What would you rather have?

neverwasfastenuf 9/21/2011 3:40pm
9/21/2011 3:40pm
flyinb501 wrote:
Awesome info guys, thanks!

Newmann, where is that KX located? Looks extremely clean!
newmann wrote:
Southeast Texas, plus I know how to build a proper crate. Could even build a crate to hold two! [img]http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt171/duc-man97/2002CR250KX250001.jpg[/img] [img]http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt171/duc-man97/2002CR250KX250004.jpg[/img] 2002 CR250 bought from a...
Southeast Texas, plus I know how to build a proper crate. Could even build a crate to hold two!





2002 CR250 bought from a 70 something year old man. It was one of those all originals down to the gips, chain and tires. Tore it down and cleaned everything. Went back together with lots of new stuff. Too much to list. $2400.00
Both of those look very nice and the price seems fair. Wish I was at the point to get back into riding. Put a Gorr oversize kit on either and be a happy man.
Track and Trail 9/21/2011 3:40pm
9/21/2011 3:40pm
Track and Trail wrote:
Check the lever placement. If they're way up or way down the guy doesn't know wtf he's doing - or he's a pro with weird ass...
Check the lever placement. If they're way up or way down the guy doesn't know wtf he's doing - or he's a pro with weird ass taste.

Ask what he sets his sag at. If he doesn't know he doesn't know wtf he's doing.

Pull in the levers. If the brake is spongey or the clutch pulls abnormally hard he doesn't know wtf he's doing.

If he doesn't know wtf he's doing to set up a bike, he probably doesn't know how to properly maintain a bike either.
raddad wrote:
And the hole in that theory is a "Wally" bike..Just because he doesn't know how to set up a bike for MX does not mean its...
And the hole in that theory is a "Wally" bike..Just because he doesn't know how to set up a bike for MX does not mean its beat! Its easy to spot a bike that's never been beat, maintained correctly and rarely ridden, I would go with a Wally bike any daySmile
No, it means if it has been beat the guy wouldn't know the difference, or how to fix it if he did.

Also, it's not always easy to spot a bike that's barely been ridden. Guys will buff, shine, change plastic, put on new tires, add new spockets, and even paint worn parts to fool you.

It's even harder to tell if it's been maintained correctly. Mr. trail guy's bike might look like it only has twenty hours on it, but the same oil was probably run in it up until the day he put it up for sale

Unless you know the guy, a good looking bike is no guarantee that the internals match what the externals proclaim.

"Wally" bikes are no better, whatever a "wally" bike is.

I would take a bike from a guy that understood bikes anyday Smile

raddad
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raddad 9/21/2011 4:29pm
9/21/2011 4:29pm
Track and Trail wrote:
Check the lever placement. If they're way up or way down the guy doesn't know wtf he's doing - or he's a pro with weird ass...
Check the lever placement. If they're way up or way down the guy doesn't know wtf he's doing - or he's a pro with weird ass taste.

Ask what he sets his sag at. If he doesn't know he doesn't know wtf he's doing.

Pull in the levers. If the brake is spongey or the clutch pulls abnormally hard he doesn't know wtf he's doing.

If he doesn't know wtf he's doing to set up a bike, he probably doesn't know how to properly maintain a bike either.
raddad wrote:
And the hole in that theory is a "Wally" bike..Just because he doesn't know how to set up a bike for MX does not mean its...
And the hole in that theory is a "Wally" bike..Just because he doesn't know how to set up a bike for MX does not mean its beat! Its easy to spot a bike that's never been beat, maintained correctly and rarely ridden, I would go with a Wally bike any daySmile
Track and Trail wrote:
No, it means if it has been beat the guy wouldn't know the difference, or how to fix it if he did. Also, it's not always...
No, it means if it has been beat the guy wouldn't know the difference, or how to fix it if he did.

Also, it's not always easy to spot a bike that's barely been ridden. Guys will buff, shine, change plastic, put on new tires, add new spockets, and even paint worn parts to fool you.

