AMA Congress rule change proposals.....

wardy
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 3:12pm
have opinions? don't call AMA, but post them here, and or call your AMA congress delegate.


http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/asp/organizers/bulletins/2011/congr…

I am personally interested in your 150cc possibly being allowed in the 85cc Sr classes..........


We meet in a couple weeks.
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wardy
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9/22/2011 7:07am
this is AMATUER racing NOT PRO!
rocrac
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9/22/2011 7:18am Edited Date/Time 9/22/2011 7:33am
NM
`ol Ger
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9/22/2011 7:18am
Allow cc for cc in the tiddler class.
rocrac
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9/22/2011 7:22am
Well done. I hope this gets approved maybe those CA kids wont dominate the C classes.



2011 AMA Congress Competition Proposal
Advisory Committee: Motocross Committee


Chapter: 1 Section: 1.3 Paragraph: F.1 Page: 22


Proposal Number: 42


Submitted by: Michael Burkeen
District: 29

Congress Decision:
Proposal:
Riders will receive advancement points for participation in all AMA-sanctioned Motocross, Arenacross, Stadium Motocross (or any similar activity) meets.

Add following to sentence:

as well as specified non-AMA events.


AMA riders advance from one classification to the next through their successful participation in AMA-sanctioned meets. Advancement criteria will be reviewed annually by the Motocross Committee of AMA Congress or as needed by the Executive Committee.

Reason for proposal:
In an effort to keep riders from ducking AMA competition in order to keep a lower classification, results from other national level races will be incorporated into the RPV system

The Shop

9/22/2011 7:41am Edited Date/Time 9/22/2011 7:43am
here are a few things that jumped out at me and made me go "huh? to what purpose?"

Stock Rule Changes:

Add to the Stock chart as items that cannot be changed or modified:

- Brake rotors
- Foot pegs ???? seriously? I can easily see the rest, but foot pegs? makes zero sense. This would is exactly like saying you cant change handlebar bends or type and grips. This should be allowed, just like said handlebar.
- Radiators
- Back fire screen
- Sub Frame
- Brake lines
- Brake master cylinders
- EFI throttle body

Right under that... you include Grip tape and frame guards as "not allowed in the stock class"...? makes zero sense.
wardy
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9/22/2011 7:45am
we just had a discussion in here about this. tweaking the RPV to make it work better is the best way to level the playing field. I agree with mike on this one for sure as we have talked about it many times.

Personally, I would like to see ANY rider who wants to compete for the AMA national amatuer championship, should be mandatory to race at least 6 AMA races in order to be "qualified" in the class in which they want to race. This way the RPV would be utitlized to scrutinize thier ability. Any 6 races but before they can qualify they ahve to have that. not sure the how to track that, but it sure would help that non ama rider advantage that is out there right now.
wardy
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9/22/2011 7:47am
Please realize these are just proposals and we go over this in detail. many things never see the light of day and any congress delegate can submit his/her ideas.

foot pegs don't matter, but also realize that it's "STOCK" classes which in the real world not many tracks run them only the 50cc stuff.
9/22/2011 8:15am Edited Date/Time 9/22/2011 8:18am
I understand Wardy, it was just something that jumped out at me and made me go huh?!?

if I were "king for a day" as far as amatuer mx racing is concerned, there is one thing I would do. I would make expert (A class) an amatuer class, no money, just a class distinction. There is a difference between Pro (professional) and Expert (high level of skill). A professional earns money as a living, an expert is someone highly skilled at an activity or area of knowledge.

I bring this up because in the am national level, you go from a C rider to the B group, and often the B riders are the fastest on the track. Where this comes into play is at the local level, there isnt any continuity. At a local level, you go from a beginner (6 months racing experience usually) to a novice. Then you start winning novice, move up at a local level to intermediate, and thats the cap. Point is, when moving from the local to the national level, a local B rider will typically get ruined by an am nat C rider. Basically, there is no way an intermediate rider should go from intermediate to Pro, thats my huh? You are an expert rider, stuck in a class to keep amatuer eligibility.

