You First, Rachel

vet323
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vet323
Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 8:22pm
Rachel Maddow's "Lean Forward" commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0gNga6v9EY

Anyone actually believe that today's "Progressives" would actually get behind ANYTHING like the Hoover Dam? I love this comment:

"The great irony is that we use tax dollars to fund windmills. That money goes to China so that they can build a coal powered electrical plant and use the power to build windmill blades. Then they loan the money back to us so that we can pay for the environmental lawyers who are suing to prevent the installation of the windmills.

Somehow this process will save the planet and create jobs."
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purpleNurple
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purpleNurple 9/12/2011 4:21pm
9/12/2011 4:21pm
Why is that man named Rachel?
Sondy132001
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Sondy132001 9/12/2011 4:32pm
9/12/2011 4:32pm
I like Rachel she does her homework, no saying shit then retracting it later like most of the clowns on TV.

S
JustMX
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JustMX 9/12/2011 5:11pm
9/12/2011 5:11pm Edited Date/Time 9/12/2011 5:12pm
I like this chic's hat a lot more.

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vet323
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vet323 9/13/2011 10:51am
9/13/2011 10:51am
JustMX wrote:
I like this chic's hat a lot more.

Funny. She should have been standing in front of the Big Dig.
lumpy790
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lumpy790 9/13/2011 1:40pm
9/13/2011 1:40pm
HMMMMM.... the Hoover Dam was one of Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal.....government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression......sounds a lot like the Bill Obama just proposed.

Here are the top 10

http://americanhistory.about.com/od/greatdepression/tp/new_deal_program…
TripleFive 9/13/2011 2:09pm
9/13/2011 2:09pm
lumpy790 wrote:
HMMMMM.... the Hoover Dam was one of Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal.....government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression......sounds a lot...
HMMMMM.... the Hoover Dam was one of Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal.....government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression......sounds a lot like the Bill Obama just proposed.

Here are the top 10

http://americanhistory.about.com/od/greatdepression/tp/new_deal_program…
"government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression..."

That's pure opinion; evidence suggests that the massive New Deal spending actually prolonged the Great Depression.
Bob693
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Bob693 9/13/2011 2:38pm
9/13/2011 2:38pm
TripleFive wrote:
"government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression..." That's pure opinion; evidence suggests that the massive New Deal spending actually prolonged...
"government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression..."

That's pure opinion; evidence suggests that the massive New Deal spending actually prolonged the Great Depression.
This ^
GoldenState54 9/13/2011 2:48pm
9/13/2011 2:48pm
TripleFive wrote:
"government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression..." That's pure opinion; evidence suggests that the massive New Deal spending actually prolonged...
"government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression..."

That's pure opinion; evidence suggests that the massive New Deal spending actually prolonged the Great Depression.
Bob693 wrote:
This ^
Kinda like the recession that's being prolonged now. . . . . .
txmxer
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txmxer 9/13/2011 3:09pm
9/13/2011 3:09pm
lumpy790 wrote:
HMMMMM.... the Hoover Dam was one of Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal.....government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression......sounds a lot...
HMMMMM.... the Hoover Dam was one of Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal.....government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression......sounds a lot like the Bill Obama just proposed.

Here are the top 10

http://americanhistory.about.com/od/greatdepression/tp/new_deal_program…
TripleFive wrote:
"government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression..." That's pure opinion; evidence suggests that the massive New Deal spending actually prolonged...
"government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression..."

That's pure opinion; evidence suggests that the massive New Deal spending actually prolonged the Great Depression.
What evidence do you have of this?
TripleFive 9/13/2011 4:35pm
9/13/2011 4:35pm
lumpy790 wrote:
HMMMMM.... the Hoover Dam was one of Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal.....government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression......sounds a lot...
HMMMMM.... the Hoover Dam was one of Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal.....government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression......sounds a lot like the Bill Obama just proposed.

Here are the top 10

http://americanhistory.about.com/od/greatdepression/tp/new_deal_program…
TripleFive wrote:
"government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression..." That's pure opinion; evidence suggests that the massive New Deal spending actually prolonged...
"government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression..."

