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Ohhhhhhhhh, you meant Wind Turbine Generators.
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Very long ROI.........10 to 15 years, but definitely doable. Be careful.........a lot of scammers out there.
Any company that claims to have a small roof mounted turbine that will make a dent in your power = automatic scam.
House roof is too low, and not strong enough to support a decent turbine.
For a 10KW, with all of the electronics..........battery backup (usually 4 or 6 group 31 AGM deep cells), inverter, and grid tie in..........you're looking at around 15 to 20 grand.
Best to be at 100 feet above ground level, 33 is about a minimum.
Cheapest towers are guy wired.
A combo of solar and a wind turbine, with grid tie in and battery back up seems to have a lot of potential for the rural homeowner.
The way it works is..........when you use a lot, what the wind turbine/solar can't provide, comes off the grid. When you aren't using the full output of the turbine/solar.........it feeds back into the grid and the electric company pays you. Basically........you don't run off the alt system..........you let it "slow down your meter" or even better, "spin it backwards".
Decent potential as a way to augment or reduce your dependence.
You really need to have at least a 10 to 12 mph constant wind at the elevation above ground you want to put the turbine.
The new gen of vertical turbines are neat as well, just as pricey.
Need to stand it up as close to the electric box as possible......the further away, the more expensive it gets.
If you are a decent wrench and good at figuring things out.........plenty of "how to's on building the same type of axial load generators the major companies who supply small turbines use........building the stuff yourself from scratch with just the grid tie in electronics could get you rolling at about 25% of the average consumer's electric bill for just a couple grand.
http://www.fuhrlaender.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&…
Check out the movie on that page.
There are some residential units available. Like this:
http://www.bergey.com/
read the article "Betting the farm"...it's pretty good.
Some thoughts:
1) What is the available wind energy in your area? Is it year round? Is it steady? There are charts for wind energy. The best source is steady and around 10-15 mph from what I've seen. Too fast and the turbine can't take advantage of it and can also experience damage.
2) There is equipment involved. The article referenced says it requires an inverter. This is a piece of power electronics that converts "wild" or unregulated AC to DC and back to AC. This WILL require maintenance. It has power transistors that won't last forever and capacitors that will require replacement probably every year to 18 months. (That's a guess based on experience w/ similar equipment).
Ger, you got my email address...I don't do residential power, but I'll be glad to assist with any questions you have. I work in and know lots of engineers in the power business. I like what you are considering and have thought about it myself.
Oh...one thing about the article. I think there is some real BS in there. They say the couple was paid $1.19/KWH for their wind power. That's pretty much impossible. End users typically pay less than $0.20/kwh so I think the story is wrong on that point. Unless it's gubmint subsidies. STILL, its a cool project!
stay in touch.
Wind power supply to be boosted
The government has announced plans for a huge increase in offshore wind power.
Up to 7,000 new turbines are hoped to be built by 2020, trebling the amount of power to be generated by wind farm projects currently under development.
The Crown Estate, which owns the UK seabed, has agreed to invest up to 50% of the cost of obtaining planning consent for wind farm sites.
It is hoped the scheme will see the delivery of up to 25 gigawatts of electricity by wind power in 12 years.
Wind power boost
Energy firms will in due course be invited to bid for sites to develop wind farms, earmarked by the Crown Estate and the Department for Business, Enterprise & Regulatory Reform (BERR).
In a preliminary analysis, 11 zones around the British coastline have been identified by the Crown Estate as the most economically suited for their levels of wind, water depth and potential connection to the grid.
The Crown Estate said shipping and environmental concerns would also be taken into account.
Consultations are continuing and should be concluded by the first half of 2009.
The rapid development of offshore wind capacity is central to the delivery of the UK's share of the EU target of providing 20% of its energy requirements through renewable resources by 2020.
Central strategy
Peter Carney, offshore programme delivery director at the British Wind Energy Association, told the BBC that if the government's target of 33 gigawatts of offshore wind capacity was met in the next 12 years, this would cater for all UK households' electricity requirements.
"The government has committed to challenging carbon targets and wind energy is the only renewable technology that can deliver the required quantity by the required timescales," said Rob Hastings, the Crown Estate's director of marine estates.
Malcolm Wicks, minister for energy, said the growth of wind energy was already a "real success" in the UK.
He hoped that the next phase of expansion would "provide developers with confidence to make investments much earlier on, like signing grid connection agreements or ordering turbines".
"We are working to reduce other barriers such as radar, shipping, grid access and infrastructure issues. We will be consulting in the summer to drive this forward even further to achieve our renewable energy targets," he added.
Controversy
While offshore wind farms have been welcomed by some green groups, others have been concerned about the consequences of wildlife, spoiling coastal landscapes and the interruption of shipping routes.
Royal Dutch Shell recently withdrew from a project that was set to become the world's largest wind farm in favour of investing in renewable energy in the US because of the high costs involved.
Maria McCaffery, chief executive of industry group the British Wind Energy Association, told the BBC that while the start-up costs were higher than setting up a gas-fired power station, there were no equivalent fuel and transport costs.
Wind turbines have also been criticised for being an unreliable source of power, dependent on wind patterns.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/business/7434915.stm
THERES ALOT OF SOLAR SHIT ON THIS SITE..
I'm also not sure where it stands in all 50 states, I only researched AZ, but in AZ the utilities have to buy it back from you at fair market value. Which means that if you generate more than you use, and after your service fee (won't be a tax if you put back more into the system than you used), they have to pay you the difference. This will show up as a credit on your bill, basically just like if you overpaid, which you can either leave on account and carry over..........or go down to the utility company and get a check.
