flarider

Ivan
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 6:21pm
Yes

1. If we had continued the same path, things would be worse. While I don't like the deficit spending any more than you do, it was a necessary evil in turning around the economy, which is showing signs of slowly turning. You cannot stop a speeding out of control train in ten feet, it takes miles and miles. Same here, cannot turn the economy in a matter of days, but you have to slow it down and then turn it, and those signs are there. Anyone demanding immediate results is either ignorant or partisan

2. Our position and relationship throughout the world has vastly improved in a short period of time.


I cant believe you made that statement. What change in the path has taken place? Obama has taken over the runaway train that Bush gave him and floored the accelerator.
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MX479Guy
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7/8/2009 4:19pm
It's OK because Obama knows what he's doing, and he's fixing the Bush mess.

Thats what i keep hearing.

Things take time, yes. But so far things are getting worse.
7/8/2009 4:26pm
You can't just stop a runaway train. You have to slow it down gradually. That means it's going to move a lot farther down the track by the time you get it stopped and can start it back moving in the other direction. And as far as "so far things are getting worse," what do you mean? Besides the debt, which is definitely getting worse, what's getting worse in the economy?
WhipMeister
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7/8/2009 4:45pm
No need to google. The dem congress' puppet Obama has responded to a slowing, already-over-extended, shrinking margin economy by raising the credit limit some 8x and raising taxes further squeezing margins. That's like expanding your credit card balance 8-fold, while halving your salary.

But nothing to see here. It'll all work out somehow.

Hope and change at work.

We better hope it changes, soon.
flarider
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7/8/2009 5:32pm
While unemployment may still be rising, which is no surprise, it is now doing so at a slower rate than previous months.
Home starts and construction projects, incrementally, are increasing
Credit, while it's only a trickle at this point, is beginning to loosen up
and while the GDP may still be shrinking some, it is now doing so at a slower rate.

That is the slowing of the train, which doesn't happen immediately
But there is evidence of that train slowing, and that is key to any turn-around

You can find bias on either side to bolster whatever opinion you want, but I can see an improving economy, but it's small...which is where it will start

Rome wasn't built in a day

and we didn't get to this point in a day either

The Shop

7/8/2009 6:11pm
No need to google. The dem congress' puppet Obama has responded to a slowing, already-over-extended, shrinking margin economy by raising the credit limit some 8x and...
No need to google. The dem congress' puppet Obama has responded to a slowing, already-over-extended, shrinking margin economy by raising the credit limit some 8x and raising taxes further squeezing margins. That's like expanding your credit card balance 8-fold, while halving your salary.

But nothing to see here. It'll all work out somehow.

Hope and change at work.

We better hope it changes, soon.
I said, "Besides the debt, which is definitely getting worse, what's getting worse in the economy?" Then you bring up the debt. Amazing.
`ol Ger
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7/8/2009 8:41pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:49am
How's that hope & change working out for you? Smile

Obama is like a visiting relative sponging off of you who refuses to leave.


g
jmar
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7/8/2009 9:08pm
It's going to take much more than a President to fix this mess were in today. The slight up swing isn't going to last long and the major train wreck is a few years down the road.

All we are doing today is propping up the very same people that caused this mess to begin with and no one is doing anything that will keep them from doing the same thing again.

The next wreck is going to be much worse.

Crash82
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7/9/2009 5:52am
flarider wrote:
While unemployment may still be rising, which is no surprise, it is now doing so at a slower rate than previous months. Home starts and construction...
While unemployment may still be rising, which is no surprise, it is now doing so at a slower rate than previous months.
Home starts and construction projects, incrementally, are increasing
Credit, while it's only a trickle at this point, is beginning to loosen up
and while the GDP may still be shrinking some, it is now doing so at a slower rate.

That is the slowing of the train, which doesn't happen immediately
But there is evidence of that train slowing, and that is key to any turn-around

You can find bias on either side to bolster whatever opinion you want, but I can see an improving economy, but it's small...which is where it will start

Rome wasn't built in a day

and we didn't get to this point in a day either
It would have turned around without throwing away all that money, I blame all the crooked government officials. I wish we had more folks on here that came up with their own material, instead of just posting what they read on the internet or saw on TV.
rallendude
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7/9/2009 6:13am
The huge deficit and unleashed spending seriously concern me. But what's worse is all the legislation that's being pushed that is going to prevent us from ever recovering any of that debt long term. Things like the cap and trade. This will negatively effect our country's industry for years to come. Getting ourselves back out of it (cap and trade) will be almost impossible.

Nationalized healthcare is another way we are going to be prevented from recovering.

This administration looks like a kid in a candy store.

Off the subject a little, has anyone heard anything else lately about the whole lead ban deal? Where does that stand? Are we going to be rationing minis again after the end of the year?
flarider
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7/9/2009 6:29am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:49am
I don't like cap and trade, but I can see its intent. Doesn't mean I agree. I also said before that the only way to make people conserve fuels is to make it more expensive. When gas was $4 a gallon, people drove less and sales of gas sucking SUV's dropped like a rock. People and government have begged for decades for people to conserve and it all fell on deaf ears. Well, last year proved that the dollar makes people listen. I don't like cap and trade because they've never been clear on where the money goes (that I am aware of) as well as other things.