That's pure opinion; evidence suggests that the massive New Deal spending actually prolonged the Great Depression.
txmxer wrote:
What evidence do you have of this?
FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate


""High wages and high prices in an economic slump run contrary to everything we know about market forces in economic downturns," Ohanian said. "As we've seen in the past several years, salaries and prices fall when unemployment is high. By artificially inflating both, the New Deal policies short-circuited the market's self-correcting forces."


http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depressio…
flarider
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flarider 9/13/2011 4:37pm
9/13/2011 4:37pm
Of course you can find economists who'll say the opposite.
TripleFive 9/13/2011 4:47pm
9/13/2011 4:47pm
Let's just get this out of the way now; Only the economists I quote can be counted on as having a valid opinion.
TripleFive 9/13/2011 4:51pm
9/13/2011 4:51pm
flarider wrote:
Of course you can find economists who'll say the opposite.
What you can't disagree with is that the New Deal MASSIVELY expanded the role of the federal government forever. I think it's a pretty easy leap to make to say that the fiscal problems the United States is having today wouldn't be possible without the expansion under FDR.
txmxer
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txmxer 9/13/2011 4:56pm
9/13/2011 4:56pm
flarider wrote:
Of course you can find economists who'll say the opposite.
TripleFive wrote:
What you can't disagree with is that the New Deal MASSIVELY expanded the role of the federal government forever. I think it's a pretty easy leap...
What you can't disagree with is that the New Deal MASSIVELY expanded the role of the federal government forever. I think it's a pretty easy leap to make to say that the fiscal problems the United States is having today wouldn't be possible without the expansion under FDR.
I don't think that's accurate at all.
vet323
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vet323 9/13/2011 5:18pm
9/13/2011 5:18pm
flarider wrote:
Of course you can find economists who'll say the opposite.
TripleFive wrote:
What you can't disagree with is that the New Deal MASSIVELY expanded the role of the federal government forever. I think it's a pretty easy leap...
What you can't disagree with is that the New Deal MASSIVELY expanded the role of the federal government forever. I think it's a pretty easy leap to make to say that the fiscal problems the United States is having today wouldn't be possible without the expansion under FDR.
txmxer wrote:
I don't think that's accurate at all.
What evidence do you have that what 555 said isn't accurate?
txmxer
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txmxer 9/13/2011 6:54pm
9/13/2011 6:54pm
TripleFive wrote:
"government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression..." That's pure opinion; evidence suggests that the massive New Deal spending actually prolonged...
"government job plan that helped pull the country out of the great depression..."

That's pure opinion; evidence suggests that the massive New Deal spending actually prolonged the Great Depression.
txmxer wrote:
What evidence do you have of this?
TripleFive wrote:
[b]FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate[/b] ""High wages and high prices in an economic slump run contrary to everything we know about...
FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate


""High wages and high prices in an economic slump run contrary to everything we know about market forces in economic downturns," Ohanian said. "As we've seen in the past several years, salaries and prices fall when unemployment is high. By artificially inflating both, the New Deal policies short-circuited the market's self-correcting forces."


http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depressio…
Start here, other than home prices, everything is more expensive now. Reall wages have been flat for decades.

Vet, I do agree at least in part with your initial premise. Green tech is a great idea, but it should be tempered with proper evaluation. PV panels only sell because of govt subsidy. It interferes with market forces.

As far as the leap that the new deal led to our current economic situation, its really up to 555 to support his argument. That said, it could be argued that corporate welfare and the military industrial complex have bled us dry.

But, for a bigger picture, we could look at history and say that this is destiny. Every road leads to an eventual collapse. Money becomes pooled in the hands of very few and revolution ensues, redistributing the wealth.

Govt redristribution puts the revolution on hold, but as we see, it doesn't last. The money still pools.

IMO.

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TripleFive 9/13/2011 7:15pm
9/13/2011 7:15pm
txmxer wrote:
Start here, other than home prices, everything is more expensive now. Reall wages have been flat for decades. Vet, I do agree at least in part...
Start here, other than home prices, everything is more expensive now. Reall wages have been flat for decades.

Vet, I do agree at least in part with your initial premise. Green tech is a great idea, but it should be tempered with proper evaluation. PV panels only sell because of govt subsidy. It interferes with market forces.

As far as the leap that the new deal led to our current economic situation, its really up to 555 to support his argument. That said, it could be argued that corporate welfare and the military industrial complex have bled us dry.

