Hey all,
I recently upgraded from a mod 2020 crf250r (vortex, Tokyo Mods motor, a-kit cone valve suspension, etc) to a 23 yz450f.
I was deciding between the new 350f or yz450f and went with the Yamaha. I’m liking it a lot so far but trying to adjust to the power to see if I mad the right decision, I've been playing with the power tuner app to smooth everything out the best I can to see if this is the platform I’d want to ride on for awhile or sell to pick up the 350f and do a spring swap. My questions are:
1. What maps are you guys running to best smooth out the power? I’ve also heard that changing the gearing from stock to 14-52 is the ‘magic’ set up to get smooth linear power as well as running the smooth map. What could I expect if I do this change?
2. I know it’s stock suspension, but before I invest what set ups have you guys had luck with? I think I’ve figured out the shock enough to feel comfortable but the forks seem to be incredibly harsh in chop and seems twitchy. I’ve tried the Keefer set up but that was way to harsh for me.
I don’t race much anymore but would say I’m higher level intermediate. 165lb, running a 104 sag with 4mm showing on the forks. I ride the Colorado local tracks (IMI, Thunder, Aztec, etc).
Thanks for the help!
Hey Austin, I was in the same boat as you for trying to make the bike more rideable. I came off mod 250, then 350, now yz450.
The game changer mod fir Yamaha was Twisted Vortex with “Rideable map”. Im trying not to over hype it but this map made me go from whiskey throttle, feet off coming out of turns to ultra smooth and can’t do no wrong power. It’s a big price tag but if you have rode the “smooth linear” map, it’s more exaggerated than that while still staying connected and free.
As far as forks, I think the spring is too stiff for me. I’m 180lb, so at 165 I’d go a rate softer. Have you tried compression all the way open? I took out 15cc of fluid and going to try that. Maybe I’ll take more out?
The 14/52 will make the gearing slightly less snappy off the bottom. My worry is that I’m not sure if it’s going to make the bike squat more or less under throttle. Supposedly it will free up the suspension a bit under tight chain tension. I’m interested in trying.
Hope that info helps!
A little farther down the forum is a multi page thread on this bike - and yes it's twitchy with a harsh front end. (amongst other things)
How far did u get with the testing and did it tame this bike down ?? the app maps only seem to do so much ??
Did you try the 23 350f and move from there? I’m still considering it but wanted to work with the Yamaha more before I make the decision. I’ve heard it was a big improvement but thought I’d be saving money by going with the Yamaha to avoid putting in a vortex and a spring suspension conversion as I’ve grown up on spring and just am not a fan of air.
The smooth linear map was great, I dialed everything back -1 from that and set traction control on high and it felt much better!
I had a feeling that I might be too lightweight for the spring, I’ve tried running compression pretty far out these are the stats:
Fork:
Comp-16 out
Rebound- 14 out
Shock:
Comp Low-13 out
Rebound-15 out
Hi-comp- 1.5 turns out
The shock feels much better and connected but the fork seems to have that harshness in chatter but when I go out on compression more the slight over-jump hits hard and is 2.5” from bottoming.
The 14/52 gearing really interests me for that reason, I’ve heard it could be a big positive to free up the chain tension to allow the suspension and frame to work better. It’s a cheaper solution to try in the mean time! I just didn’t know if I would be giving anything up speed/ shift points on the track.
thank you for the info!!
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I believe I have read it! From what I gather my next step could be running that 14/52 gearing and running the rear axle as far back as I can (maybe get some ride engineering blocks). Coming off the Honda I’m kinda use to a little twitch as I rode a stock before the mod so I’m hoping if/when I send suspension out to Enzo that will subside. Ideally I’d like to make it as comfortable as I can suspension wise so I can test the power characteristic more to decided if it’s the bike for me or I just go with the 23 and up 350.
I have had luck smoothing the power out by adding fuel to every position and reducing ignition in every position, but also adjusting the throttle % value on the map. Take a look at the maps on Keefer's site to see the throttle % value's he used in his maps and mirror those. My favorite so far is simple, just +3 on fuel and -3 on ignition across the map with lower throttle % values like the Keefer maps. This has a little more power than the smooth map, but feels more linear and smooth across the range. This will not be as smooth as the Twisted Vortex, but it is worth a try. I am much heavier than you at 225 so I had to go up on the shock spring 2 rates, but I am happy at 2mm fork height and 105 sag with stock clicker settings.
This will sound crazy - but he fork is way soft - turn the comp in to 4-5 and ride it ? i had the same complaints and it improved but heavier springs and way more comp valving. Turn the rebound in a bit also as it will add some compression.
Personally I have a 23 350sx and my son just got a 24 450 Yamaha after being on a 22 450 Honda.
Biggest question is when taking about these two bikes is what’s your riding style and skill level?
I grew up on two strokes and unfortunately still kinda ride a four stroke that way. The 23 350sx is an awesome bike for me for that reason. Riding a 450 that way just wears me out and honestly, bad shit can happen quick. For me, the 350 is more manageable, especially when tired. For reference I’m 190lbs and race 50 expert. I’ve told anyone who’s asked if the bike had 10% more power across the board I’d never own another 450. I put a Vortex on it and couldn’t be happier. I’m riding the stock air forks with a revalve and am pretty happy with them. For the record this is my first set of air forks so I’m not partial. My buddy recently rode my bike and has since sold his cone valves as he thought the air was better. Maybe he didn’t have the right person set them up???