You should go C, B, A, then pro at 16/18 with A still considered amatuer because it is, you wouldnt be racing for money. Just bugs me that you go from a novice 1 year, to an intermediate the next year, and the day after LL's you step into a factory rig. Plus, imo, this would help "sandbagging" You were fast enough as a novice to be moved up, but you are WAY off the pace in the current intermediates class. This gives more of a bridge. You win C, next year, you move up to B, and arent racing 4 or 5 guys that can win the A/Pro class. Plus, you take an 80 expert rider, his only move is to the B class when he hits the big bikes. he has one class to goto, and its the deep end of the pool. This setup gives a 12 or 13 yo kid 2 levels to progress. he has time.

Also, I am a fan of 18 years old to turn pro for 1 huge reason alot dont consider: body physique maturity. At 16, and we have seen this alot, these guys bodies just arent capable of handling what their right wrist can do. Pastrana and Reynard instantly come to mind. its one thing to run 5 or 6 am nat races a year at that speed vs running sx and mx for a season at a higher speed for a longer time. Robbie didnt get hurt near as much from 13 thru 16. His first race he breaks his wrist without crashing. By the time he hit 18, his body was... beat up, and more injury prone even though it was physically more capable to handle the rigors or a pro season, but because of previous injuries, just a wreck. imo, it helps them more at 40 or 50. 2 years, as a child/kid isnt going to kill anyone. The speed is there in rare cases, but typically, their bodies just arent ready for 30+2 or SX.
Foster576
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9/22/2011 8:38am
Just some advice. You AMA guys might want to start trying to save some tracks and riding areas for us first or there wont be any tracks or races for your "great proposals." Whistling There are seriously much bigger problems with our sport than this stuff.

Ah yes and I remeber racing the stock class and those frame guards and skidplates gave me so much more horsepower it was an unbelievable advantage.
lumpy790
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9/22/2011 9:39am
33
Proposed Class:
The basic amateur motocross class would be a �Women�s 250 A�
The displacement would be limited to 250cc 4-stroke or 125cc 2-stroke. Stock bore and stroke.
Women who are currently participating anywhere as a �motocross professional� would not be eligible for the amateur motocross national championship class, specifically Loretta Lynn�s or the current MX Championship venue.
Eligibility as described
Eligibility:
Women who have not had a top 10 f

I do not agree with this

35
Addition-
Section 1.2(D), pg 15
AMA may conduct random teardowns at Regional or National level events


45
As a participant in an AMA motocross meet a rider is expected to compete to the best of their ability. If a rider attempts in any way to influence their race results by not competing (i.e. sandbagging) they could be subject to disqualification by the referee or a protest from other riders. If it is determined by the referee or protest process that a rider did attempt to influence their results the rider will be disqualified from the meet and could be subject to disciplinary action from the AMA o

opening a big can of worms


49 & 50

contradict them self's?


51
Add after chart:

Regional, Qualifiers and select national events (Spring Classic, Freestone Spring Championship, GNC Finals, World Mini Grand Prix, Ponca City Grand National Championships, Branson MX, Winter National Olympics) will be awarded RPV advancement points at a level of 1.5 X the chart points.

Loretta Lynn's will be awarded points at 2 times the chart points.

Were the regionals counted before?


54
Addition-
to Sec 1.3(F), #10, pg 24 or add this after Sec 1.3, #8, pg 23:
No rider is to be classified as a Novice (C) rider if that rider has placed in the top three (3) overall finishing position in any District and/or State Championship meet in any previous year in any class.

I disagree with this rule as it makes the C class into the beginner class. Let the flaming begin.
Sondy132001
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9/22/2011 9:52am
rocrac wrote:
Well done. I hope this gets approved maybe those CA kids wont dominate the C classes. 2011 AMA Congress Competition Proposal Advisory Committee: Motocross Committee Chapter...
Well done. I hope this gets approved maybe those CA kids wont dominate the C classes.



