Manufacturers aren't to blame for high bike prices

mxknowitall
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mxknowitall
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 12:47pm
The Japanese Yen has appreciated 36% against the Dollar over the last 5 years. Add on annual inflation of 2% and you are looking at a 50% increase over the last 5 years that the manufacturers haven't seen a penny of. The manufacturers aren't making any more now than they were five years ago per bike, if anything, they are making less. Discuss.

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Highsider
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Highsider 1/17/2012 10:10am
1/17/2012 10:10am
That's why we keep you around.
Huh
huck
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huck 1/17/2012 10:14am
1/17/2012 10:14am
mxknowitall wrote:
The Japanese Yen has appreciated 36% against the Dollar over the last 5 years. Add on annual inflation of 2% and you are looking at a...
The Japanese Yen has appreciated 36% against the Dollar over the last 5 years. Add on annual inflation of 2% and you are looking at a 50% increase over the last 5 years that the manufacturers haven't seen a penny of. The manufacturers aren't making any more now than they were five years ago per bike, if anything, they are making less. Discuss.

Which would explain why they cost more now.... Think about it...it'll come to you.
lapper
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lapper 1/17/2012 10:15am
1/17/2012 10:15am Edited Date/Time 1/17/2012 10:21am
So 4-strokes caused the Dollar to fall 36% against the Yen in the last 5 years?
Saltybrad
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Saltybrad 1/17/2012 10:17am
1/17/2012 10:17am
Quanative easing, They're talking about a new round which will trash the value of the dollar even more. Where you see it the worst is putting the dollar against the failing Euro. (KTM)

The Shop

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Falcon
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Falcon 1/17/2012 10:18am
1/17/2012 10:18am
One of the "benefits" of printing more dollars without any correlation to a greater GDP is that each one is worth less.

I'm no economic expert, but I would guess this is happening with the dollar vs. almost every other currency.
mxknowitall
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mxknowitall 1/17/2012 10:19am
1/17/2012 10:19am
lapper wrote:
So 4-strokes caused the Dollar to fall 36% against the Yen in the last 5 years?
Yes, it's the 4 strokes fault. Just like global warming, our debt problem, and Stewart sucking it up this year.
mxknowitall
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mxknowitall 1/17/2012 10:22am
1/17/2012 10:22am
Falcon wrote:
One of the "benefits" of printing more dollars without any correlation to a greater GDP is that each one is worth less. I'm no economic expert...
One of the "benefits" of printing more dollars without any correlation to a greater GDP is that each one is worth less.

I'm no economic expert, but I would guess this is happening with the dollar vs. almost every other currency.
Dollar is only down about 3% against all currencies.
mxknowitall
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mxknowitall 1/17/2012 10:23am
1/17/2012 10:23am
Our debt situation is nothing compared to Japan's. We are in amazing shape compared to them.
njracer46
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njracer46 1/17/2012 10:24am
1/17/2012 10:24am
That's why I wait a few years and buy brand new left overs. Got my 07 crf250 in the summer of 2010 for 3500 out the door. Can't beat that with a stick. Im not a professional racer, I don't need the latest and greatest. After alittle tuning my carb bike doesn't have the dreaded crf bog
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Rooster 1/17/2012 10:28am
1/17/2012 10:28am
mxknowitall wrote:
Dollar is only down about 3% against all currencies.
You're down 50% to the Yen and the Canadian and Aussie Dollars.

It's got to be more than 3% across the board.
mxknowitall
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mxknowitall 1/17/2012 10:34am
1/17/2012 10:34am
mxknowitall wrote:
Dollar is only down about 3% against all currencies.
Rooster wrote:
You're down 50% to the Yen and the Canadian and Aussie Dollars.

It's got to be more than 3% across the board.
The 3% is on the Dollar Index which is weighed against a basket of currencies. The index is heavy toward the Euro so that offsets some of the depreciation.
lostboy819 1/17/2012 12:00pm
1/17/2012 12:00pm
mxknowitall wrote:
The Japanese Yen has appreciated 36% against the Dollar over the last 5 years. Add on annual inflation of 2% and you are looking at a...
The Japanese Yen has appreciated 36% against the Dollar over the last 5 years. Add on annual inflation of 2% and you are looking at a 50% increase over the last 5 years that the manufacturers haven't seen a penny of. The manufacturers aren't making any more now than they were five years ago per bike, if anything, they are making less. Discuss.

