30 plus 2 - to die for?

Jim_Briggs
Posts
24
Joined
1/11/2011
Location
Landisburg, PA US
Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 4:26pm
I see this happening more and more! The death of Josh should now make the AMA quit talking about shorting the motos' to 20 minutes plus two. It sure doesn't mean they won't have to work any less getting in shape. It actually should make them a bit more competitive. If you hit the wall at the 15 minute mark as many do your already cooked. No chance for recovering and just get the hell out of the way! Also it should cut down on the amount of riders that get lapped? Many of them can say " yeah! had a great race, I didn't get lapped this week!"
I've watched my grand daughter's father suffer heat exhaustion (stoke?) in Texas last year and again this year at Hangtown. I guess many people don't understand that once this happens your subject to reoccurrences with conditions that may not be as extreme as the first! What is this little girl going to do without her Daddy for the rest of her life?

IT IS NOW TIME FOR AMA TO MAKE THE CHANGE! IT'S PERFECT HALF WAY THROUGH THE SEASON AND THIS PAST WEEK OFF. Some one give Mitch a call! He owns this business anyway. He may understand that his riders are subject to the same as the others.
|
mx_579
Posts
366
Joined
6/27/2009
Location
New Iberia, LA US
7/6/2011 2:20pm
Disagree
JustMX
Posts
5239
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
TN US
7/6/2011 2:21pm
mx_579 wrote:
Disagree
x2
txmxer
Posts
9770
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Weatherford, TX US
7/6/2011 2:25pm
Rather than shorten motos, I'd rather they implement a rider pull off plan:

Pull 31-40 at the 15 minute mark.
21-30 at 20 minutes
11-20 at 30 minutes.

Let the top 10 finish the race.
OUMX117
Posts
150
Joined
1/20/2010
Location
Edmond, OK US
7/6/2011 2:25pm
mx_579 wrote:
Disagree
x3

The Shop

yota
Posts
1421
Joined
6/23/2008
Location
Crystal River, FL US
7/6/2011 2:27pm
why is different now than when the old guys were doing 40 minute motos on bikes that were much harder to wrestle around? maybe global warming? fuking pussys. metrosexuals. body wash and hair spray. 4 strokes.
7/6/2011 2:30pm
yota wrote:
why is different now than when the old guys were doing 40 minute motos on bikes that were much harder to wrestle around? maybe global warming...
why is different now than when the old guys were doing 40 minute motos on bikes that were much harder to wrestle around? maybe global warming? fuking pussys. metrosexuals. body wash and hair spray. 4 strokes.
Thank you. Everyone feels bad for Josh but damn. Pussification of America in full force.
MCfan4life
Posts
5731
Joined
6/25/2009
Location
Qld AU
7/6/2011 2:30pm
Josh's death is indeed a tragedy and 1 fatality is 1 too many. But a knee jerk reaction is not the answer.

The AMA and MX Sports both need evidence of what really happened before decisions can be made.

I'm not saying that shortening motos is or isn't the answer, but we need cool clear heads to sort this out. DC was close to the Lichtle family and I have the utmost faith that DC and his team will make the right decision when the time is right.
mcleoud151
Posts
43
Joined
8/23/2007
Location
Albany, OR US
7/6/2011 2:37pm
You gotta' be Fuckin kidding me. Pussification? Who has the stats for what riders suffered heat stroke in that era? The 'net wasn't around, and I doubt most of us (you) would have heard of it had it happened.
Moto4T5
Posts
153
Joined
2/27/2011
Location
Corona, CA US
7/6/2011 2:46pm
Pussy galore, we used to run 50 min + 2 laps at Saddleback saturday, and i raced 2 classes, if these guys can't handle 30+ 2 thats fucking pathetic!
JustMX
Posts
5239
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
TN US
7/6/2011 2:52pm
txmxer wrote:
Rather than shorten motos, I'd rather they implement a rider pull off plan: Pull 31-40 at the 15 minute mark. 21-30 at 20 minutes 11-20 at...
Rather than shorten motos, I'd rather they implement a rider pull off plan:

Pull 31-40 at the 15 minute mark.
21-30 at 20 minutes
11-20 at 30 minutes.

Let the top 10 finish the race.
That would sure suck for somebody like RV that was still charging at the 30 minute mark.

Haven't checked the transponder scoring or lapsheets but there is a very good possibilty that someone like him could have been in 11th place at the 30 minute mark.

as tragic as this is I agree that knee jerk reactions are the wrong way to address the issue.

I mean, what about taking the kickstarters off the bikes so that if they stall they don't risk overexerting themselves?
7/6/2011 2:55pm Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 2:56pm
mcleoud151 wrote:
You gotta' be Fuckin kidding me. Pussification? Who has the stats for what riders suffered heat stroke in that era? The 'net wasn't around, and I...
You gotta' be Fuckin kidding me. Pussification? Who has the stats for what riders suffered heat stroke in that era? The 'net wasn't around, and I doubt most of us (you) would have heard of it had it happened.
People die all the time. It happens and it sucks. Should we ban water because people drown? People get hurt all the time riding motorcycles and some die. Should we ban them? Ban cars because people die in them. Ban airplanes. Ban horses. Wait then we would be back to getting heat stroke because we would have to walk every where.

