If dungey got passed by race leader

zippy895
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zippy895
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 6:47am
at any time when he entered the race course,does that mean he has to hold back? or can he race his own race and step it up and pass at will.
im getting a vibe that he had to be faster than j.b. when he was almost a lap down or he had to sit in behind him the whole race.(southwick)
any rules on this?
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rangot
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rangot 9/1/2011 5:10am
9/1/2011 5:10am
Not sure, but if you get lapped and the leader crash in front of you, you have to wait for him to pick up his bike ?
DC
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DC 9/1/2011 5:12am
9/1/2011 5:12am
If Barcia were closer and closing in on RD, Dungey would have gotten the blue flag, but it worked out the other way -- Ryan actually started pulling away a little, and then more towards the end.

But had Dungey not made the start before Barcia crossed the finish line to complete his first lap, he would not have been allowed to continue. You have to start the race before the leader completes his first full lap.

DC
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zippy895
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zippy895 9/1/2011 5:19am
9/1/2011 5:19am
DC wrote:
If Barcia were closer and closing in on RD, Dungey would have gotten the blue flag, but it worked out the other way -- Ryan actually...
If Barcia were closer and closing in on RD, Dungey would have gotten the blue flag, but it worked out the other way -- Ryan actually started pulling away a little, and then more towards the end.

But had Dungey not made the start before Barcia crossed the finish line to complete his first lap, he would not have been allowed to continue. You have to start the race before the leader completes his first full lap.

DC
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granted , but say dungey started closing in on barcia some time after the blue flag and took real wide lines not to interupt barcias pace. is he allowed to pass?given the fact barcia's race is not interupted by line choices .and given that dungey could easly pull away with out confrontation.
DC
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DC 9/1/2011 5:27am
9/1/2011 5:27am
If Dungey's closing in on Barcia, he's not close to being lapped -- he's in second place!

But if you meant it the other way around, and then Dungey picks up the pace and starts to pull away rather than be lapped, that's perfectly fine too. It's only when the leader closes in on a lapper that the blue flag comes out.

DC
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chadder44
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chadder44 9/1/2011 5:42am
9/1/2011 5:42am
DC wrote:
If Dungey's closing in on Barcia, he's not close to being lapped -- he's in second place! But if you meant it the other way around...
If Dungey's closing in on Barcia, he's not close to being lapped -- he's in second place!

But if you meant it the other way around, and then Dungey picks up the pace and starts to pull away rather than be lapped, that's perfectly fine too. It's only when the leader closes in on a lapper that the blue flag comes out.

DC
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DC, I think what he meant was, if Dungey had gotten lapped early on while barcia was still in sprint mode, could dungey un-lap himself later in the race? Or would that count as interfering with the race leader?
zippy895
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zippy895 9/1/2011 5:42am
9/1/2011 5:42am
i meant, well lets say at southwick....
dungey gets out on the track, barcia is just behind him(like what happened),dungey in this new scenario gets the blue flag because he is not fast enough to prevent the on coming barcia. ok, now dungey is behind barcia for say 2 laps and now dungey has the fire lit in his ass. he is obviously way faster than barcia at this point but wants to pass"clean and out of barcias race lines".
he passes and takes off and is out of site. is this scenario allowed?
chadder44
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chadder44 9/1/2011 5:46am
9/1/2011 5:46am
Their pace was so similar, it would be tough for dungey to pass him easily, but I would guess Barcia would probably let him by. I remember RC letting Buddy Antunez by so he could get one more lap in at the end of a moto at 1998 Mt Morris I think. He also did a little goon riding before letting him by to make him laugh!
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JOHN CHOATE 9/1/2011 5:47am
9/1/2011 5:47am
You are allowed to un-lap yourself.
zippy895
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zippy895 9/1/2011 5:50am
9/1/2011 5:50am
im taking in consideration dungey stayed in front of barcia before barcias full 1st lap completed.with no blue flag yet.
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Tbteam 9/1/2011 5:52am
9/1/2011 5:52am
Guys, this is kind of ridiculous. Of course Dungey would be "allowed" to pass Barcia back. It's a RACE.