The answer to the question no one was asking.
Grieby54
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Grieby54 1/17/2012 12:06pm
1/17/2012 12:06pm
lostboy819 wrote:
The answer to the question no one was asking.
Right, because nobody ever accuses the four stroke of making this sport too expensive anymore.
ScottP
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ScottP 1/17/2012 12:36pm
1/17/2012 12:36pm
mxknowitall: Yes this is a very big factor when buying products from other countries. However, most large companies like motorcyle, automotive, food, etc. setup (in a simple term) payment plans to combat the effect of exchange rates to protect their projected income/expenses. This allows them to keep prices steady and plan ahead.
Bike prices have increased due to many factors. What I hear, and tend to agree with, is that parts are alot more expensive. The parts prices are what is pushing people out of the sport. Go look up the price of a cylinder off of a 250f or 450f. They cost as much as a 250 2-stroke cylinder. Why? You don't have to be a machinest to see there is more work involved with making a s-stroke cylinder compared to a 4-stroke cylinder.
My personal opinion on this (not any insider knowledge but just dealing with casting companies and manufacturers with my 9-5 job) The manufacturers want to sell bikes. They make the required amount of spare parts (There is a law that states parts must be supplied for a certain amount of years. This goes for cars too). I believe they assumed more aftermarket companies would enter the market being that there are so many companies making aftermarket stuff for 4-strokes in the auto and streetbike market. So they want to get top dollar for their parts that have to carry. The most expensive part to casting items such as a cylinder is the labor to swap out molds. Ever what for a backordered stock item? They wait for enough orders of that part to justify the labor to make the part. This happens with any type of amnufacturing. So if your making 2012 cylinders to put on new products why are you going to stop production to make 2008 cylinders? You need to wait to you have enough orders to justify the cost of running the old mold. Just my 2 cents

And BTW dont you think its strange when a dealership has a new bike for $8,600 and like 6 months later they are selling them for $6,800. This goes with any products in any industry. Just my opinion, don't by from that dealership. Go to a place that is willing to work with you no matter if the bike came out the day before or a year ago. Don't fall for that line " I'm selling it to you for what we buy it for!" Thats bull. They are a business, if they sold averything for what they got it for they wouldn't be able to pay for the 70 helmets hanging on the wall. Give the money to a dealership that is straight forward and willing to work with you.
steedmills 1/17/2012 12:53pm
1/17/2012 12:53pm Edited Date/Time 5/3/2012 2:57pm
.
burn1986
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burn1986 1/17/2012 12:59pm
1/17/2012 12:59pm
So you're saying they're more expensive now than if the yen hadn't fallen a lot like you said. BTW, funny looking flower steedmills.
Hando
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Hando 1/17/2012 1:44pm
1/17/2012 1:44pm
A slice of pizza used to cost about 1.00 in 2001

Now its 2 dollars


WERE FUCKED
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 1/17/2012 1:48pm
1/17/2012 1:48pm
$ Strokes Killed the Currency Markets!

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mxknowitall
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mxknowitall 1/17/2012 1:52pm
1/17/2012 1:52pm
ScottP wrote:
mxknowitall: Yes this is a very big factor when buying products from other countries. However, most large companies like motorcyle, automotive, food, etc. setup (in a...
mxknowitall: Yes this is a very big factor when buying products from other countries. However, most large companies like motorcyle, automotive, food, etc. setup (in a simple term) payment plans to combat the effect of exchange rates to protect their projected income/expenses. This allows them to keep prices steady and plan ahead.
Bike prices have increased due to many factors. What I hear, and tend to agree with, is that parts are alot more expensive. The parts prices are what is pushing people out of the sport. Go look up the price of a cylinder off of a 250f or 450f. They cost as much as a 250 2-stroke cylinder. Why? You don't have to be a machinest to see there is more work involved with making a s-stroke cylinder compared to a 4-stroke cylinder.
My personal opinion on this (not any insider knowledge but just dealing with casting companies and manufacturers with my 9-5 job) The manufacturers want to sell bikes. They make the required amount of spare parts (There is a law that states parts must be supplied for a certain amount of years. This goes for cars too). I believe they assumed more aftermarket companies would enter the market being that there are so many companies making aftermarket stuff for 4-strokes in the auto and streetbike market. So they want to get top dollar for their parts that have to carry. The most expensive part to casting items such as a cylinder is the labor to swap out molds. Ever what for a backordered stock item? They wait for enough orders of that part to justify the labor to make the part. This happens with any type of amnufacturing. So if your making 2012 cylinders to put on new products why are you going to stop production to make 2008 cylinders? You need to wait to you have enough orders to justify the cost of running the old mold. Just my 2 cents

And BTW dont you think its strange when a dealership has a new bike for $8,600 and like 6 months later they are selling them for $6,800. This goes with any products in any industry. Just my opinion, don't by from that dealership. Go to a place that is willing to work with you no matter if the bike came out the day before or a year ago. Don't fall for that line " I'm selling it to you for what we buy it for!" Thats bull. They are a business, if they sold averything for what they got it for they wouldn't be able to pay for the 70 helmets hanging on the wall. Give the money to a dealership that is straight forward and willing to work with you.
I've always heard the dealers don't make that much off of the bikes. It's the 70 helmets where they make money.