MX is about endurance and skill.
KAWboy14
Posts
6502
Joined
12/31/2007
Location
Austin, TX US
7/6/2011 2:58pm
people die!
txmxer
Posts
9770
Joined
8/21/2006
Location
Weatherford, TX US
7/6/2011 2:59pm
txmxer wrote:
Rather than shorten motos, I'd rather they implement a rider pull off plan: Pull 31-40 at the 15 minute mark. 21-30 at 20 minutes 11-20 at...
Rather than shorten motos, I'd rather they implement a rider pull off plan:

Pull 31-40 at the 15 minute mark.
21-30 at 20 minutes
11-20 at 30 minutes.

Let the top 10 finish the race.
JustMX wrote:
That would sure suck for somebody like RV that was still charging at the 30 minute mark. Haven't checked the transponder scoring or lapsheets but there...
That would sure suck for somebody like RV that was still charging at the 30 minute mark.

Haven't checked the transponder scoring or lapsheets but there is a very good possibilty that someone like him could have been in 11th place at the 30 minute mark.

as tragic as this is I agree that knee jerk reactions are the wrong way to address the issue.

I mean, what about taking the kickstarters off the bikes so that if they stall they don't risk overexerting themselves?
It might cost someone a point or two.

Of course, it might get people to push a bit harder to stay in the race if they are running on that edge.

There is also the complaints about lappers. This would pretty much eliminate lappers from the field.

I'm not saying this is the best solution--just one idea. I'm definitely not a fan of shortening motos in conditions like those at Red Bud this past weekend. I'm very sorry about what happened to Josh, but the conditions just weren't that bad when you consider the history of motocross.
WhKnuckle
Posts
7327
Joined
7/17/2007
Location
TX US
7/6/2011 3:01pm
Folks, heat stroke claims lots of athletes in endurance sports every year. It's not that uncommon in most sports, but it IS uncommon in motocross. This was a very tragic, but it's not a reason to overhaul the sport.

Personally, I think longer motos are better because riders will have to pace themselves more and sprint less. It's the sprinting that's the problem. Anyone who's done a lot of distance running will tell you it's much easier to run 18 miles staying well within your aerobic capacity rather than 10 miles near anaerobic threashold - and when the races are 35 minutes, those guys are running right at their threashold all the time. But no matter what you do, as long as riders go to the gate with the determination to push themselves to their personal limit, they're going to crash and get hurt or they're going to push their body beyond their own capacity.

It's a terrible tragedy, but there's no certain way to prevent it.
jtomasik
Posts
12895
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
Golden, CO US
7/6/2011 3:05pm
How often do we hear about heat stroke killing the pros? I can't recall one, to tell you the truth. If there aren't cases like this y within the past 15 years, I think we're over-reacting.

Josh was local to that area. It makes me wonder if something else wasn't happening to him...maybe another sickness, or maybe something he did prior to the race (not hydrate enough...not enough rest...who knows?) that contributed to his death. Whatever it was, it doesn't make sense, and I don't recall it being common at all.

Before we ask for rule changes, maybe we should wait and see if time produces more info that sheds light on what the contributing factors were.

Or, we can just flame on....
7/6/2011 3:09pm
Josh was an unfortunate (and rare) tragedy. Do NOT shorten motos, this is not badminton its Moto.
SteveS
Posts
5598
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
WV US
7/6/2011 3:10pm
Perhaps requiring a battery an e-start on 450's would have made the difference.
KMC440
Posts
7764
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
7/6/2011 3:10pm
Dumbgeon
7/6/2011 3:12pm
jtomasik wrote:
How often do we hear about heat stroke killing the pros? I can't recall one, to tell you the truth. If there aren't cases like this...
How often do we hear about heat stroke killing the pros? I can't recall one, to tell you the truth. If there aren't cases like this y within the past 15 years, I think we're over-reacting.

Josh was local to that area. It makes me wonder if something else wasn't happening to him...maybe another sickness, or maybe something he did prior to the race (not hydrate enough...not enough rest...who knows?) that contributed to his death. Whatever it was, it doesn't make sense, and I don't recall it being common at all.

Before we ask for rule changes, maybe we should wait and see if time produces more info that sheds light on what the contributing factors were.

Or, we can just flame on....
The End,
mag23
Posts
748
Joined
5/12/2010
Location
Lincoln, CA US
7/6/2011 3:15pm
Moto4T5 wrote:
Pussy galore, we used to run 50 min + 2 laps at Saddleback saturday, and i raced 2 classes, if these guys can't handle 30+ 2...
Pussy galore, we used to run 50 min + 2 laps at Saddleback saturday, and i raced 2 classes, if these guys can't handle 30+ 2 thats fucking pathetic!
50 +2? Damn... you must've had a big gas tank... OR, more likely, ridin pretty damn slow
JustMX
Posts
5239
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
TN US
7/6/2011 3:23pm
txmxer wrote:
It might cost someone a point or two. Of course, it might get people to push a bit harder to stay in the race if they...
It might cost someone a point or two.

