2017 TC125 Rear Shock

I have been chasing a better setup on the rear end of my '17 TC125 and am wondering if anyone else has had issues with it being harsh on acceleration bumps? Have tried oem '17 valving, oem '18 valving, gold valve, WP Trax valved for me, N10Z, and currently running an Ohlins TTX Flow. The oem '18 and N10Z have seemed to be the best so far and the Trax was the worst. Bike has always jumped/handled well but my back can't take the spine tingling acceleration hits like it used to.. Rode a friend's '21 (?) CRF250 on the same track/day and couldn't believe how well the back end worked on it

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AJ565
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5/20/2023 4:30pm

It’s common. What I felt worked the best was the pro circuit linkage and knuckle. The link by itself helped, but not as much as the whole setup. The Luxon setup would be my go to if I was buying new, I just happened to luck out on someone selling a used one cheap. 

1
5/20/2023 4:44pm
AJ565 wrote:
It’s common. What I felt worked the best was the pro circuit linkage and knuckle. The link by itself helped, but not as much as the...

It’s common. What I felt worked the best was the pro circuit linkage and knuckle. The link by itself helped, but not as much as the whole setup. The Luxon setup would be my go to if I was buying new, I just happened to luck out on someone selling a used one cheap. 

Thats good to hear, I wondered about a linkage but wasn't sure what effect they would actually have. Care to expand on that AJ?

FGR01
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5/20/2023 5:18pm

The stock KTM linkage is a "low leverage" setup.. or something like that.  Notice that KTM's run much lighter shock springs, relatively, than all the Japanese bikes.   Where most Japanese full size bikes are in the 5.3-5.7kg range, KTM's are 4.2 - 4.5-ish.

Most of these aftermarket linkages basically turn it into more of a traditional Japanese bike setup and to get the full benefit you need a revalve and a new shock spring.  Mr. Luxon can explain much better but that's the general gist of it.

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Rickyisms
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5/21/2023 8:55am

I never had a complaint with how the shock/rear end worked on my 2016 125SX, but my pull arm blew a hole in it so I got a good deal on a used Ride Engineering pull rod and it made the bike handle even better, so I could imagine a full Linkage with the correct spring rate and valving would be magic. I would highly suggest trying Powerband suspension who’s now located in FL, they did a lot of orange brigade KTM 125s and 250s during that time period. 

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mog
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5/21/2023 12:11pm

It will never work like a 4 stroke rear end , my yz doesn't either 

 

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AJ565
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5/21/2023 2:14pm

Also a +1 for Powerband. That who I send my stuff too and have for a years now. They also do reeds kids stuff. 

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AJ565
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5/21/2023 2:16pm
mog wrote:

It will never work like a 4 stroke rear end , my yz doesn't either 

 

Thats not accurate on the KTM’s unless you are specifically referring to the engine braking which problem isn’t what he’s talking about. 

1
5/21/2023 3:09pm Edited Date/Time 5/21/2023 4:34pm
mog wrote:

It will never work like a 4 stroke rear end , my yz doesn't either 

 

I was thinking that the four stroke might load the rear more/less depending on the situation but should still be able to duplicate a similar action on mine or not? I was at our local track today riding and all seemed well there however it was quite muddy in the morning and became one line throughout the day but not a lot of traffic to hammer it up

mog
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5/22/2023 9:43am

No a 4 stroke will put the power done much better than a 2 stroke,the power pulse on the 2 stroke ( twice as often ) always breaks the rear loose easier and it never is as planted , also the light weight of the 125 works against it for traction compared to a 4 stroke 

 

That's why people love the 4 strokes ,better traction and more predictable

You will chase this forever 

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1
5/22/2023 10:08am
mog wrote:
No a 4 stroke will put the power done much better than a 2 stroke,the power pulse on the 2 stroke ( twice as often )...

No a 4 stroke will put the power done much better than a 2 stroke,the power pulse on the 2 stroke ( twice as often ) always breaks the rear loose easier and it never is as planted , also the light weight of the 125 works against it for traction compared to a 4 stroke 

 

That's why people love the 4 strokes ,better traction and more predictable

You will chase this forever 

I don't feel like I'm having traction issues, just that the small chop will kick me right up off of the seat. I always look for a smooth line but sometimes the fastest way is the roughest! Will have to get some video to look at and see exactly what's going on, sometimes it feels like the rear end has squatted low enough to get into a stiffer part of the travel. Tried opening up the rebound in case it was packing but didmt seem to make much difference

FGR01
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5/22/2023 10:50am

I'm going to assume you've carefully tested with the High speed compression adjuster on the shock, but I don't see it mentioned.  The HSC is much more sensitive on the Austrian bikes than the Japanese bikes.   1/4 turn can be the difference between plush on accel chop or refusing to move.  It's a fine balance between getting the plushness you want while still maintaining enough anti-squat and chassis balance for cornering.

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AJ565
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5/22/2023 7:48pm
FGR01 wrote:
I'm going to assume you've carefully tested with the High speed compression adjuster on the shock, but I don't see it mentioned.  The HSC is much...

I'm going to assume you've carefully tested with the High speed compression adjuster on the shock, but I don't see it mentioned.  The HSC is much more sensitive on the Austrian bikes than the Japanese bikes.   1/4 turn can be the difference between plush on accel chop or refusing to move.  It's a fine balance between getting the plushness you want while still maintaining enough anti-squat and chassis balance for cornering.

Also if it’s too soft on the high speed it will swap towards the end of the whoops as it packs up. 

1
5/23/2023 2:57pm
FGR01 wrote:
I'm going to assume you've carefully tested with the High speed compression adjuster on the shock, but I don't see it mentioned.  The HSC is much...