Shops are probably jacking up parts costs because you can't go without buying parts like you can with not buying a new bike.
mxknowitall
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mxknowitall 1/17/2012 1:54pm
1/17/2012 1:54pm
burn1986 wrote:
So you're saying they're more expensive now than if the yen hadn't fallen a lot like you said. BTW, funny looking flower steedmills.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 1/17/2012 1:55pm
1/17/2012 1:55pm
ScottP wrote:
mxknowitall: Yes this is a very big factor when buying products from other countries. However, most large companies like motorcyle, automotive, food, etc. setup (in a...
mxknowitall: Yes this is a very big factor when buying products from other countries. However, most large companies like motorcyle, automotive, food, etc. setup (in a simple term) payment plans to combat the effect of exchange rates to protect their projected income/expenses. This allows them to keep prices steady and plan ahead.
Bike prices have increased due to many factors. What I hear, and tend to agree with, is that parts are alot more expensive. The parts prices are what is pushing people out of the sport. Go look up the price of a cylinder off of a 250f or 450f. They cost as much as a 250 2-stroke cylinder. Why? You don't have to be a machinest to see there is more work involved with making a s-stroke cylinder compared to a 4-stroke cylinder.
My personal opinion on this (not any insider knowledge but just dealing with casting companies and manufacturers with my 9-5 job) The manufacturers want to sell bikes. They make the required amount of spare parts (There is a law that states parts must be supplied for a certain amount of years. This goes for cars too). I believe they assumed more aftermarket companies would enter the market being that there are so many companies making aftermarket stuff for 4-strokes in the auto and streetbike market. So they want to get top dollar for their parts that have to carry. The most expensive part to casting items such as a cylinder is the labor to swap out molds. Ever what for a backordered stock item? They wait for enough orders of that part to justify the labor to make the part. This happens with any type of amnufacturing. So if your making 2012 cylinders to put on new products why are you going to stop production to make 2008 cylinders? You need to wait to you have enough orders to justify the cost of running the old mold. Just my 2 cents

And BTW dont you think its strange when a dealership has a new bike for $8,600 and like 6 months later they are selling them for $6,800. This goes with any products in any industry. Just my opinion, don't by from that dealership. Go to a place that is willing to work with you no matter if the bike came out the day before or a year ago. Don't fall for that line " I'm selling it to you for what we buy it for!" Thats bull. They are a business, if they sold averything for what they got it for they wouldn't be able to pay for the 70 helmets hanging on the wall. Give the money to a dealership that is straight forward and willing to work with you.
mxknowitall wrote:
I've always heard the dealers don't make that much off of the bikes. It's the 70 helmets where they make money. Shops are probably jacking up...
I've always heard the dealers don't make that much off of the bikes. It's the 70 helmets where they make money.

Shops are probably jacking up parts costs because you can't go without buying parts like you can with not buying a new bike.
Shops w/ good Parts & Accessories Dept's are the ones that're doing OK.

The Web is making it a Helluva a Challenge for them.
Charles Bronson 1/17/2012 2:03pm
1/17/2012 2:03pm
i lived in Japan for 4 years, and I have been saying this OVER and OVER, but it falls on deaf ears. maybe i should have included a line graph?

Dont worry, Japans bubble is about to burst just like ours did in 08. prices will drop soon enough.
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peelout 1/17/2012 2:09pm
1/17/2012 2:09pm
lapper wrote:
So 4-strokes caused the Dollar to fall 36% against the Yen in the last 5 years?
silly, the dollar caused the greedy manufacturers to convince us we need EFI, SFF, and BUTTSX.

the BUTTSX comes without vaseline, courtesy of your equally greedy dealer
JustMX
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JustMX 1/18/2012 5:54am
1/18/2012 5:54am
Grieby54 wrote:
Right, because nobody ever accuses the four stroke of making this sport too expensive anymore.
So what this also means is that OEM parts cost more.

So instead of a 4 stroke rebuild costing $2500, it is now $3500, right?

That has absolutely nothing to do with the shape our sport is in.

and getting about half what you pay for a new 4 stroke when you go to sell it is just a bonus....

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