But, for a bigger picture, we could look at history and say that this is destiny. Every road leads to an eventual collapse. Money becomes pooled in the hands of very few and revolution ensues, redistributing the wealth.

Govt redristribution puts the revolution on hold, but as we see, it doesn't last. The money still pools.

IMO.
Would you agree that the idea of corporate welfare was in a way initiated by FDR?
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 9/13/2011 7:18pm
9/13/2011 7:18pm
txmxer wrote:
Start here, other than home prices, everything is more expensive now. Reall wages have been flat for decades. Vet, I do agree at least in part...
Start here, other than home prices, everything is more expensive now. Reall wages have been flat for decades.

Vet, I do agree at least in part with your initial premise. Green tech is a great idea, but it should be tempered with proper evaluation. PV panels only sell because of govt subsidy. It interferes with market forces.

As far as the leap that the new deal led to our current economic situation, its really up to 555 to support his argument. That said, it could be argued that corporate welfare and the military industrial complex have bled us dry.

But, for a bigger picture, we could look at history and say that this is destiny. Every road leads to an eventual collapse. Money becomes pooled in the hands of very few and revolution ensues, redistributing the wealth.

Govt redristribution puts the revolution on hold, but as we see, it doesn't last. The money still pools.

IMO.
TripleFive wrote:
Would you agree that the idea of corporate welfare was in a way initiated by FDR?
In American history, there have never been greater advocates of corporate welfare than Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.
Void Main
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Void Main 9/13/2011 7:21pm
9/13/2011 7:21pm
TripleFive 9/13/2011 7:52pm
9/13/2011 7:52pm Edited Date/Time 9/13/2011 7:54pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
In American history, there have never been greater advocates of corporate welfare than Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.
Purely conjecture.

I like to know how Clinton and Obama fit into your picture. Surely they must be close if not even if you're a reasonable thinker.
WhKnuckle
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WhKnuckle 9/13/2011 8:18pm
9/13/2011 8:18pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
In American history, there have never been greater advocates of corporate welfare than Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.
TripleFive wrote:
Purely conjecture. I like to know how Clinton and Obama fit into your picture. Surely they must be close if not even if you're a reasonable...
Purely conjecture.

I like to know how Clinton and Obama fit into your picture. Surely they must be close if not even if you're a reasonable thinker.
I pointed those two out because of their tax policies for investor-class individuals and corporations vs middle class. Under Clinton, distribution of wealth angled upward, but that had more to do with free trade and globalization that was golden to investors and corporations but Black Death to the middle class. The redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the top 1% between 1980 and 2008 has been unmatched since the Great Depression.

Obama hasn't done anything specifically for investors and corporations, but has cut taxes for the middle class, and he's also gone to great efforts to keep teachers, policemen and firefighters on the job - all middle class people.

I voted for Reagan both times he ran, and I voted for HW Bush (and still think he was the best president of the last 30 years) both times, and even Bob Dole. I never voted for Clinton. But I don't know if Reagan's basic philosophy was bad or whether the Republican party has just distorted his ideas until they're unrecognizable, but the supply-side economic theory is a brutal failure in every way. Extreme capitalism is no better than extreme socialism.
Frogman
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Frogman 9/14/2011 1:50pm
9/14/2011 1:50pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
I pointed those two out because of their tax policies for investor-class individuals and corporations vs middle class. Under Clinton, distribution of wealth angled upward, but...
I pointed those two out because of their tax policies for investor-class individuals and corporations vs middle class. Under Clinton, distribution of wealth angled upward, but that had more to do with free trade and globalization that was golden to investors and corporations but Black Death to the middle class. The redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the top 1% between 1980 and 2008 has been unmatched since the Great Depression.

Obama hasn't done anything specifically for investors and corporations, but has cut taxes for the middle class, and he's also gone to great efforts to keep teachers, policemen and firefighters on the job - all middle class people.

I voted for Reagan both times he ran, and I voted for HW Bush (and still think he was the best president of the last 30 years) both times, and even Bob Dole. I never voted for Clinton. But I don't know if Reagan's basic philosophy was bad or whether the Republican party has just distorted his ideas until they're unrecognizable, but the supply-side economic theory is a brutal failure in every way. Extreme capitalism is no better than extreme socialism.
LOL

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