WTF?

flarider
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Edited Date/Time 1/16/2012 10:42pm
How does the President just give $17B to the automakers without congressional approval?
Bush is just telling Paulsen what to do with the bailout money?
So in essence, the $700B didn't go to the treasury secretary to bail out the economy, it went to Bush to do as he pleases through Paulsen as a puppet.

Congress said no to the automakers, so the President said "fuck you" and did an end around
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Dean
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12/19/2008 6:19am
flarider wrote:
How does the President just give $17B to the automakers without congressional approval? Bush is just telling Paulsen what to do with the bailout money? So...
How does the President just give $17B to the automakers without congressional approval?
Bush is just telling Paulsen what to do with the bailout money?
So in essence, the $700B didn't go to the treasury secretary to bail out the economy, it went to Bush to do as he pleases through Paulsen as a puppet.

Congress said no to the automakers, so the President said "fuck you" and did an end around
and this suprises you?
anyday
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12/19/2008 6:20am
flarider wrote:
How does the President just give $17B to the automakers without congressional approval? Bush is just telling Paulsen what to do with the bailout money? So...
How does the President just give $17B to the automakers without congressional approval?
Bush is just telling Paulsen what to do with the bailout money?
So in essence, the $700B didn't go to the treasury secretary to bail out the economy, it went to Bush to do as he pleases through Paulsen as a puppet.

Congress said no to the automakers, so the President said "fuck you" and did an end around
thank fuk he,s on his way out
sc961
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12/19/2008 6:30am
That is typical politics. When the vote doesn't work, just figure out another way to do what you want.

Al Franken is doing the same thing with the recount process in Mn.

That $700B should never have been allocated in the first place. It's just going to create more debt that can't be paid back..
jmar
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12/19/2008 6:53am
flarider wrote:
How does the President just give $17B to the automakers without congressional approval? Bush is just telling Paulsen what to do with the bailout money? So...
How does the President just give $17B to the automakers without congressional approval?
Bush is just telling Paulsen what to do with the bailout money?
So in essence, the $700B didn't go to the treasury secretary to bail out the economy, it went to Bush to do as he pleases through Paulsen as a puppet.

Congress said no to the automakers, so the President said "fuck you" and did an end around
Not that I give two shits about bush but Obama was in favor of the bail out of the auto makers. What really pisses me off is that it was handed out with out any strings attached so the UAW will be fat and happy until March of 09. After March when the second round of bail out money is needed the UAW will tell everyone to fuck off when it comes time to make concessions and this whole bullshit scenario will start all over again. No business changes, no consessions just more of my tax dollars down the drain.

The Shop

R-acer
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12/19/2008 6:58am
Just more corruption...... It’s all a big scam. And cleaning out the bank account before Obama takes office...so he cant do the things he wanted to do.
spacerider
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12/19/2008 7:00am
there goes Paulsen year end bonus
jmar
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12/19/2008 7:08am
R-acer wrote:
Just more corruption...... It’s all a big scam. And cleaning out the bank account before Obama takes office...so he cant do the things he wanted to...
Just more corruption...... It’s all a big scam. And cleaning out the bank account before Obama takes office...so he cant do the things he wanted to do.
And cleaning out the bank account before Obama takes office...so he cant do the things he wanted to do.

Obama is in favor of the bailout so why would you say something like this. I am not an Obama hater by any means but it's getting old listening to some of the sucklers around here.

















brainbasket
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12/19/2008 7:12am
There was only 2 choices -

Issue enough in loans to keep them operating or:

Let the extended plant shutdowns transition into Ch 11 early into next year.

Watching them close down plants as Obama is sworn would have been like setting a time bomb to go off during his honeymoon.
The UAW suspended the Job Bank deal and the company is extending the xmas shutdown, so it's not like absolutely nothing has been done. It prolly just prolongs the inevitable, but at least this way Obama has a chance to manage the issue. I would think a BO supporter would be relieved....
brainbasket
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12/19/2008 7:13am
R-acer wrote:
Just more corruption...... It’s all a big scam. And cleaning out the bank account before Obama takes office...so he cant do the things he wanted to...
Just more corruption...... It’s all a big scam. And cleaning out the bank account before Obama takes office...so he cant do the things he wanted to do.
You realize there's still about half of the 700billion available, right?
WhKnuckle
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12/19/2008 7:17am
What's going to happen is essentially a bankruptcy without an actual filing, to avoid the market issues associated with trying to sell cars as a bankrupt company. There's going to wind up being a car czar who will be responsible for reorganizing, and if he gets too much resistance he'll just take the government's money and walk away and let them sink or swim. It'll work out.
jmar
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12/19/2008 7:27am
WhKnuckle wrote:
What's going to happen is essentially a bankruptcy without an actual filing, to avoid the market issues associated with trying to sell cars as a bankrupt...
What's going to happen is essentially a bankruptcy without an actual filing, to avoid the market issues associated with trying to sell cars as a bankrupt company. There's going to wind up being a car czar who will be responsible for reorganizing, and if he gets too much resistance he'll just take the government's money and walk away and let them sink or swim. It'll work out.
I can agree with this scenario other than (if he gets too much resistance) If he gets any resistance at all they should let them sink.
flarider
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12/19/2008 8:00am
jmar wrote:
[b]And cleaning out the bank account before Obama takes office...so he cant do the things he wanted to do.[/b] Obama is in favor of the bailout...
And cleaning out the bank account before Obama takes office...so he cant do the things he wanted to do.

