated and on slicks. We've got some moto video coming out soon, and you can expect a whole lot more this Spring and Summer when it's running on the latest rev of the chassis.
fasterfaster
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2/21/2012 7:53pm Edited Date/Time 2/29/2012 3:07pm
I give in easily to peer pressure. You're seeing it here first. Video from our first, admittedly tentative, off-road test ride:
https://youtu.be/NRllNmeRbRI
edit: finally sorted out a music license.
P
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2/21/2012 7:56pm
WTF??? Video has been removed?


P
Xeno
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2/21/2012 8:00pm
Awww! What a tease! Let's see the moto footage.
fasterfaster
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San Francisco, CA, USA
2/21/2012 8:05pm
Ah shit. It was up for a minute and then Youtube had some kind of hiccup and dropped it. I'm re-uploading now and will edit the post above when it's done. Sorry about that.
gotwings
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2/21/2012 9:52pm
What track???
fasterfaster
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2/22/2012 9:00am
That video was shot at Club Moto in Livermore. Again, sorry for the delays in posting...
bangmyhead
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2/22/2012 9:04am
Where's it at?!?!

Can't wait to see it!
gotwings
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2/22/2012 9:07am
I thought you CNC guys were more computer info-tainment sav v y...
2/22/2012 9:18am
Who cares about the music, just post the raw video.

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