It's even harder to tell if it's been maintained correctly. Mr. trail guy's bike might look like it only has twenty hours on it, but the same oil was probably run in it up until the day he put it up for sale

Unless you know the guy, a good looking bike is no guarantee that the internals match what the externals proclaim.

"Wally" bikes are no better, whatever a "wally" bike is.

I would take a bike from a guy that understood bikes anyday Smile

Someone with a sharp eye can ferret out a gem from a painted piece of coal. I understand that many of us do not have that gift. But with experience comes knowledge..I can tell if metal has been stressed just by looking at certain areas on a frame, I can tell if paint is new or original, I can see painted parts that hide cracks and stress, I can see dings, scrapes and wear on the bottom rails of a bike and the linkage, I can see if a tire has ever even been changed on a rim or if its original, I can see new parts in places that should have original parts, I can look under a seat and see if the cover has ever been replaced or if there is wear on the tops of the sub frame or back of the tank, I can see if the graphics are original and if they are worn at all, I can look at the back fender and see if a leg was thown over hundreds of time or very few... the list goes on and on and a sharp experienced eye can easily see these things. Its the same for a car or a boat or a house or anything at all that is used or used up.

I think that the "Wally" bike is the perfect example, a guy buys the bike new, rides it a few times a year (maybe) then stores it correctly between rides. It is in new pristine condition if you look at all the areas I mentioned and more. That is the bike I would take over any bike that was a real race bike, hell I maintain my race bikes and they rarely have a problem even with over 200 hrs but would I buy one of my old bikes instead of a "Wally" bike? No.

You have to have the knowledge to know what to look for in a used bike and if you do and you find that pristine original bike, buy it!

The Shop

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Track and Trail 9/21/2011 4:41pm
9/21/2011 4:41pm
Again, unless you know the guy, a good looking bike is no guarantee that the internals match what the externals proclaim.
newmann
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newmann 9/21/2011 4:51pm
9/21/2011 4:51pm
Track and Trail wrote:
Again, unless you know the guy, a good looking bike is no guarantee that the internals match what the externals proclaim.
Vintage lesson 101. About internals and externals and not knowing people that I've bought 60 or 70 old Elsinores from.

When looking for a 1973-74 CR250M or a 1974-75 CR125M look at the footpegs. If they aren't drooping, get it.

73-74 CR250M, unless it is brand new it will need shift forks and 2nd and 3rd gearsets.

Going racing with a 74-75 CR125, make sure you have a couple spare top ends ready to go.
raddad
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raddad 9/21/2011 4:56pm
9/21/2011 4:56pm
Track and Trail wrote:
Again, unless you know the guy, a good looking bike is no guarantee that the internals match what the externals proclaim.
I don't think your reading or comprehending what i said, Its much more that how it looks as in "shiny and painted" Its about being able to truly see the difference between original and pristine and refurbished to look that way.

I am not sure how to say it any more plainly but lets put it this way, If a person bought a bike and rode it 5-10 times and another person bought a bike that he raced for years but rebuilt it, then 5 years later you set them side by side would you be able to tell the difference?

I can tell.. and I would never ever take the raced bike no matter how much paint and elbow grease went into it because one bike is beat, stressed in the frame, tranny, cases etc etc etc. I'm telling you I can see those things and tell the difference, really I could. And I don't have to know the guy to see which one is like new and which one is new.
Track and Trail 9/21/2011 4:57pm
9/21/2011 4:57pm
Track and Trail wrote:
Again, unless you know the guy, a good looking bike is no guarantee that the internals match what the externals proclaim.
newmann wrote:
Vintage lesson 101. About internals and externals and not knowing people that I've bought 60 or 70 old Elsinores from. When looking for a 1973-74 CR250M...
Vintage lesson 101. About internals and externals and not knowing people that I've bought 60 or 70 old Elsinores from.

When looking for a 1973-74 CR250M or a 1974-75 CR125M look at the footpegs. If they aren't drooping, get it.