Obama is in favor of the bailout so why would you say something like this. I am not an Obama hater by any means but it's getting old listening to some of the sucklers around here.

















That's fine if Obama agreed with it, but the side he chose to stand with in Congress, lost.
jmar
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12/19/2008 8:06am
jmar wrote:
[b]And cleaning out the bank account before Obama takes office...so he cant do the things he wanted to do.[/b] Obama is in favor of the bailout...
And cleaning out the bank account before Obama takes office...so he cant do the things he wanted to do.

Obama is in favor of the bailout so why would you say something like this. I am not an Obama hater by any means but it's getting old listening to some of the sucklers around here.

















flarider wrote:
That's fine if Obama agreed with it, but the side he chose to stand with in Congress, lost.
I agree but the point I was trying to make is that what R-acer said made no sense at all.
SEEMEFIRST
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12/19/2008 8:39am
There are strings attached. It's a loan that gives them time to figure out how to streamline, and get things on the right track. It also gives the new admin. a chance to get in office without this albatross hanging around thier necks.

They get it right and pay the money back, or they file for bankruptcy in March

You Bush haters just can't see that this is doing the Obama a favor.

Bash on brothas...
BMSOB
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12/19/2008 8:46am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:34pm
jmar wrote:
[b]And cleaning out the bank account before Obama takes office...so he cant do the things he wanted to do.[/b] Obama is in favor of the bailout...
And cleaning out the bank account before Obama takes office...so he cant do the things he wanted to do.

Obama is in favor of the bailout so why would you say something like this. I am not an Obama hater by any means but it's getting old listening to some of the sucklers around here.

















flarider wrote:
That's fine if Obama agreed with it, but the side he chose to stand with in Congress, lost.
jmar wrote:
I agree but the point I was trying to make is that what R-acer said made no sense at all.
I don't think they are trying to "clean out the bank before Obama takes office", but they, the Republicans, are still playing partisan politics & sticking to the Reagan era mantra of trying to break the unions which is completely wrongheaded under the current circumstances. That may have been fine with them while they were under the impression that the free market, trickle down style of economic theory was a viable way of operating the economy. As we have now seen that theory has been discredited and amounted to nothing more than one big ponzi scheme with nothing of substance underpinning the stock market & only benefiting a privileged few.

To allow the big 3 to go under would mean that one of the only industry's left in this country that actually produces something of value will go the way of the rest of our manufacturing jobs that have been outsourced at a huge cost to this country & it's already shaky economy.

The Republicans are playing chicken with our jobs & economy for the sake of old outdated ideology that they still can't get past. You would have thought, after the results of the last election that they might have gotten a clue but it appears that they intend to continue to cling to the obstructionism & partisan politics that they have practiced for the last 30 years to the detriment of all.

Kudos to Bush for seeing the logic in trying to save our industry & bucking his own party's flawed logic. I never thought I would say that.

We gave the banking industry pirates a blank check & they produce nothing but bad paper & huge bonuses for their CEO's. To deny the auto industry a relatively paltry sum compared to the $700 billion no questions gift given the bankers is the height stupidity & exactly what we don't need.
Oldmotoguy
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12/19/2008 9:51am
I say quit paying federal taxes in a huge wave of disatisfaction ..and the government might listen..but right now they don't care what the american public thinks
WhKnuckle
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12/19/2008 9:52am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:35pm
"Kudos to Bush for seeing the logic in trying to save our industry & bucking his own party's flawed logic. I never thought I would say that. "

I saw an interview where Bush said he was "sacrificing free market principals to save the free market system." That actually makes sense. I guess Senators feel like they can stick to principals because they won't get blamed for what ultimately happens - and its helpful when the effect of sticking to those free market principals is to bankrupt the largest competitor to a business that does a lot of business in your state. That's the whole deal with the "Senator from Nissan" Bob Corker and the "Senator from Toyota" Richard Shelby.
brainbasket
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12/19/2008 10:34am
BMSOB wrote:
I don't think they are trying to "clean out the bank before Obama takes office", but they, the Republicans, are still playing partisan politics & sticking...
I don't think they are trying to "clean out the bank before Obama takes office", but they, the Republicans, are still playing partisan politics & sticking to the Reagan era mantra of trying to break the unions which is completely wrongheaded under the current circumstances. That may have been fine with them while they were under the impression that the free market, trickle down style of economic theory was a viable way of operating the economy. As we have now seen that theory has been discredited and amounted to nothing more than one big ponzi scheme with nothing of substance underpinning the stock market & only benefiting a privileged few.

To allow the big 3 to go under would mean that one of the only industry's left in this country that actually produces something of value will go the way of the rest of our manufacturing jobs that have been outsourced at a huge cost to this country & it's already shaky economy.