There is no rule stating that if you are passed by the leader that you must stay behind him, even if you were lapped for the 5th time.

So, to be clear, if JB had passed Dungey, and then Dungey picked up the pace, he most certainly could unlap himself and continue picking off riders as he advanced. And guess what? If he was REALLY fast and caught all the way back up to Barcia again, he could pass for the lead.
Crush
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Crush 9/1/2011 5:53am
9/1/2011 5:53am
Yeah I saw that... For what reason are you DQ'ed if you don't start before a lap is completed?

Seems silly seeing it is completely ok to unlap yourself mid race...
huck
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huck 9/1/2011 5:54am
9/1/2011 5:54am
Crush wrote:
Yeah I saw that... For what reason are you DQ'ed if you don't start before a lap is completed? Seems silly seeing it is completely ok...
Yeah I saw that... For what reason are you DQ'ed if you don't start before a lap is completed?

Seems silly seeing it is completely ok to unlap yourself mid race...
I'd say it has something to do with the way the start comes into the track....
zippy895
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zippy895 9/1/2011 6:02am
9/1/2011 6:02am
the reason i even brought this subject up. i recall top riders in the past getting lapped by a race leader for what ever reason (crashed prior/injured / whatever) and then noticably went way slowwer after getting past/lapped.
gave me the impression that they were not allowed to even try and pass back at anytime.
thanks for the clarification.
SteveS
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SteveS 9/1/2011 6:35am
9/1/2011 6:35am
zippy895 wrote:
the reason i even brought this subject up. i recall top riders in the past getting lapped by a race leader for what ever reason (crashed...
the reason i even brought this subject up. i recall top riders in the past getting lapped by a race leader for what ever reason (crashed prior/injured / whatever) and then noticably went way slowwer after getting past/lapped.
gave me the impression that they were not allowed to even try and pass back at anytime.
thanks for the clarification.
That's not because it';s not allowed. It's because they were working hard to keep from getting lapped, but once they were they gave up.
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GuyB 9/1/2011 6:37am
9/1/2011 6:37am
Crush wrote:
Yeah I saw that... For what reason are you DQ'ed if you don't start before a lap is completed? Seems silly seeing it is completely ok...
Yeah I saw that... For what reason are you DQ'ed if you don't start before a lap is completed?

Seems silly seeing it is completely ok to unlap yourself mid race...
In the interest of common sense, probably. To prevent a rider (or riders) who clearly have no chance of winning to interfere with the others on the track, cause confusion for the fans and officials, etc.
shiftmx_22 9/1/2011 7:04am
9/1/2011 7:04am
zippy895 wrote:
the reason i even brought this subject up. i recall top riders in the past getting lapped by a race leader for what ever reason (crashed...
the reason i even brought this subject up. i recall top riders in the past getting lapped by a race leader for what ever reason (crashed prior/injured / whatever) and then noticably went way slowwer after getting past/lapped.
gave me the impression that they were not allowed to even try and pass back at anytime.
thanks for the clarification.
didnt this happen last supercross season? i thought in one of (many) stewart crashes he ended up getting lapped by, like, villo or something? and he just kind of put it on cruise control so he didn't unlap himself and mess with the race leader. (did this actually happen, or am i crazy?). it seems to me like kinda a common courtesy thing, if it's someone in the points chase out front.
however in this instance, barcia wasn't anywhere in the points battle, so dungey woulda had free reign in my books to get back around him.
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jemcee 9/1/2011 7:25am
9/1/2011 7:25am Edited Date/Time 9/1/2011 7:26am
if dungey wanted to be really tricky he should've let barcia passed then sat behind him and used the blue flags to get by the backmarkers easier cause they would've assumed he was racing with Barcia...
although as i'm typing this i realised they all probably knew he didn't start so it wouldn't have worked so I won't post it

(Edit: shit)
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APLMAN99 9/1/2011 7:33am
9/1/2011 7:33am
DC wrote:
If Barcia were closer and closing in on RD, Dungey would have gotten the blue flag, but it worked out the other way -- Ryan actually...
If Barcia were closer and closing in on RD, Dungey would have gotten the blue flag, but it worked out the other way -- Ryan actually started pulling away a little, and then more towards the end.