73-74 CR250M, unless it is brand new it will need shift forks and 2nd and 3rd gearsets.

Going racing with a 74-75 CR125, make sure you have a couple spare top ends ready to go.
Ok, I surrender Tongue
Hut
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Hut 9/21/2011 4:59pm
9/21/2011 4:59pm
newmann wrote:
Southeast Texas, plus I know how to build a proper crate. Could even build a crate to hold two! [img]http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt171/duc-man97/2002CR250KX250001.jpg[/img] [img]http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt171/duc-man97/2002CR250KX250004.jpg[/img] 2002 CR250 bought from a...
Southeast Texas, plus I know how to build a proper crate. Could even build a crate to hold two!





2002 CR250 bought from a 70 something year old man. It was one of those all originals down to the gips, chain and tires. Tore it down and cleaned everything. Went back together with lots of new stuff. Too much to list. $2400.00
Wow that's a good deal for the most beautiful bike ever!
Picture looks like it has never been ridden.
newmann
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newmann 9/21/2011 5:05pm
9/21/2011 5:05pm
Track and Trail wrote:
Again, unless you know the guy, a good looking bike is no guarantee that the internals match what the externals proclaim.
newmann wrote:
Vintage lesson 101. About internals and externals and not knowing people that I've bought 60 or 70 old Elsinores from. When looking for a 1973-74 CR250M...
Vintage lesson 101. About internals and externals and not knowing people that I've bought 60 or 70 old Elsinores from.

When looking for a 1973-74 CR250M or a 1974-75 CR125M look at the footpegs. If they aren't drooping, get it.

73-74 CR250M, unless it is brand new it will need shift forks and 2nd and 3rd gearsets.

Going racing with a 74-75 CR125, make sure you have a couple spare top ends ready to go.
Track and Trail wrote:
Ok, I surrender Tongue
You'd laugh your ass off at some of the stuff I've drug home just because there was one thing and one thing only good about it. Wife shakes head and says don't leave that in the driveway. I also rescue lots of bikes that may be in danger of going to a bad home.
Flatliner
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Flatliner 9/21/2011 5:05pm
9/21/2011 5:05pm
lumpy790 wrote:
I would buy a raced bike any day over a trail rider................... Racers replace parts before they fail.
Some do, some replace only what breaks.
Track and Trail 9/21/2011 5:07pm
9/21/2011 5:07pm
Track and Trail wrote:
Again, unless you know the guy, a good looking bike is no guarantee that the internals match what the externals proclaim.
raddad wrote:
I don't think your reading or comprehending what i said, Its much more that how it looks as in "shiny and painted" Its about being able...
I don't think your reading or comprehending what i said, Its much more that how it looks as in "shiny and painted" Its about being able to truly see the difference between original and pristine and refurbished to look that way.

I am not sure how to say it any more plainly but lets put it this way, If a person bought a bike and rode it 5-10 times and another person bought a bike that he raced for years but rebuilt it, then 5 years later you set them side by side would you be able to tell the difference?

I can tell.. and I would never ever take the raced bike no matter how much paint and elbow grease went into it because one bike is beat, stressed in the frame, tranny, cases etc etc etc. I'm telling you I can see those things and tell the difference, really I could. And I don't have to know the guy to see which one is like new and which one is new.
I am able to read and comprehend very well, thank you. If I add a differing point of view, it doesn't mean you have to write more plainly in order to correct my thinking. If you wish to rebut me that is fine, I respond positively to reason.

Also, I never mentioned someone should buy a race bike over a trail bike.

Btw It's *you're and *It's. Also, when referring to yourself, an "I" needs to be capitalized.
Track and Trail 9/21/2011 5:10pm
9/21/2011 5:10pm
newmann wrote:
Vintage lesson 101. About internals and externals and not knowing people that I've bought 60 or 70 old Elsinores from. When looking for a 1973-74 CR250M...
Vintage lesson 101. About internals and externals and not knowing people that I've bought 60 or 70 old Elsinores from.