2011 AMA Congress Competition Proposal
Advisory Committee: Motocross Committee


Chapter: 1 Section: 1.3 Paragraph: F.1 Page: 22


Proposal Number: 42


Submitted by: Michael Burkeen
District: 29

Congress Decision:
Proposal:
Riders will receive advancement points for participation in all AMA-sanctioned Motocross, Arenacross, Stadium Motocross (or any similar activity) meets.

Add following to sentence:

as well as specified non-AMA events.


AMA riders advance from one classification to the next through their successful participation in AMA-sanctioned meets. Advancement criteria will be reviewed annually by the Motocross Committee of AMA Congress or as needed by the Executive Committee.

Reason for proposal:
In an effort to keep riders from ducking AMA competition in order to keep a lower classification, results from other national level races will be incorporated into the RPV system
rocrac wrote: Well done. I hope this gets approved maybe those CA kids wont dominate the C classes.

You sound cranky !

S
rocrac
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9/22/2011 10:01am
rocrac wrote:
Well done. I hope this gets approved maybe those CA kids wont dominate the C classes. 2011 AMA Congress Competition Proposal Advisory Committee: Motocross Committee Chapter...
Well done. I hope this gets approved maybe those CA kids wont dominate the C classes.



2011 AMA Congress Competition Proposal
Advisory Committee: Motocross Committee


Chapter: 1 Section: 1.3 Paragraph: F.1 Page: 22


Proposal Number: 42


Submitted by: Michael Burkeen
District: 29

Congress Decision:
Proposal:
Riders will receive advancement points for participation in all AMA-sanctioned Motocross, Arenacross, Stadium Motocross (or any similar activity) meets.

Add following to sentence:

as well as specified non-AMA events.


AMA riders advance from one classification to the next through their successful participation in AMA-sanctioned meets. Advancement criteria will be reviewed annually by the Motocross Committee of AMA Congress or as needed by the Executive Committee.

Reason for proposal:
In an effort to keep riders from ducking AMA competition in order to keep a lower classification, results from other national level races will be incorporated into the RPV system
rocrac wrote: Well done. I hope this gets approved maybe those CA kids wont dominate the C classes.

You sound cranky !

S
Ha I knew you would come out to play I was being a smart ass.
sandtl
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9/22/2011 10:11am
Change chart from:

85cc 9-11 79cc-85cc 2 stroke
85cc 12-13 79cc-85cc 2 stroke
85cc 14-15 79cc-85cc 2 stroke



To:
85cc 9-11 79cc-85cc 2 stroke
85cc 12-13 79cc-85cc 2 stroke
85cc 12-15 79cc-85cc 2 stroke 150cc 4 stroke

Vote this proposal down. It should be CC for CC. Not doing this, has ruined Pro Racing.
Mod Killer
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9/22/2011 10:19am
I understand Wardy, it was just something that jumped out at me and made me go huh?!? if I were "king for a day" as far...
I understand Wardy, it was just something that jumped out at me and made me go huh?!?

if I were "king for a day" as far as amatuer mx racing is concerned, there is one thing I would do. I would make expert (A class) an amatuer class, no money, just a class distinction. There is a difference between Pro (professional) and Expert (high level of skill). A professional earns money as a living, an expert is someone highly skilled at an activity or area of knowledge.

I bring this up because in the am national level, you go from a C rider to the B group, and often the B riders are the fastest on the track. Where this comes into play is at the local level, there isnt any continuity. At a local level, you go from a beginner (6 months racing experience usually) to a novice. Then you start winning novice, move up at a local level to intermediate, and thats the cap. Point is, when moving from the local to the national level, a local B rider will typically get ruined by an am nat C rider. Basically, there is no way an intermediate rider should go from intermediate to Pro, thats my huh? You are an expert rider, stuck in a class to keep amatuer eligibility.