IMO, a healthy citizenship is a productive citizenship. There is plenty of documentation of billions of dollars of work production lost annually due to illness and disease. A healthy America is a working and productive America.A productive America is an earning America and an earning America is a tax paying and spending America.


The lead deal is on a "stay," meaning it is not being enforced at this time and is being reexamined for revisions
`ol Ger
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7/9/2009 6:35am
"IMO, a healthy citizenship is a productive citizenship. There is plenty of documentation of billions of dollars of work production lost annually due to illness and disease. A healthy America is a working and productive America.A productive America is an earning America and an earning America is a tax paying and spending America." Every now and then, the trapped capitalist inside a liberal gets to peek through the tapestry.

Hi capitalist Dave.



oG
rallendude
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7/9/2009 6:49am
My big problem with Cap and Trade is it's all based on Global Warming, which not only hasn't been proven but has tons of data to show otherwise.

So, the greenies are telling my corporation that the carbon we release into the atmosphere is contributing to global warming, which is in turn going to cause our world to become uninhabitable. So they decide I can do one of two things. I can reduce my emmissions by some set amount every year until it becomes so expensive it can't happen anymore, OR I can just buy credits from some other company that has done so.

If global warming is causing an end to the earth, there should be NO way around us reducing our carbon emmissions. If we are killing the earth there can't be any buy outs. It's all about money and they've found another way to milk it out of the american industry. You think high fuel prices caused some economy issues, just wait until this comes to reality.

I will agree that healthy americans earn more and cost less to maintain. However, national health care is not the answer to that. Someone needs to take a closer look at the finances of the medical industry. Can you explain why when I go to the doc for a broken clavical, ribs, and punctured lung, I get a bill from the hospital for let's say $16,700 for my two day stay. While after I show them I have insurance (for the third time) they come back and say they've agreed to accept payment of $9865 from my insurance company. That's where our problems lie. We don't need the government regulating health care, telling docs what they can charge and who they can administer care to.

The government needs a good slap in the face. A wake up call to let them know that we the people don't need them medling in our business and trying to clamp down on any subject they feel they can. They laws they legislate and the courts that uphold them can't even charge and sentence criminals correctly. I don't need them running GM, or investigating drugs in baseball, or telling me what doctor I can go see. I want them to do what they are supposed to do and do it right.

I haven't heard anything about the lead law lately and really wonder IF anyone is looking at it or will it show up again next year, unchanged.
flarider
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7/9/2009 7:07am
rallendude wrote:
My big problem with Cap and Trade is it's all based on Global Warming, which not only hasn't been proven but has tons of data to...
My big problem with Cap and Trade is it's all based on Global Warming, which not only hasn't been proven but has tons of data to show otherwise.

So, the greenies are telling my corporation that the carbon we release into the atmosphere is contributing to global warming, which is in turn going to cause our world to become uninhabitable. So they decide I can do one of two things. I can reduce my emmissions by some set amount every year until it becomes so expensive it can't happen anymore, OR I can just buy credits from some other company that has done so.

If global warming is causing an end to the earth, there should be NO way around us reducing our carbon emmissions. If we are killing the earth there can't be any buy outs. It's all about money and they've found another way to milk it out of the american industry. You think high fuel prices caused some economy issues, just wait until this comes to reality.

I will agree that healthy americans earn more and cost less to maintain. However, national health care is not the answer to that. Someone needs to take a closer look at the finances of the medical industry. Can you explain why when I go to the doc for a broken clavical, ribs, and punctured lung, I get a bill from the hospital for let's say $16,700 for my two day stay. While after I show them I have insurance (for the third time) they come back and say they've agreed to accept payment of $9865 from my insurance company. That's where our problems lie. We don't need the government regulating health care, telling docs what they can charge and who they can administer care to.

The government needs a good slap in the face. A wake up call to let them know that we the people don't need them medling in our business and trying to clamp down on any subject they feel they can. They laws they legislate and the courts that uphold them can't even charge and sentence criminals correctly. I don't need them running GM, or investigating drugs in baseball, or telling me what doctor I can go see. I want them to do what they are supposed to do and do it right.

I haven't heard anything about the lead law lately and really wonder IF anyone is looking at it or will it show up again next year, unchanged.
I agree, climate change is smoke and mirrors bullshit.
If they had said it was for fuel conservation to ween us off foreign oils and other power sources and that the money was going to go back into oil exploration and researching alternative sources, I believe I and others would feel better about it.