Just like the Honda my son has the Yamaha is a rocket in stock form for the average guy imo.
Some guys like my son just like the power of a 450. He’s local pro speed and even though he’s fast on my 350 he really doesn’t prefer to ride a bike higher in the rpm range.
I can say with certainty someone your weight won’t lack power on a 23-24 350. Just really depends on how you want to ride your bike and what you have the most fun on. Just my two cents
Have you gone all the way down on timing map? If not, set the fuel to the smooth map and then bottom out the timing. If it's too smooth you can always add more timing back in. After 5 years of the Yamaha tuning app I find a happy setting for fuel and then just use timing to adjust the power.
Yes the Vortex and GET ECU give the tuners much more perimeters to make more detailed maps. I rode the bike with the stick ecu and tried 5 maps, GET ECU that was mapped with a low engine braking/smooth pulling map and Vortex by Twisted. Yes The TD Vortex completely transformed the bike to an easy ride machine. Even at the end of the day, 2pm and beat up it was easy to ride, soft and clickable in my opinion.
Example of the 2 softwares below.
Hey Austin, yes I came off the 23 Husky. Sold it after 15 hours because I just couldn’t get comfortable when the track got dry and rough.
If I was you, I’d try comp all the way open then adjust rebound to fit your style. If it’s still stiff, then it’s springs. Or oil level. My suspension is valved by Enzo from previous owner. Check out some data from suspension acquisition I mounted on my bike last week. Fork was with clickers wide open Vs shock is like 4 clicks from closed. In my opinion rear is soft(or correct), front is stiff.
Reduce the torque on your engine mounts by 25%. Put your lower fork clamp bolts at 15nm.
I understand the gearing change is less expensive but it’s not going to change the top end grunt. The TD ecu literally made it feel like a different bike. The thing to be careful with custom maps because when I was testing with Jamie from Twisted. We tried a few ideas to try and make the bike feel lighter or add fuel or subtract fuel. In some areas, the bike was awesome like connection but also made the chassis super tight and suspension feel stiff. So just be aware it’s easy to go in the wrong direction! We kept going back to the rideable map and it was everything I wanted coming from the 350.
I’ll give this a try! I was worried that it was too soft and sits too low in the stroke but I didn’t notice it blowing through on any of the jumps. Worth a shot though! Thanks!
Thanks for this! I pretty much grew up on a 250 as I started riding late (at 13, I should’ve started on a 125 haha). After getting the mod crf I definitely knew I needed to learn how to ride it and focus on some more techniques, so I purchased a 22 yz125 and spent a season on it to refine some skills and it helped me ride the mod better as the thing loved to live in the mid to top rpm’s.
I demoed the yz450f in Leadville (10,500 elevation) and absolutely loved it. I was able to stretch out the gears more and liked not having to shift as much. But the elevation change (5,000 ft) makes a big difference so I’m trying to see if I can replicate the delivery as if I was in Leadville. I really was searching for something that I didn’t have to be super on my game to ride like the 250. I felt like I was shifting a ton to be in the right rpm and was working hard to carry speed to hit jumps vs the 450f it was much easier at elevation. I use to ride my Dads 11’ crf450r and loved it so that’s why I jumped on the Yz as I found a good deal. Now I’m just fighting some raw power and learning smoother throttle control because the power is at my finger tips.
I’m definitely a weekend warrior type of rider now as I like to go fast and hit all the big jumps and carry speed in corners, (definitely a upper C or mid-rear pack B rider). I definitely live in the mid range and like to stretch the gears out even on the 450.
I’ll give this a shot, I was worried about playing with timing too much as I thought this could affect some longevity in the engine/ exhaust gases getting to hot, etc (But then again Yamaha wouldn’t allow you to adjust -10 if it wasn’t safe right?) maybe just my cautious thinking/ lack of tuning knowledge haha
Joe, do you still have thoughts of possibly going back to a 350?
Or are you 100% sure this journey with the 450 is where your going to stay put?
I'm currently on a 23 350, but am pondering a 450, as I'm more of a lugger when riding, and don't fear the grim reaper on a 350, as I would a 450.
I need a few more days and some different tracks before I know if I’m 100% set on this bike. I’ll say that 3 days on this Yamaha have been more fun than the 15 hours I put on my Husky 350.
In the end, I just want a bike that I’ll put in the garage and be excited for the next time I can take it out. Unfortunately that feeling on my 350 was not as often. There were days that I was pumped on it, mostly in the mornings when the track was soft and deep. But once it got firm and dry, I had no fun. So maybe if I lived somewhere with good dirt the Husky would be fine for me?
Going to try the yammy on some different tracks this week, hoping for good results!
Picking up a 24 this week. Question CarlinoJoeVideo, is the best way to remove the shock, remove seat and tank and slide shock up? Sorry for hi jacking this thread but didnt know where else to ask
Yes, exactly. Comes out pretty quick
Pit Row
Yeah super easy pulling it out the top.
Great assessment, and that's exactly where Im at.
I'm not riding as much lately, the excitement just isn't there. I usually want to ride till the end of the day, less people on the track.
As you mentioned, when the track dries and is nasty, the bike just isn't as comfortable as I'v been on past Yamahas.
I ride up in Norcal, so tracks are mostly the same as yours.
We look forward to your on going Yamaha review's.
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