You should go C, B, A, then pro at 16/18 with A still considered amatuer because it is, you wouldnt be racing for money. Just bugs me that you go from a novice 1 year, to an intermediate the next year, and the day after LL's you step into a factory rig. Plus, imo, this would help "sandbagging" You were fast enough as a novice to be moved up, but you are WAY off the pace in the current intermediates class. This gives more of a bridge. You win C, next year, you move up to B, and arent racing 4 or 5 guys that can win the A/Pro class. Plus, you take an 80 expert rider, his only move is to the B class when he hits the big bikes. he has one class to goto, and its the deep end of the pool. This setup gives a 12 or 13 yo kid 2 levels to progress. he has time.

Also, I am a fan of 18 years old to turn pro for 1 huge reason alot dont consider: body physique maturity. At 16, and we have seen this alot, these guys bodies just arent capable of handling what their right wrist can do. Pastrana and Reynard instantly come to mind. its one thing to run 5 or 6 am nat races a year at that speed vs running sx and mx for a season at a higher speed for a longer time. Robbie didnt get hurt near as much from 13 thru 16. His first race he breaks his wrist without crashing. By the time he hit 18, his body was... beat up, and more injury prone even though it was physically more capable to handle the rigors or a pro season, but because of previous injuries, just a wreck. imo, it helps them more at 40 or 50. 2 years, as a child/kid isnt going to kill anyone. The speed is there in rare cases, but typically, their bodies just arent ready for 30+2 or SX.
excellent excellent excellet post.

very well articulated. wardy, please take this into strong consideration.
Sondy132001
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9/22/2011 10:31am
rocrac wrote:
Well done. I hope this gets approved maybe those CA kids wont dominate the C classes. 2011 AMA Congress Competition Proposal Advisory Committee: Motocross Committee Chapter...
Well done. I hope this gets approved maybe those CA kids wont dominate the C classes.



2011 AMA Congress Competition Proposal
Advisory Committee: Motocross Committee


Chapter: 1 Section: 1.3 Paragraph: F.1 Page: 22


Proposal Number: 42


Submitted by: Michael Burkeen
District: 29

Congress Decision:
Proposal:
Riders will receive advancement points for participation in all AMA-sanctioned Motocross, Arenacross, Stadium Motocross (or any similar activity) meets.

Add following to sentence:

as well as specified non-AMA events.


AMA riders advance from one classification to the next through their successful participation in AMA-sanctioned meets. Advancement criteria will be reviewed annually by the Motocross Committee of AMA Congress or as needed by the Executive Committee.

Reason for proposal:
In an effort to keep riders from ducking AMA competition in order to keep a lower classification, results from other national level races will be incorporated into the RPV system
rocrac wrote: Well done. I hope this gets approved maybe those CA kids wont dominate the C classes.

You sound cranky !

S
rocrac wrote:
Ha I knew you would come out to play I was being a smart ass.
ok I forgive you, cheating happens all over not just here Wink

S
Sondy132001
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9/22/2011 10:34am
I understand Wardy, it was just something that jumped out at me and made me go huh?!? if I were "king for a day" as far...
I understand Wardy, it was just something that jumped out at me and made me go huh?!?

if I were "king for a day" as far as amatuer mx racing is concerned, there is one thing I would do. I would make expert (A class) an amatuer class, no money, just a class distinction. There is a difference between Pro (professional) and Expert (high level of skill). A professional earns money as a living, an expert is someone highly skilled at an activity or area of knowledge.

I bring this up because in the am national level, you go from a C rider to the B group, and often the B riders are the fastest on the track. Where this comes into play is at the local level, there isnt any continuity. At a local level, you go from a beginner (6 months racing experience usually) to a novice. Then you start winning novice, move up at a local level to intermediate, and thats the cap. Point is, when moving from the local to the national level, a local B rider will typically get ruined by an am nat C rider. Basically, there is no way an intermediate rider should go from intermediate to Pro, thats my huh? You are an expert rider, stuck in a class to keep amatuer eligibility.