When looking for a 1973-74 CR250M or a 1974-75 CR125M look at the footpegs. If they aren't drooping, get it.

73-74 CR250M, unless it is brand new it will need shift forks and 2nd and 3rd gearsets.

Going racing with a 74-75 CR125, make sure you have a couple spare top ends ready to go.
Track and Trail wrote:
Ok, I surrender Tongue
newmann wrote:
You'd laugh your ass off at some of the stuff I've drug home just because there was one thing and one thing only good about it...
You'd laugh your ass off at some of the stuff I've drug home just because there was one thing and one thing only good about it. Wife shakes head and says don't leave that in the driveway. I also rescue lots of bikes that may be in danger of going to a bad home.
Har! Have fun treasure hunting.
MCfan4life
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MCfan4life 9/21/2011 5:19pm
9/21/2011 5:19pm
Don't fall for the line " a raced bike is a maintained bike". It very much depends on the individual.

My best mate and I fall into Peely's OCD category. Our bikes are maintained at any expense. However I just purchased a 2008 YZ250 which is a great bike but man had it been neglected. The guy raced it but his idea of cleaning was hosing off water dirt he could and then leaving it until the next ride. And as for maintenance? Pfft, wasn't even in the bloke's vocabulary.

So it's up to each individual owner, regardless of whether they're a racer or not. A keen eye will be able to detect whther it's been maintained or not.

And as for which bike, you can't go wrong with a 2006 or later YZ250 2 stroke. No mods necessary unless you are fast. Get the cleanest one you can find Smile
raddad
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raddad 9/21/2011 5:42pm
9/21/2011 5:42pm
Track and Trail wrote:
Again, unless you know the guy, a good looking bike is no guarantee that the internals match what the externals proclaim.
raddad wrote:
I don't think your reading or comprehending what i said, Its much more that how it looks as in "shiny and painted" Its about being able...
I don't think your reading or comprehending what i said, Its much more that how it looks as in "shiny and painted" Its about being able to truly see the difference between original and pristine and refurbished to look that way.

I am not sure how to say it any more plainly but lets put it this way, If a person bought a bike and rode it 5-10 times and another person bought a bike that he raced for years but rebuilt it, then 5 years later you set them side by side would you be able to tell the difference?

I can tell.. and I would never ever take the raced bike no matter how much paint and elbow grease went into it because one bike is beat, stressed in the frame, tranny, cases etc etc etc. I'm telling you I can see those things and tell the difference, really I could. And I don't have to know the guy to see which one is like new and which one is new.
Track and Trail wrote:
I am able to read and comprehend very well, thank you. If I add a differing point of view, it doesn't mean you have to write...
I am able to read and comprehend very well, thank you. If I add a differing point of view, it doesn't mean you have to write more plainly in order to correct my thinking. If you wish to rebut me that is fine, I respond positively to reason.

Also, I never mentioned someone should buy a race bike over a trail bike.

Btw It's *you're and *It's. Also, when referring to yourself, an "I" needs to be capitalized.
You said that unless you know the guy you really don't know what you're getting and I said that a sharp eye can see by looking at the outside that you get a very good idea of whats on the inside. I said that I can tell a used up bike from a pristine bike even if the used up bike is refurbished and I would take that very little used bike any day of the week. I'm arguing that a race bike, no matter how well maintained is not a good deal compared to a "wally bike" (one that's rarely ridden but older) even if the guy did not know how to set it up for MX.

My point is that I cannot be fooled because I do have experience and knowledge when it comes to mechanical things and that knowledge applies to bikes or washing machines, some have an eye for things and some don't. I think that the OP is looking for the best bang for the buck and IMO the bike that is was rarely ridden is just what he's looking for. I am not sure if the OP is mechanically inclined or how much real world experience he has but I posted only to try to help him decide.