But to tag it to GW just sucks and pisses people off
rallendude
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7/9/2009 7:09am
I agree. I'd probaly try and participate if it had been sold that way.
7/9/2009 7:40am
You can't just stop a runaway train. You have to slow it down gradually. That means it's going to move a lot farther down the track...
You can't just stop a runaway train. You have to slow it down gradually. That means it's going to move a lot farther down the track by the time you get it stopped and can start it back moving in the other direction. And as far as "so far things are getting worse," what do you mean? Besides the debt, which is definitely getting worse, what's getting worse in the economy?
With all the yacking in this thread, no one can answer that question?
7/9/2009 7:41am
flarider wrote:
While unemployment may still be rising, which is no surprise, it is now doing so at a slower rate than previous months. Home starts and construction...
While unemployment may still be rising, which is no surprise, it is now doing so at a slower rate than previous months.
Home starts and construction projects, incrementally, are increasing
Credit, while it's only a trickle at this point, is beginning to loosen up
and while the GDP may still be shrinking some, it is now doing so at a slower rate.

That is the slowing of the train, which doesn't happen immediately
But there is evidence of that train slowing, and that is key to any turn-around

You can find bias on either side to bolster whatever opinion you want, but I can see an improving economy, but it's small...which is where it will start

Rome wasn't built in a day

and we didn't get to this point in a day either
Crash82 wrote:
It would have turned around without throwing away all that money, I blame all the crooked government officials. I wish we had more folks on here...
It would have turned around without throwing away all that money, I blame all the crooked government officials. I wish we had more folks on here that came up with their own material, instead of just posting what they read on the internet or saw on TV.
Yeah, because you come up with this stuff all on your own. You don't get it from any outside sources.
Ivan
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7/9/2009 4:14pm
You can't just stop a runaway train. You have to slow it down gradually. That means it's going to move a lot farther down the track...
You can't just stop a runaway train. You have to slow it down gradually. That means it's going to move a lot farther down the track by the time you get it stopped and can start it back moving in the other direction. And as far as "so far things are getting worse," what do you mean? Besides the debt, which is definitely getting worse, what's getting worse in the economy?
With all the yacking in this thread, no one can answer that question?
Nobody wants to answer mine either.
"What change in path has takes place? (With regards to the economy)
We are on the same path and things are worse.
flarider
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7/9/2009 4:19pm
So you ignored my response?

or are you just disregarding it?


Ivan
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7/9/2009 4:25pm
I did see it, but it didn't address my question. I'll rephrase it: what has Obama done, that represents a change in direction from what GW was doing in response to the financial crisis.? You said "If we had continued the same path, things would be worse." From that I assumed you meant that Obama made some sort of change in policy toward the crisis. All we have seen is the same policy in turbo mode.
09450f
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7/9/2009 4:39pm
turbo mode..when the government keeps spending even tho the public doesn't like it but they know the taxpayers won't do a thing about it..

join termlimits.com/
flarider
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7/9/2009 4:46pm
Ivan wrote:
I did see it, but it didn't address my question. I'll rephrase it: what has Obama done, that represents a change in direction from what GW...
I did see it, but it didn't address my question. I'll rephrase it: what has Obama done, that represents a change in direction from what GW was doing in response to the financial crisis.? You said "If we had continued the same path, things would be worse." From that I assumed you meant that Obama made some sort of change in policy toward the crisis. All we have seen is the same policy in turbo mode.
Really?
The same policies, nothing different?
Ivan
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7/9/2009 4:52pm
I wouldn't have started another thread on a minor point but I was honoring the request of the topic author. There are things that Obama is doing that are different than Gw's or McCane's policies that I think are good. One of them is ramping down in Iraq and ramping up in Afghanistan. We left that place in a lurch so we could play nation conqueror. I like his position on the stem cell issue too. Come to think of it, that's about it.
flarider
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7/9/2009 5:05pm
flarider wrote:
Really?
The same policies, nothing different?
Ivan
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7/9/2009 5:40pm
flarider wrote:
Really?
The same policies, nothing different?
flarider wrote:
Maybe in other areas but not in the handling of the financial issue. At least so far.
Nerd
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7/9/2009 7:32pm
flarider wrote:
Really?
The same policies, nothing different?
flarider wrote:
Ivan wrote:
Maybe in other areas but not in the handling of the financial issue. At least so far.
He's called for more oversight of the banking and financial industries. That's one thing.
flarider
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7/9/2009 7:37pm
$15B made available to boost and start small business

and then there's the Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act to make sure the cheating and bullshit that caused this is not only investigated, but those who benefitted are prosecuted....Look at Madoff and Stanford as early examples, with many more to come
(in case I have to hold your hand on this one, it instills investor confidence back into the system)
Nerd
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7/9/2009 7:41pm
I don't understand the logic that says that since the government didn't do its job with Madoff and things like that, that the answer is to let Madoff go unchecked next time.

Can you explain it to me?
7/9/2009 8:18pm
Trini suffered a severe head injury a couple of years ago.

Cut him some slack.
flarider
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7/9/2009 8:21pm
and he's like 12, right?


CR250Rider
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7/9/2009 8:48pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:50am
Don't worry, Obama is planning a second stimulus package....



slick willie part two

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