I'm going to assume you've carefully tested with the High speed compression adjuster on the shock, but I don't see it mentioned.  The HSC is much more sensitive on the Austrian bikes than the Japanese bikes.   1/4 turn can be the difference between plush on accel chop or refusing to move.  It's a fine balance between getting the plushness you want while still maintaining enough anti-squat and chassis balance for cornering.

I actually had better luck closing the hsc and opening the lsc. Talked with a tuner that believes the small chop often doesn't move enough oil to overcome what's feeding back through the rebound and the low speed to really open the hsc adjuster stack. With the high speed turned in a bit it seemed to help the bike hold up a little better through the turn and on the way out. 

5/23/2023 3:01pm
FGR01 wrote:
I'm going to assume you've carefully tested with the High speed compression adjuster on the shock, but I don't see it mentioned.  The HSC is much...

I'm going to assume you've carefully tested with the High speed compression adjuster on the shock, but I don't see it mentioned.  The HSC is much more sensitive on the Austrian bikes than the Japanese bikes.   1/4 turn can be the difference between plush on accel chop or refusing to move.  It's a fine balance between getting the plushness you want while still maintaining enough anti-squat and chassis balance for cornering.

AJ565 wrote:

Also if it’s too soft on the high speed it will swap towards the end of the whoops as it packs up. 

I'm currently running the ohlins shock which doesn't have separate high/low compression adjustments. I'm waiting on a softer spring to come in for it as my static sag is on the low end of the scale - I think the 38n/mm I have coming is going to put me to the higher side but I think it will be better for me there. Wait and see on that I guess

erik_94COBRA
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5/24/2023 8:34am Edited Date/Time 5/24/2023 8:43am
Travis610 wrote:
I have been chasing a better setup on the rear end of my '17 TC125 and am wondering if anyone else has had issues with it...

I have been chasing a better setup on the rear end of my '17 TC125 and am wondering if anyone else has had issues with it being harsh on acceleration bumps? Have tried oem '17 valving, oem '18 valving, gold valve, WP Trax valved for me, N10Z, and currently running an Ohlins TTX Flow. The oem '18 and N10Z have seemed to be the best so far and the Trax was the worst. Bike has always jumped/handled well but my back can't take the spine tingling acceleration hits like it used to.. Rode a friend's '21 (?) CRF250 on the same track/day and couldn't believe how well the back end worked on it

On my '17 TC250, I had a similar issue originally.  When I would dial in LSC and HSC enough to be good over most of the track, it would be too harsh in certain sections (particularly on acceleration bumps).  If you soften compression to make it more comfortable there and in other rough sections, then it's too soft overall everywhere else.  Pretty typical motocross suspension dilemma, but the stock shock was more problematic for me than on other bikes.  One other note, the front to rear balance is pretty important on these bikes and the early AER forks rode higher and blew through more than later ones (or revalved ones).

The aftermarket linkages are all a little different, but all primarily affect the later parts of the shock travel.  Many threads on here about that: https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Tech-Help-Race-Shop,42/Factory-Connectio…; Would be surprised if you're using that much travel on acceleration bumps. (edit: another link about linkages: https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/tech-helprace-shop/best-ktm-linkage)

A revalve that's matched to whatever linkage you have will be better than stock.  Had mine revalved by Enzo (TX location) and it was good enough that I never considered different linkages again.  A revalve by Enzo or REP would likely fix those issues without any problem.  

 

1
5/29/2023 3:03pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2023 5:53am

Spent a day at the track on my original WP shock with '18 valving. Track stayed pretty smooth and by the time it was getting rough later in the day I was worn out. My last time out when it was getting a bit chopped up I lost about 5 seconds a lap (2:15 laps turned into 2:20 laps) it felt like I was losing rear wheel traction. The Wp shock feels like it moves around a lot more than the ohlins if that makes sense? I still think there's potential in that ohlins, going to pull it down and remove the spool valve to make sure it's all good. Also going to try some spectro shock oil which specs out almost the same as the ohlins oil - the Maxima I normally use is slightly heavier on the cSt specs

6/3/2023 5:52am

Pulled down the TTX to make sure there wasn't an issue in the spool valve or that I missed something the first time through, and found that the shaft is bent. It has .102" runout when I measured it - almost 1/8"!! Have a new shaft ordered but the eta in Canada is mid October.

lumpy790
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6/3/2023 11:21am
Travis610 wrote:
Pulled down the TTX to make sure there wasn't an issue in the spool valve or that I missed something the first time through, and found...

Pulled down the TTX to make sure there wasn't an issue in the spool valve or that I missed something the first time through, and found that the shaft is bent. It has .102" runout when I measured it - almost 1/8"!! Have a new shaft ordered but the eta in Canada is mid October.

Sounds like a linkage or shock bearing may have seized causing the bind that bent the shaft.

I had a shaft eyelet end snap off on my 1985 500CR husky and I think that may have been the reason why.

6/3/2023 11:29am
Travis610 wrote:
Pulled down the TTX to make sure there wasn't an issue in the spool valve or that I missed something the first time through, and found...

Pulled down the TTX to make sure there wasn't an issue in the spool valve or that I missed something the first time through, and found that the shaft is bent. It has .102" runout when I measured it - almost 1/8"!! Have a new shaft ordered but the eta in Canada is mid October.

lumpy790 wrote:
Sounds like a linkage or shock bearing may have seized causing the bind that bent the shaft. I had a shaft eyelet end snap off on...

Sounds like a linkage or shock bearing may have seized causing the bind that bent the shaft.

I had a shaft eyelet end snap off on my 1985 500CR husky and I think that may have been the reason why.

Will re-check everything when it goes back in but there are contact marks in the clevis that don't match up to anything on my linkage. Think I'll put it in without the spring so I can run it through the travel and be sure

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