But had Dungey not made the start before Barcia crossed the finish line to complete his first lap, he would not have been allowed to continue. You have to start the race before the leader completes his first full lap.

DC
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DC, the rule about having to start before the leader passes seems pretty unclear. That is in the section concerning restarts. Looks like this event exposed several opportunities to clarify the rules in writing?

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TripleFive 9/1/2011 8:15am
9/1/2011 8:15am
Tbteam wrote:
Guys, this is kind of ridiculous. Of course Dungey would be "allowed" to pass Barcia back. It's a RACE. There is no rule stating that if...
Guys, this is kind of ridiculous. Of course Dungey would be "allowed" to pass Barcia back. It's a RACE.

There is no rule stating that if you are passed by the leader that you must stay behind him, even if you were lapped for the 5th time.

So, to be clear, if JB had passed Dungey, and then Dungey picked up the pace, he most certainly could unlap himself and continue picking off riders as he advanced. And guess what? If he was REALLY fast and caught all the way back up to Barcia again, he could pass for the lead.
THIS.


A lot of idiots 'round here.
SteveS
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SteveS 9/1/2011 10:03am
9/1/2011 10:03am
DC wrote:
If Barcia were closer and closing in on RD, Dungey would have gotten the blue flag, but it worked out the other way -- Ryan actually...
If Barcia were closer and closing in on RD, Dungey would have gotten the blue flag, but it worked out the other way -- Ryan actually started pulling away a little, and then more towards the end.

But had Dungey not made the start before Barcia crossed the finish line to complete his first lap, he would not have been allowed to continue. You have to start the race before the leader completes his first full lap.

DC
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APLMAN99 wrote:
DC, the rule about having to start before the leader passes seems pretty unclear. That is in the section concerning restarts. Looks like this event exposed...
DC, the rule about having to start before the leader passes seems pretty unclear. That is in the section concerning restarts. Looks like this event exposed several opportunities to clarify the rules in writing?
What's unclear?

e. Riders who are present at the gate but are unable to start due to a
stalled motorcycle or other contributing factor may join the race from
the starting area until the time the race leader completes the first
lap. Thereafter, the rider may not join the race. Riders unable to join
the race by this procedure are barred from any subsequent restarts.
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 9/1/2011 10:09am
9/1/2011 10:09am
DC wrote:
If Barcia were closer and closing in on RD, Dungey would have gotten the blue flag, but it worked out the other way -- Ryan actually...
If Barcia were closer and closing in on RD, Dungey would have gotten the blue flag, but it worked out the other way -- Ryan actually started pulling away a little, and then more towards the end.

But had Dungey not made the start before Barcia crossed the finish line to complete his first lap, he would not have been allowed to continue. You have to start the race before the leader completes his first full lap.

DC
MX Sports
APLMAN99 wrote:
DC, the rule about having to start before the leader passes seems pretty unclear. That is in the section concerning restarts. Looks like this event exposed...
DC, the rule about having to start before the leader passes seems pretty unclear. That is in the section concerning restarts. Looks like this event exposed several opportunities to clarify the rules in writing?
SteveS wrote:
What's unclear? e. Riders who are present at the gate but are unable to start due to a stalled motorcycle or other contributing factor may join...
What's unclear?

e. Riders who are present at the gate but are unable to start due to a
stalled motorcycle or other contributing factor may join the race from
the starting area until the time the race leader completes the first
lap. Thereafter, the rider may not join the race. Riders unable to join
the race by this procedure are barred from any subsequent restarts.
That Is a subsection pertaining to restarts. That isn't in the starting procedures section.