You should go C, B, A, then pro at 16/18 with A still considered amatuer because it is, you wouldnt be racing for money. Just bugs me that you go from a novice 1 year, to an intermediate the next year, and the day after LL's you step into a factory rig. Plus, imo, this would help "sandbagging" You were fast enough as a novice to be moved up, but you are WAY off the pace in the current intermediates class. This gives more of a bridge. You win C, next year, you move up to B, and arent racing 4 or 5 guys that can win the A/Pro class. Plus, you take an 80 expert rider, his only move is to the B class when he hits the big bikes. he has one class to goto, and its the deep end of the pool. This setup gives a 12 or 13 yo kid 2 levels to progress. he has time.

Also, I am a fan of 18 years old to turn pro for 1 huge reason alot dont consider: body physique maturity. At 16, and we have seen this alot, these guys bodies just arent capable of handling what their right wrist can do. Pastrana and Reynard instantly come to mind. its one thing to run 5 or 6 am nat races a year at that speed vs running sx and mx for a season at a higher speed for a longer time. Robbie didnt get hurt near as much from 13 thru 16. His first race he breaks his wrist without crashing. By the time he hit 18, his body was... beat up, and more injury prone even though it was physically more capable to handle the rigors or a pro season, but because of previous injuries, just a wreck. imo, it helps them more at 40 or 50. 2 years, as a child/kid isnt going to kill anyone. The speed is there in rare cases, but typically, their bodies just arent ready for 30+2 or SX.
Mod Killer wrote:
excellent excellent excellet post.

very well articulated. wardy, please take this into strong consideration.
Rick Johnson and Shaun Kalos were Pros at 13, and kicked ass. Beginners generally run a year or less, move to Junior/novice, you get about 2 years there, then Intermediate, hopefully another 2 years, then go Pro. So that's 5 years n the just the big bikes alone, most these kids have 50, 65 and 85 experience too !

S
Mod Killer
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9/22/2011 10:57am
sondy, i know youve been to local races around here, how many people sign up for A/Pro....two....five on a good day.

born2slow perfectly articulated what i havent been able too. which is that if A was a amateur class, then B and C (and beginner for that matter) might not be so backlogged with sandbaggers. and we might see more people looking to go enter their local races.

as it stands right now, you have racers who have been racing waaaay longer than 1 year in beginner, and C class kids that have been racing waaay longer than 2 years. go to a local race in socal, the beginners jump every jump, and the C kids are scrubbing jumps, and the lap times to the C & B arent any different. no person in their right mind watching a local race would ever want to go buy a bike and enter a race. its too intimidating. if the beginners were true beginners, as in rolling the jumps and falling over in corners, the sport would be so much more inviting.

i understand your point about rick johnson and whatnot.....but look at it this way.....the proposed changes do not in any way shape or form slow down the development of tomorrows stars. but the proposed changes would help get new blood into the sport.
Sondy132001
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9/22/2011 11:04am
Mod Killer wrote:
sondy, i know youve been to local races around here, how many people sign up for A/Pro....two....five on a good day. born2slow perfectly articulated what i...
sondy, i know youve been to local races around here, how many people sign up for A/Pro....two....five on a good day.

born2slow perfectly articulated what i havent been able too. which is that if A was a amateur class, then B and C (and beginner for that matter) might not be so backlogged with sandbaggers. and we might see more people looking to go enter their local races.

as it stands right now, you have racers who have been racing waaaay longer than 1 year in beginner, and C class kids that have been racing waaay longer than 2 years. go to a local race in socal, the beginners jump every jump, and the C kids are scrubbing jumps, and the lap times to the C & B arent any different. no person in their right mind watching a local race would ever want to go buy a bike and enter a race. its too intimidating. if the beginners were true beginners, as in rolling the jumps and falling over in corners, the sport would be so much more inviting.

i understand your point about rick johnson and whatnot.....but look at it this way.....the proposed changes do not in any way shape or form slow down the development of tomorrows stars. but the proposed changes would help get new blood into the sport.
So you're saying add another class ? You think if you add, expert, there will be more riders, entice them as you say ? Intermediate to Expert, then to Pro ? and no $$ for the expert class ? I'll ask around, I got plenty of Intermediate/pro friends, current and past who would throw in their 2 cents...and let ya know about my survey.