Of course, it might get people to push a bit harder to stay in the race if they are running on that edge.

There is also the complaints about lappers. This would pretty much eliminate lappers from the field.

I'm not saying this is the best solution--just one idea. I'm definitely not a fan of shortening motos in conditions like those at Red Bud this past weekend. I'm very sorry about what happened to Josh, but the conditions just weren't that bad when you consider the history of motocross.
With transponders being used maybe it could be based on the riders position and laptime.

I am sure trackside could build a program that would flag a rider that had slowed considerably over the period of several laps and/or was running a certain percentage slower than some other base like the average laptime of the top 5.

I
BobbyM
Posts
21439
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
AZ US
7/6/2011 3:24pm Edited Date/Time 7/6/2011 3:26pm
Jim_Briggs wrote:
I see this happening more and more! The death of Josh should now make the AMA quit talking about shorting the motos' to 20 minutes plus...
I see this happening more and more! The death of Josh should now make the AMA quit talking about shorting the motos' to 20 minutes plus two. It sure doesn't mean they won't have to work any less getting in shape. It actually should make them a bit more competitive. If you hit the wall at the 15 minute mark as many do your already cooked. No chance for recovering and just get the hell out of the way! Also it should cut down on the amount of riders that get lapped? Many of them can say " yeah! had a great race, I didn't get lapped this week!"
I've watched my grand daughter's father suffer heat exhaustion (stoke?) in Texas last year and again this year at Hangtown. I guess many people don't understand that once this happens your subject to reoccurrences with conditions that may not be as extreme as the first! What is this little girl going to do without her Daddy for the rest of her life?

IT IS NOW TIME FOR AMA TO MAKE THE CHANGE! IT'S PERFECT HALF WAY THROUGH THE SEASON AND THIS PAST WEEK OFF. Some one give Mitch a call! He owns this business anyway. He may understand that his riders are subject to the same as the others.
this thread is in poor...very poor taste
gotwings
Posts
849
Joined
7/11/2010
Location
Nor Cal, CA US
7/6/2011 3:33pm
LAME!
`ol Ger
Posts
6269
Joined
7/15/2007
Location
Piqua, OH US
7/6/2011 3:39pm
DISAGREE vociferously.


g
steve_o_de
Posts
64
Joined
9/8/2009
Location
Chesterfield Twp., MI US
7/6/2011 3:50pm
MCfan4life wrote:
Josh's death is indeed a tragedy and 1 fatality is 1 too many. But a knee jerk reaction is not the answer. The AMA and MX...
Josh's death is indeed a tragedy and 1 fatality is 1 too many. But a knee jerk reaction is not the answer.

The AMA and MX Sports both need evidence of what really happened before decisions can be made.

I'm not saying that shortening motos is or isn't the answer, but we need cool clear heads to sort this out. DC was close to the Lichtle family and I have the utmost faith that DC and his team will make the right decision when the time is right.
I have to agree, reacting without looking into this further is most likely not the thing to do. When the heat index reaches levels well above 100 deg. this should be taken seriously. Although these guys are professional athletes, they are still human.
Just my opinion, but straight out shortening moto's might not be the best solution. What happened to Josh is very tragic and should not have happened. Like some other guys mentioned, I remember going to Mid-Ohio in the late 70's to watch the USGP's and it was 45 +2. Hopefully, someone can suggest something that will help prevent this from ever happening again and make everyone concerned happy. Condolences to Josh's family and friends.
bultokid
Posts
2132
Joined
8/13/2007
Location
Houston, TX US
7/6/2011 3:53pm
SteveS wrote:
Perhaps requiring a battery an e-start on 450's would have made the difference.
Or better yet, get rid of 4 strokes. Bring back light, cost effective bikes that will freaking start.
Racer92
Posts
17965
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Central, TX US
7/6/2011 4:05pm
mx_579 wrote:
Disagree
Ditto
7/6/2011 4:32pm
Would this have happened if he was on an electric start KTM?
Cory976
Posts
279
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Littleton, CO US
7/6/2011 5:05pm
First of all, Josh did'nt make it more than 30 seconds into the race before he crashed. He was caught up in the Tommy Hahn, RV crash where Alessi imbeded himself into the ground 2 years ago. It was the constant kicking over the kickstarter, combined with no air circulation around him cause there was no breeze that caused him to get dizzy and go into heat stroke, so no, this had absoulutely nothing to do with the motos being too long in the heat.
Cygnus
Posts
14846
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Hanover, CO US
7/6/2011 5:15pm
Cory976 wrote:
First of all, Josh did'nt make it more than 30 seconds into the race before he crashed. He was caught up in the Tommy Hahn, RV...
First of all, Josh did'nt make it more than 30 seconds into the race before he crashed. He was caught up in the Tommy Hahn, RV crash where Alessi imbeded himself into the ground 2 years ago. It was the constant kicking over the kickstarter, combined with no air circulation around him cause there was no breeze that caused him to get dizzy and go into heat stroke, so no, this had absoulutely nothing to do with the motos being too long in the heat.
POS Yamaha!

Post a reply to: 30 plus 2 - to die for?

The Latest