There wasn't a restart Sunday, so that subsection wouldn't apply.
Hut
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Hut 9/1/2011 10:13am
9/1/2011 10:13am
SteveS wrote:
What's unclear? e. Riders who are present at the gate but are unable to start due to a stalled motorcycle or other contributing factor may join...
What's unclear?

e. Riders who are present at the gate but are unable to start due to a
stalled motorcycle or other contributing factor may join the race from
the starting area until the time the race leader completes the first
lap. Thereafter, the rider may not join the race. Riders unable to join
the race by this procedure are barred from any subsequent restarts.
Actually that wording is a little unclear in respect to what happened. It seems being at the gate would include the bike and rider since that is how gate picks are made. Don't get me wrong I think the correct decision was made and this is sort sets a precedence for an uncommon situation.
disbanded
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disbanded 9/1/2011 10:25am
9/1/2011 10:25am
AMA rule #342, Section B, Paragraph 6 clearly states that if a rider shits his pants after the 30 second board
has gone up he is not allowed to wipe until the race is over.
Sparkalounger
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Sparkalounger 9/1/2011 10:30am
9/1/2011 10:30am
SteveS wrote:
What's unclear? e. Riders who are present at the gate but are unable to start due to a stalled motorcycle or other contributing factor may join...
What's unclear?

e. Riders who are present at the gate but are unable to start due to a
stalled motorcycle or other contributing factor may join the race from
the starting area until the time the race leader completes the first
lap. Thereafter, the rider may not join the race. Riders unable to join
the race by this procedure are barred from any subsequent restarts.
Hut wrote:
Actually that wording is a little unclear in respect to what happened. It seems being at the gate would include the bike and rider since that...
Actually that wording is a little unclear in respect to what happened. It seems being at the gate would include the bike and rider since that is how gate picks are made. Don't get me wrong I think the correct decision was made and this is sort sets a precedence for an uncommon situation.
how does it "seem" like the rule includes the rider AND the bike? It only says "rider"...
Sparkalounger
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Sparkalounger 9/1/2011 10:30am
9/1/2011 10:30am
disbanded wrote:
AMA rule #342, Section B, Paragraph 6 clearly states that if a rider shits his pants after the 30 second board has gone up he is...
AMA rule #342, Section B, Paragraph 6 clearly states that if a rider shits his pants after the 30 second board
has gone up he is not allowed to wipe until the race is over.
*except for the use of their OWN glove...
Hut
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Hut 9/1/2011 10:50am
9/1/2011 10:50am
Sparkalounger wrote:
how does it "seem" like the rule includes the rider AND the bike? It only says "rider"...
I wish I hadn't even wrote that because in all honesty I hate legal crap. but it does say at the gate not in the staging area also it was said that is for restarts anyhow. No big deal to me I think the right thing was to let it go just how it did, regardless of who it was.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 9/1/2011 11:34am
9/1/2011 11:34am
It is legal to Un-lap yourself is what I understand correct?
Crush
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Crush 9/2/2011 3:36am
9/2/2011 3:36am
Crush wrote:
Yeah I saw that... For what reason are you DQ'ed if you don't start before a lap is completed? Seems silly seeing it is completely ok...
Yeah I saw that... For what reason are you DQ'ed if you don't start before a lap is completed?

Seems silly seeing it is completely ok to unlap yourself mid race...
GuyB wrote:
In the interest of common sense, probably. To prevent a rider (or riders) who clearly have no chance of winning to interfere with the others on...
In the interest of common sense, probably. To prevent a rider (or riders) who clearly have no chance of winning to interfere with the others on the track, cause confusion for the fans and officials, etc.
We've got lap transponders... and the riders would get Dq'ed if they were to interfere theoretically... And as for safety it is no different to entering the track somewhere else after going off...

Just sayin...
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tbanks 9/2/2011 5:54am
9/2/2011 5:54am
disbanded wrote:
AMA rule #342, Section B, Paragraph 6 clearly states that if a rider shits his pants after the 30 second board has gone up he is...
AMA rule #342, Section B, Paragraph 6 clearly states that if a rider shits his pants after the 30 second board
has gone up he is not allowed to wipe until the race is over.
I just choked on my food reading that Grinning That was hilarious

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