S
Mod Killer
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9/22/2011 11:23am Edited Date/Time 9/22/2011 11:29am
yes, no $$$ to the expert class. if its amateur, then by definition, its amatuer as in no money.

you dont need to ask your intermediate/pro friends. ask yourself, if you were thinking about going to buy a bike and start racing, and you went and watched a moto of beginner or C class, would it look like something you could compete at? the answer is obvious.

i think the problem starts at the top. when you have kids who have been racing their whole lives move up to the big bikes, they all can ride pretty decent. the fastest, expert level kids go to B for a year. and the others go to C. right there you have the problem. a kid like cincarillo is in no way shape or form a "intermediate" level rider. but we cannot tell him he has to go straight from 80's to the A/Pro class. so he races B. and any true B rider wants nothing to do with AC so they stay in C. its a domino effect.


honestly, i dont see what asking top level intermediates/pro amateurs is going to tell you. the system doesnt affect them one way or the other.

not everyone has been riding/racing dirtbikes their whole lives. for many, and 250f is the first bike they ever buy. in a sport where local racing is dying a slow death, i would think that making the sport more inviting would be paramount.
Sondy132001
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9/22/2011 11:33am
Mod Killer wrote:
yes, no $$$ to the expert class. if its amateur, then by definition, its amatuer as in no money. you dont need to ask your intermediate/pro...
yes, no $$$ to the expert class. if its amateur, then by definition, its amatuer as in no money.

you dont need to ask your intermediate/pro friends. ask yourself, if you were thinking about going to buy a bike and start racing, and you went and watched a moto of beginner or C class, would it look like something you could compete at? the answer is obvious.

i think the problem starts at the top. when you have kids who have been racing their whole lives move up to the big bikes, they all can ride pretty decent. the fastest, expert level kids go to B for a year. and the others go to C. right there you have the problem. a kid like cincarillo is in no way shape or form a "intermediate" level rider. but we cannot tell him he has to go straight from 80's to the A/Pro class. so he races B. and any true B rider wants nothing to do with AC so they stay in C. its a domino effect.


honestly, i dont see what asking top level intermediates/pro amateurs is going to tell you. the system doesnt affect them one way or the other.

not everyone has been riding/racing dirtbikes their whole lives. for many, and 250f is the first bike they ever buy. in a sport where local racing is dying a slow death, i would think that making the sport more inviting would be paramount.
Granite it was the 80's but I most of my guys go from mini expert to 125 pro, see you got it all wrong, it's not the class, it's the size bike they are going to, in my eyes, 85 (2stroke) to 250f (4stroke) really ?? We got classes coming out our ass, we need bikes that work for kids to move up, that's what's intimidating.

S
Mod Killer
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9/22/2011 11:36am
i dont think you will have anyone argue with you there.....the jump from 85cc to 250f is indeed too steep.

but i dunno how you fix that. the 125 class is still offered. and the bike is still on showroom floors. its up to the parents to see the obvious their.
9/22/2011 11:50am
I wrote a few of these (Mike Burkeen) so I will try to comment on the motivation behind them. Just a quick background so you know where I am coming from. I spent my youth (the 70s) racing MX in District 18 in MO and IL. I quit for 20 years to go to college etc and started again in my late thirties. My son started a few years after that and is a decent amateur. I also worked for Cobra Motorcycles managing their sales a racing efforts for a few years. Now that you know where I am coming from:

Allow cc for cc in the tiddler class.

This was done three years ago. It is also the same for the 250 class.

if I were "king for a day" as far as amatuer mx racing is concerned, there is one thing I would do. I would make expert (A class) an amatuer class, no money, just a class distinction. There is a difference between Pro (professional) and Expert (high level of skill). A professional earns money as a living, an expert is someone highly skilled at an activity or area of knowledge.
I think this would be a big mistake and have unintended consequences. First of all, I don't know of a single person who does not go to the A class because there are pros there. The reason a lot of people turn A is to get the right to earn money. Also, if you pull out all of the A (amateur) riders from the pro class, it will disappear as there will be no purse money left in the A(Pro) class.