I think Newman gets what I'm saying, he seems to have that "eye" for whats painted up and whats never been touched and rarely ridden. I don't know what you mean about never mentioning buying a race bike over a trail bike, I'm talking about any bike, any piece of equipment at all that's used and how to reasonably tell its condition without tearing it completely apart before purchasing it. Its not about correcting anyone's thinking its about explaining my point so its more understandable to everyone by using examples.
bd
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bd 9/21/2011 5:43pm
9/21/2011 5:43pm
flyinb501 wrote:
I'm looking to get back into the sport after about a 10 year hiatus. Right now I'm looking at 250 2 strokes in the $2K -...
I'm looking to get back into the sport after about a 10 year hiatus. Right now I'm looking at 250 2 strokes in the $2K - $3K range. My question is, what do you think is the better buy: A bike that has been raced, and nicely modded, or a stock bike that has been owned by the average guy that really doesn't know much about dirt bikes or the sport of Motocross in general.

My opinion is that someone that races and is in tune with the sport typically maintains their bikes much better than the guy that owns the bike that just sits in the barn and occasionally beats on it. I think a lot of these bikes have been neglected.

What do you guys think?

PS: Before I took my long break I was winning 250B, and open B races so I'm hoping it comes back to me quick, and I plan on getting back into racing.
Be patient and find a fire sale. In a down economy, I have been able to find bikes riden a few times for chump change
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bd 9/21/2011 5:44pm
9/21/2011 5:44pm
newmann wrote:
Southeast Texas, plus I know how to build a proper crate. Could even build a crate to hold two! [img]http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt171/duc-man97/2002CR250KX250001.jpg[/img] [img]http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt171/duc-man97/2002CR250KX250004.jpg[/img] 2002 CR250 bought from a...
Southeast Texas, plus I know how to build a proper crate. Could even build a crate to hold two!





2002 CR250 bought from a 70 something year old man. It was one of those all originals down to the gips, chain and tires. Tore it down and cleaned everything. Went back together with lots of new stuff. Too much to list. $2400.00
Hut wrote:
Wow that's a good deal for the most beautiful bike ever!
Picture looks like it has never been ridden.
BINGO

Pit Row

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Track and Trail 9/21/2011 6:22pm
9/21/2011 6:22pm
raddad wrote:
You said that unless you know the guy you really don't know what you're getting and I said that a sharp eye can see by looking...
You said that unless you know the guy you really don't know what you're getting and I said that a sharp eye can see by looking at the outside that you get a very good idea of whats on the inside. I said that I can tell a used up bike from a pristine bike even if the used up bike is refurbished and I would take that very little used bike any day of the week. I'm arguing that a race bike, no matter how well maintained is not a good deal compared to a "wally bike" (one that's rarely ridden but older) even if the guy did not know how to set it up for MX.

My point is that I cannot be fooled because I do have experience and knowledge when it comes to mechanical things and that knowledge applies to bikes or washing machines, some have an eye for things and some don't. I think that the OP is looking for the best bang for the buck and IMO the bike that is was rarely ridden is just what he's looking for. I am not sure if the OP is mechanically inclined or how much real world experience he has but I posted only to try to help him decide.

I think Newman gets what I'm saying, he seems to have that "eye" for whats painted up and whats never been touched and rarely ridden. I don't know what you mean about never mentioning buying a race bike over a trail bike, I'm talking about any bike, any piece of equipment at all that's used and how to reasonably tell its condition without tearing it completely apart before purchasing it. Its not about correcting anyone's thinking its about explaining my point so its more understandable to everyone by using examples.
I agree, I said unless you know the guy you don't know what you're getting. You said that a sharp eye can see by looking at the outside you get a very good idea of whats on the inside.

A "very good idea" isn't an absolute verification of how the thing's been run. We're saying the same thing.

When buying a used machine, I'm of the opinion that no matter how much one knows through experience and inspection, there is no way (short of complete disassembly) to be absolutely certain of what you're getting. Because of that, I disagree that you or anyone else "cannot be fooled." If what you're talking about when you say you cannot be fooled concerns only the external parts and the internal parts you can inspect then I agree, you cannot be fooled. If you're saying you absolutely cannot be fooled I disagree, because the internals are "internal". Even if you buy a new bike you can be fooled. New bikes are recalled because a customer didn't get what was promised by the manufacturer.

