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Two guys build a Bultaco in their garage and everyone starts comparing it to the Honda and saying its will never sell...
The Japs have to close the doors for America to even try...
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And I wont get into a pissing competition about which British Engineering firms are or are not British owned, that's just pretty sad, the fact is that others may have been invested in these firms but they are still British through and through, if you wanna go around and call people morons or idiots for saying something you don't like you are probably in the wrong place and planet for that matter, ir's a discussion and my opinion is pretty valid. Oh and sure a lot of people work in the states - why wouldn't they? Have you seen the quality of life, cost of products, homes etc in comparison to many other countries?
And jokes about British computers -- OMG - stay on topic please, in my post I stated the comparison to "other sciences", maybe i am wrong but computer science and mechanical engineering are 2 different things and this whole post was about mechanical engineering....
It was never a competition between Britain and America - why turn it into one?
And my post wasn't a direct hit/attack but more of a statement of opinion from a Brit who is not looking to hide behind a moniker so grow up a little please.
To all those blinded by patriotism, which is easy to do and probably even easier when you come from the all singing all dancing ruler of the world, greatest of all time, #1 @ everything it does, never wrong and always right good ol US OF A - if America as a whole was that great at Engineering you would be in F1 or MOTO GP, the pinnacle of the subject whose materials and knowledge trickle through to us all at some point. To my knowledge you are not, you didn't even get a team in that was using materials and engineering from other countries because you couldn't compete AT THE MAXIMUM LEVEL OF INVESTMENT REQUIRED - pertaining to the quote from FreshTopEnd that was bang on the money.
Shit, even HRT made it in - how good do you feel now?
Kawasaki Motors Racing was the European subsidiary of Kawasaki Heavy Industries, which is located in Netherlands. It is responsible for managing the racing activities of the MotoGP team and any other motorcycle racing activities Kawasaki may enter in the future.
http://www.suterracing.com/motorsport.html
To answer a few of the questions posted above:
• Cobra IS a US based manufacturer. Not only do we serve our home market, but we export to Canada, Latin America, Europe, Russia, Australia, and more.
• I’m not sure what every individual’s definition of ‘Made in the USA’ is, but our NAFTA paperwork shows that on average, 80% of the content in our motorcycles is US based. In our factory, we design, develop, and construct our own engines (auto and multi-speed platforms), Chassis, Cartridge forks, Wheels, and Billet components (hubs, triple clamps, etc). We also build most of our own tooling for injection molds, permanent mold castings, sand castings, welding, machining, etc.
• We’re not entering the big bike market any time soon, however, the new (2011) AMA Homologation rules would make it relatively easy…For amateur racing, big bikes (above 114cc) don’t need any minimum number. It would be fun hitting the enlarge button and having a big bike ready to go…$6500 MSRP sounds pretty good to me…I can guaran-damn-tee you that it doesn’t cost any less to make a 65cc bike than it does to make a 250cc version…We just charge less because the market expects that. The extra margin would be nice (but the exponential increase in marketing costs would not be so good…).
• The US doesn’t know how to engineer and manufacture anything anymore? Come on…Boeing (the 777 will revolutionize air travel), Northrup (B2 bomber), Ford (best in class performance and fuel economy passenger car engines), Deka (iBot), Caterpillar (bad-ass earth movers)…The list goes on…Furthermore, with the Dollar sliding, Asian labor and energy costs increasing, and transportation rates skyrocketing, I see a lot more manufacturing coming back here that had been outsourced previously. I’m sure folks in other developed countries are seeing the same thing.
See you at the track…
Sean @ Cobra
But I would love to see a 125 or 250 cc bike made here.
Why don't you guys attack?
What's stopping you from making full sized bikes?
Now, about a 125/150.....,how could the AMA and MX Sports not make a push to re-establish the 125 class at the top level of the sport if an American company had an offering?
Pit Row
That would probably also require a move into dealerships to compete alongside the foreign brands, but I might be wrong.
We are on the attack...just not with big bikes yet. Also, we've unfortunately had to spend a considerable amount of time, money, and effort over the past two years 'attacking' the Lead Law...Thankfully, that ugly episode is behind us, and we can start putting more emphasis on the future.
Believe me...We love two-strokes too...Over the next week, we'll be showing off some industry-first technology that would work great on larger displacement engines.