We already have the ability to do random teardowns, they just aren't that popular.

I agree it will be tough to judge whether someone is competing at theie best.

Not sure what they are trying to accomplish with the womans proposal.

The non-AMA nationals like Ponca have never been counted before. The regionals have always been counted, but this proposal weights them more heavily than a local race because of the level of competition. Both are proposed to make it harder to duck AMA races and sandbag.
rocrac
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9/22/2011 12:03pm
SlowOldGuy wrote:
I wrote a few of these (Mike Burkeen) so I will try to comment on the motivation behind them. Just a quick background so you know...
I wrote a few of these (Mike Burkeen) so I will try to comment on the motivation behind them. Just a quick background so you know where I am coming from. I spent my youth (the 70s) racing MX in District 18 in MO and IL. I quit for 20 years to go to college etc and started again in my late thirties. My son started a few years after that and is a decent amateur. I also worked for Cobra Motorcycles managing their sales a racing efforts for a few years. Now that you know where I am coming from:

Allow cc for cc in the tiddler class.

This was done three years ago. It is also the same for the 250 class.

if I were "king for a day" as far as amatuer mx racing is concerned, there is one thing I would do. I would make expert (A class) an amatuer class, no money, just a class distinction. There is a difference between Pro (professional) and Expert (high level of skill). A professional earns money as a living, an expert is someone highly skilled at an activity or area of knowledge.
I think this would be a big mistake and have unintended consequences. First of all, I don't know of a single person who does not go to the A class because there are pros there. The reason a lot of people turn A is to get the right to earn money. Also, if you pull out all of the A (amateur) riders from the pro class, it will disappear as there will be no purse money left in the A(Pro) class.

We already have the ability to do random teardowns, they just aren't that popular.

I agree it will be tough to judge whether someone is competing at theie best.

Not sure what they are trying to accomplish with the womans proposal.

The non-AMA nationals like Ponca have never been counted before. The regionals have always been counted, but this proposal weights them more heavily than a local race because of the level of competition. Both are proposed to make it harder to duck AMA races and sandbag.
Well said. In fact, all money including contingency should be for A/Pro riders only...that would cut down on people sandbagging for contingency money.
Mod Killer
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9/22/2011 12:09pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2011 12:10pm
"if I were "king for a day" as far as amatuer mx racing is concerned, there is one thing I would do. I would make expert (A class) an amatuer class, no money, just a class distinction. There is a difference between Pro (professional) and Expert (high level of skill). A professional earns money as a living, an expert is someone highly skilled at an activity or area of knowledge."

"I think this would be a big mistake and have unintended consequences. First of all, I don't know of a single person who does not go to the A class because there are pros there. The reason a lot of people turn A is to get the right to earn money. Also, if you pull out all of the A (amateur) riders from the pro class, it will disappear as there will be no purse money left in the A(Pro) class."



you dont know of a single person who does not go to the A/Pro class because of the pros? how about every single top 85cc kid. we wont see AC go straight to A/Pro. he shouldnt have too, and he wont. but he is far from a "intermediate"

if all the A amateurs are pulled from the pro class, and then there is nobody left in the pro class, what does that tell you? first of all, at the local races i frequent, there already isnt any legitimate purse money in the A/Pro class. there are very few entries. and besides, if you want to get paid, "pros" race the nationals/arenacross/supercross/endurocross etc. i dont see why local races or "amateur" nationals should be catered to "pros".


all that said, i appreciate you posting here and discussing this sorta stuff out in the open. thankyou. regardless of whatever is decided, open discussions like this add to the transparency, credibility, and legitimacy of any decision.
rocrac
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9/22/2011 12:21pm
Mod Killer wrote:
"if I were "king for a day" as far as amatuer mx racing is concerned, there is one thing I would do. I would make expert...
"if I were "king for a day" as far as amatuer mx racing is concerned, there is one thing I would do. I would make expert (A class) an amatuer class, no money, just a class distinction. There is a difference between Pro (professional) and Expert (high level of skill). A professional earns money as a living, an expert is someone highly skilled at an activity or area of knowledge."