I agree that knowing what to look for will increase one's success rate in finding a nice bike.
ME686
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ME686 9/21/2011 7:06pm
9/21/2011 7:06pm
I just picked up a cherry 06 rm250 for low 2's. Original everything, and owned by a hippy high school kid. I checked out the premix he was using and it was some cheap shit, so I pulled the engine and im going through the chassis to add decent grease. Gonna put bearings in the bottom end to be safe but thats cheap. Just a FYI, they needed it from running a bad mixture. It doesnt even have scratches on the bottom frame rails and I put the first scratches on the cases testing it in some single track, so looks can be a little deceiving. Still worth it though because it may have 5-10 hrs on it if that. Id say look for a stock bike for sure, because some people cannot turn a wrench at all. Stripped bolts and shit bother me badly, so the less it looks like its been touched, the more im interested. Ill try and get some pictures
redalert144
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redalert144 9/21/2011 9:19pm
9/21/2011 9:19pm
88sdad wrote:
Peely, you talking about Sand mountain?
peelout wrote:
yeah, have you ever been? fun place to ride, especially the surrounding area's
You were talking about Sand Mountain Peelout? You need to come down to the Bro capital of the world, Glamis! Sand is a sand box compared, endless dunes that you could ride non stop. Sand Mountain is basically that, 1 sand hill.I

n 2004 we went to Sand Mountain for Halloween, and it ended up snowing like 8-10 inches or something like that. was pretty crazy riding in snow on top of sand
flyinb501
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flyinb501 9/22/2011 6:12am
9/22/2011 6:12am
flyinb501 wrote:
Awesome info guys, thanks!

Newmann, where is that KX located? Looks extremely clean!
newmann wrote:
Southeast Texas, plus I know how to build a proper crate. Could even build a crate to hold two! [img]http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt171/duc-man97/2002CR250KX250001.jpg[/img] [img]http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt171/duc-man97/2002CR250KX250004.jpg[/img] 2002 CR250 bought from a...
Southeast Texas, plus I know how to build a proper crate. Could even build a crate to hold two!





2002 CR250 bought from a 70 something year old man. It was one of those all originals down to the gips, chain and tires. Tore it down and cleaned everything. Went back together with lots of new stuff. Too much to list. $2400.00
Now that is just beautiful! I have always been a Honda guy, and I've never owned anything but CR's and CBR's, but I hear the newer YZ's are the way to go. I have been hunting on Craigslist every day, but now that Fall is here in MN less and less bikes seem to be popping up for sale. I really want to get some rides in before Winter! How much do you think it would be to ship up Newmann?
CamP
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CamP 9/22/2011 6:30am
9/22/2011 6:30am
Craigslist is a great place to find super low hour, virtually unridden, bikes that spent their entire lives stuck in the corner of a garage. Look for 100% original bikes. If it still has the original tires, chain and sprockets, it's my kind of used bike.
newmann
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newmann 9/23/2011 6:00am
9/23/2011 6:00am
flyinb501 wrote:
Now that is just beautiful! I have always been a Honda guy, and I've never owned anything but CR's and CBR's, but I hear the newer...
Now that is just beautiful! I have always been a Honda guy, and I've never owned anything but CR's and CBR's, but I hear the newer YZ's are the way to go. I have been hunting on Craigslist every day, but now that Fall is here in MN less and less bikes seem to be popping up for sale. I really want to get some rides in before Winter! How much do you think it would be to ship up Newmann?
Check your e-mail. PM sent.
flyinb501
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flyinb501 9/23/2011 7:49am
9/23/2011 7:49am
Now I'm starting to see some good deals on some CRF 450's. I just don't know if I would have as much fun on a 4 stroke... What do you guys think between these two?

2005 YZ 250

http://wausau.craigslist.org/mcy/2544621359.html

2005 CRF 450

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/mcy/2596510501.html

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