If you have a very efficient, small footprint home and you don't use electricity for your clothes dryer, oven, run a swamp cooler as opposed to AC, and don't use electric heat........it is very feasible to have a negative electric bill every month.
I think it stems more from my German tightwad investment spirit. If it can demonstrate a 10-year break-even, I would do it. Makes good economic sense.
A few people I know in NV are going Geothermal.
http://earthcomfort.com/
Even a small side residential/farm turbine is going to have an 8 foot blade diameter.....bare minimum............up 15 foot. The torque on that puppy in even 12mph winds will start ripping up your roof............and 30 or 50 mph winds........sumbitch is gone.
I suggest you find a local, or at least in your state, company that offers a variety of products, and a warranty. Check their references. Also.........consider a service agreement. They don't need much maintenance..........but if you do it and you have to pull down a 100 foot tower on guy wires once a year........bit of a pain in the ass you know?
Pit Row
Either way........not a bad deal. Even if they didn't have to pay you for excess.......the fact that you can basically use the utility company as short term storage is worth the grid tie-in.
http://www.infiniacorp.com
http://www.infiniacorp.com
Seriously.......do the math on the advertised output.........and that's the advertised, which will not be close to reality.
If you're paying less than 10 to 20K for a turnkey........it's a scam.
If you're paying less than 5 - 10K for a 10kw turbine w/tower alone...........it's a scam.
There is no such thing as a 900 wind turbine that will provide more than a fart in a blizzard for your electric bill.
Of course.........everyday people buy fuel line magnets, gas tank pills, plans to run their car on water, and roost boosts...............so do what you want.
Total scam. They are known not to work. Basically.......the math doesn't lie. The Air-X 400 watt model is rated with a 28mph wind..........simply not realistic. This would put it closer to 150 watts at a more realistic 10 to 12 mph average wind. 150 watts isn't a fart in a windstorm, but it's something. Except if you research them.........you'll find that most people are hard pressed to get 30 watts out of 'em.
I doubt very likely they are "off the grid" with just rooftop PV panels, especially since only 1/2 the panels will be operating close to peak efficiency through the majority of the daylight hours............unless they have very little electric consumption or they've made significant lifestyle changes to accomodate........IE, no AC or electric refrigeration. A 1200 sq foot home with gas appliances (water heater, dryer, and stove) and a single standard electric refrigerator and dishwasher uses about 800kwh a month........so you can work backwards from that and figure it out yourself. I have all electric appliances, plus a private well......1800 sq foot, and heated with wood. I average 1700kwh a month. I know lots of people off the grid.......pretty common in rural AZ......we still have a LOT of land that has zero utilities available. The most common setup to live at the same standard as if you were on the grid is a 7.5 kw wind turbine and 10 x 100 watt panels tied into a battery backup system. The home runs off the current output and meets loads or excess requirements from the batteries. When current generation exceeds useage, it charges. This type of system, including all the electrics, tower, installation, inverter, etc.........will run you from 35,000 to 45,000 dollars. It aint' cheap. Now, plenty of folks out there living in school buses with a single 100 watt panel and shittin' in a hole in the ground........but like I said, different standard of living.
You don't want to be "off" the grid.......you want grid tie in. The main reason is.......it lets you use the grid as essentially "storage". When your solar, wind, or hybrid system is producing more than you use.........it creates a net credit..........less, you use the grid electric.
Solar only generates during the day........when you are using the most, very hard to get a net gain over useage. Wind........well, it only works when the wind is blowing. The best systems are a hybrid.........wind turbine and solar combination with a battery backup and grid tie in.
When the grid is down.......you run off the batteries + output of your system. When grid is up, and batteries topped off..........any excess that you don't use feeds the grid. If you don't have a battery backup system.........and the grid goes down.........so does your system ( to prevent back feeding an electric line that somebody may be repairing). The battery backup system has a disconnect. This is the standard configuration.
How often do you replace the batteries in that UPS? Lead-acid?
Genny backup?
Back to the question though....I understand the big AGM true deep cycles last quite a long time.........like 5 years plus or longer. My understanding is that they are all basically golf cart batteries......but I'm no battery expert.
You don't need a genny back up.......the batteries are your backup. If you wanted to......it would be easy to tie in I think.
This is a sample of what they use, this is a trojan T-105. In the particular installation I'm looking at, you use 8 of these hooked up in two parallel strings of 4 batteries each in series for a 24vdc system. Fully charged, they would run a household for 12 hours if your careful (critical appliances) with no wind input. Depending on wind.......you could squeeze a week out on critical stuff with no grid power at all.
http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/T-1056V.aspx
One of the turn key systems I'm looking at will generate up to 300kwh's a month depending on wind. This would be roughly 20% of my overall useage........though I admit I could make some changes and bring it down. In the winter, I would almost break even.
Here's what the 300kwh system looks like.
2x 1kw wind turbines
2x 60 foot towers
DC power setup
2.5kw inverter
Battery setup.
The entire system runs about 13K plus install and setup.
I would augment the above with 500 to 1000 watts of solar as well.......which would theoretically give me about another 75 to 150 kwh a month.
To even think about being self sufficient with modern conveniences......you need at least 5kw of generating power whether wind or solar or both........and even at that you're really looking at bare bones electricity wise. a 7.5 kw system is better, and a 10kw system will easily do a modern home plus. The more you generate, the bigger your backup system. You can also make the battery systems bigger for more storage........the more storage you have, the more likely you can be self sufficient.
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