"I think this would be a big mistake and have unintended consequences. First of all, I don't know of a single person who does not go to the A class because there are pros there. The reason a lot of people turn A is to get the right to earn money. Also, if you pull out all of the A (amateur) riders from the pro class, it will disappear as there will be no purse money left in the A(Pro) class."



you dont know of a single person who does not go to the A/Pro class because of the pros? how about every single top 85cc kid. we wont see AC go straight to A/Pro. he shouldnt have too, and he wont. but he is far from a "intermediate"

if all the A amateurs are pulled from the pro class, and then there is nobody left in the pro class, what does that tell you? first of all, at the local races i frequent, there already isnt any legitimate purse money in the A/Pro class. there are very few entries. and besides, if you want to get paid, "pros" race the nationals/arenacross/supercross/endurocross etc. i dont see why local races or "amateur" nationals should be catered to "pros".


all that said, i appreciate you posting here and discussing this sorta stuff out in the open. thankyou. regardless of whatever is decided, open discussions like this add to the transparency, credibility, and legitimacy of any decision.
if you want to get paid, "pros" race the nationals/arenacross/supercross/endurocross etc.

You're kidding right?
`ol Ger
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9/22/2011 12:26pm
So you are telling me that a 250 2-stroke can race in the Lites class in amateur races?

It seems to me that 2-strokes would dominate the class if that were the case.
Sondy132001
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9/22/2011 12:27pm
rocrac wrote:
if you want to get paid, "pros" race the nationals/arenacross/supercross/endurocross etc.

You're kidding right?
^^^ What he said ! Now you're trying to take business away from me, I'm not a national or supercross or arenacross or endurocross, but I put on races where Pros race.

S
Sondy132001
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9/22/2011 12:29pm
`ol Ger wrote:
So you are telling me that a 250 2-stroke can race in the Lites class in amateur races? It seems to me that 2-strokes would dominate...
So you are telling me that a 250 2-stroke can race in the Lites class in amateur races?

It seems to me that 2-strokes would dominate the class if that were the case.
I don't think that's right ?? 125 2-strokes race with 250f's and 250 2-strokes race with 450f's.

S
9/22/2011 12:34pm
`ol Ger wrote:
So you are telling me that a 250 2-stroke can race in the Lites class in amateur races? It seems to me that 2-strokes would dominate...
So you are telling me that a 250 2-stroke can race in the Lites class in amateur races?

It seems to me that 2-strokes would dominate the class if that were the case.
I don't think that's right ?? 125 2-strokes race with 250f's and 250 2-strokes race with 450f's.

S
Sondy,

In all AMA amateur racing the 4 strokes are given no advantage. 250 2 strokes run in the lites class at Lorettas in every class except for schoolboy 2. 125s do not race against 250Fs in AMA amateur competition.

Mike
Mod Killer
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9/22/2011 12:36pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2011 12:41pm
^^^ What he said ! Now you're trying to take business away from me, I'm not a national or supercross or arenacross or endurocross, but I...
^^^ What he said ! Now you're trying to take business away from me, I'm not a national or supercross or arenacross or endurocross, but I put on races where Pros race.

S
and considering you have to pay the pro's a purse, do you actually make any money off of them? im guessing you pay 100% payback or something like that?

wouldnt you make more if A was an amateur class? as slowoldguy said, if it was a amateur class, there would be nobody in the pro class. so if very few or any pro's even show up, why pay out? why not call it A (amatuer)?


i just dont get it. in any business, getting a new customer is waaay harder and more expensive than retaining a existing customer. yet the mx system caters to those who already are addicted to the sport. i'll say it again, i would think that a sport, that is dying at the grassroots level, would be doing everything in its power to create a better system against what is the universally agreed upon problem that is sandbagging. instead, are we really trying to cater to ''pros" at amateur events? it just doesnt make sense.

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