How could the AMA and MX Sports not make a push to re-establish the 125 class at the top level of the sport if an American company had an offering
The AMA has worked like this in the past...A manufacturer comes to the door with a bike and requests that a class be established for it. I'm not a big proponent of doing business that way...Look at what happened when Honda tried that with their 150 (granted....there were some other circumstances). I'd much prefer a consensus approach where the rule making bodies work with the manufacturers on future class specifications, and then we go off and build bikes if we want to serve that segment of the market. IF the FIM, AMA, MX Sports, and Youthstream showed a strong future committment to the 125, then I would bet strongly that several manufacturers would show up with new models. There is too much chicken-and-egg going on right now IMO.
Sean @ Cobra
I guess my only observation is that whether a nation's engineers participate in F1 doesn't seem like a true metric of the quality of the engineers. It just reflects priorities. I don't have any doubt that there are engineers at the consumer auto manufacturers (let alone defense industries) every bit the measure of the best engineers in FI or MotoGP. They are simply devoted to different projects and resources. That said, if I was an engineer in a discipline that could be applied in F1 or MotoGp, or MX, I can't imagine any higher aspiration than to be in that place, but I don't know that that has to do with my national heritage anywhere near as much as my passion.
The only question would be whether or not folks would race a new class like you have spec'd above if they had the option of buying a more expensive and higher performance machine and racing it in an existing class. With the current state of the economy and the popularity of the vintage scene right now, my guess is that you are on to something...HOWEVER, no manufacturer in their right mind is going to build that kind of bike and hope that the AMA or FIM develops a class around it...The risk of being stuck with a product and no market to sell it into is too high.
You mean this doesn't count? HD WLA for WWII 70,000 produced. Seriously though I'd love to see USA manufacture a bike. (I just liked the above picture)
The buying public is not likely to pay 12-15k for an mx bike (maybe in very low quatities they might) if they can buy one that performs equally (or close to) as well for 9k from Japan or Austria.
Its hard to get seed or start up money with a business plan that doesnt include other products. If you can roll out a KTM or upsized Cobra plan you might be able to find some money for it. Remember that a few years ago KTM was in dire straits. They came out of it with little to no debt and capitalized on being able to start with a clean balance sheet.
I agree that we could definatley do it. But I also doubt that we will anytime soon. I hope I am wrong,
Hopefully KTM's expansion plans will see more investment and imput from US engineers, team personel etc.
Seriously I feel the 1986 AMA production only ruling has starved this industry of development these past 30 years. Look at all the major improvements, long travel suspension, water cooling, disc brakes etc that all happened in the sevemties & early 80's.
Had that free thinking been allowed to continue, who know's where we might be now??
Thanks to Sean from Cobra for giving us a manufacturers perspective!
and yet, the population is aging, and shrinking.
china's economy is food based, its volatile at best. as soon as the rest of the world pins them down and unpegs their currency, they'll go down the shitter faster than you can imagine. i have a lady friend in shianghai who works in trade, we skype everyday and she talks about this pretty often.
as far as the moon landing goes, it was a cold war era situation between 2 world powers. the only other alternative at that point was nuclear war. would you have rather had that?
please dont take this as a personal attack, but you strike me as a whiney college aged kid, who took one undergrad world politics course and now thinks he has a valid opinion.
do you have a passport? i'll bet you dont. ill bet you've never been anywhere worth mentioning. i dont appreciate your snide remark about the military either. i served two tours in iraq before i got out in 07. ive also been to every continent other than antartica. i currently live in a foreign country.
i would suggest you go get a passport and buy a ticket to Liberia. when you get there, burn your fucking passport and your return ticket please. im sick and tired of hearing americans who have never done ANYTHING but bitch about the soil they live on. fucking leave.
p.s. japan did not make this website possible. a bunch of college aged kids with a lot more gumption than yourself did, probably before you were born.
Lot of guys cut their teeth on one of these. That motor was the basis for HDs bikes that ran the National circuit
for about 30 years. Class C racing, that is the need for 200 to be built and available to the public started when these were the stuff. It was a Roadracer, a hillclimber, an Enduro, a dirttracker, and with that pic as proof, a warrior.
Back then, you bought a kit from the factory to make a racer. The full blown racers were kinda reserved for the factory team,
you had to have a National number to buy one, so a lot of guys built their own using this as a starting point.
Not to mention, the beginning of one of the largest segments in motorcycling to this day, The Chopper.
A bit more for those interested.......... [url]http://forums.cycleworld.com/showthread.php?t=251024[/url]
H
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