The Republicans are playing chicken with our jobs & economy for the sake of old outdated ideology that they still can't get past. You would have thought, after the results of the last election that they might have gotten a clue but it appears that they intend to continue to cling to the obstructionism & partisan politics that they have practiced for the last 30 years to the detriment of all.

Kudos to Bush for seeing the logic in trying to save our industry & bucking his own party's flawed logic. I never thought I would say that.

We gave the banking industry pirates a blank check & they produce nothing but bad paper & huge bonuses for their CEO's. To deny the auto industry a relatively paltry sum compared to the $700 billion no questions gift given the bankers is the height stupidity & exactly what we don't need.
The current problems in the global economy aren't a result of a failure of free market principles, and pointing to the last 30 years as evidence of it ignores the gains that were made. Or was it really Great Society programs that reduced welfare rolls and poverty over the last 30 years?
It's just as inaccurate to say the economy of 1960 - 1980 was evidence of the failure of alternatives to free market principles.

Maybe Obama can save the labor unions while at the same time maintaining America's competitive edge against countries paying pennies per hour to perform the same tasks.
Maybe he can find a way to redistribute wealth from the wealthy to the less fortunate without chasing away capital and crippling productivity.
But unless or until he does, it's premature to celebrate the demise of free market principles or celebrate the success of socialism IMO.

Being pragmatic may be the answer in the final analysis. I'm hoping so anyway .....
SEEMEFIRST
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12/19/2008 10:46am
flarider wrote:
How does the President just give $17B to the automakers without congressional approval? Bush is just telling Paulsen what to do with the bailout money? So...
How does the President just give $17B to the automakers without congressional approval?
Bush is just telling Paulsen what to do with the bailout money?
So in essence, the $700B didn't go to the treasury secretary to bail out the economy, it went to Bush to do as he pleases through Paulsen as a puppet.

Congress said no to the automakers, so the President said "fuck you" and did an end around
When the house can't get thier ducks lined up, the Exceutive branch has the responsiblity to make decisions that the house won't make.

That's the way it's written, no "end-around". It's called leadership.

Is it the right decision? Only time will tell. Like my Dad, Cap't. Gary always told me.."MAKE A DECISION, LEUTENANT!!! RIGHT OR WRONG, MAKE A DECISION!!!"
12/19/2008 10:51am
knock out the retired benifits and we wouldn't be listening to this bailout talk right now.
SEEMEFIRST
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12/19/2008 11:24am
Gallup had the Congress approval rating at 19% in Nov. I don't think our "elected representatives" are on the same page as "the people".

Congress said "No" to a hand out, the Executive Branch allowed them a loan. Congress pussed out, they knew something needed to be done to save the industry. They just let Bush do the dirty work.
Void Main
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12/19/2008 11:36am
Most of the people I know didn't want any bailout at all to happen. We (the people) didn't get to vote on it, our reps just did as they pleased. I don't like any of it. Not to mention the governor of my state being as corrupt as they come. He doesn't even reside in the state capitol. Springfield is supposed to be our capitol but that's just for show. The real capitol is Chicago. I'm not happy with any of our governmental leaders. As jtom would say, we have shit on both sides and we keep electing them. I guess when you only have shit to choose from your going to end up in deep shit.
flarider
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12/19/2008 11:39am
So, if Congress has a low poll rating with Gallup, the POTUS can do whatever the fuck he wants, with or without Congressional support

Got it!
Sinbad
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12/19/2008 11:43am Edited Date/Time 12/19/2008 11:45am
and you dumb fucks told me the president could not do away with guns without congressional approval. When I showed he could still do it you guys called bull shit, and now your eating your own words. I love it.
WhipMeister
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12/19/2008 11:45am
And Ford said, "Thanks. We don't need it.".

Dave, is there ANYTHING you don't like to bitch and moan about ?
12/19/2008 11:45am
The slowest new day of the year (traditionally) and this is what we get.

Corker wasn't siding with Nissan, Corker was siding with logic. The UAW idiots are most of the problem!!!! If they can't give to keep their job, Fuck EM!! Each and everyone of them!!! With the way unemployment is, I am sure their would be lots of people that would take those jobs. Until the auto workers stand up to the unions more of the same will continue!!!
flarider
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12/19/2008 11:45am
I guess he can, as long as Congress has low Gallup poll numbers
Sinbad
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12/19/2008 11:45am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:35pm
and Dave

President-elect Barack Obama, who takes office a week from Saturday, praised the White House action and said that "the auto companies must not squander this chance." He said they must begin "the long-term restructuring that is absolutely necessary ... while also creating the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/meltdown_autos

brainbasket
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12/19/2008 11:46am
Sinbad wrote:
and you dumb fucks told me the president could not do away with guns without congressional approval. When I showed he could still do it you...
and you dumb fucks told me the president could not do away with guns without congressional approval. When I showed he could still do it you guys called bull shit, and now your eating your own words. I love it.
Some also said Bush was responsible for every negative thing that happened since the day he took office.
Now we're learning it was really only the Congress that had the right to do anything substantive ....
flarider
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12/19/2008 11:48am
flarider wrote:
How does the President just give $17B to the automakers without congressional approval? Bush is just telling Paulsen what to do with the bailout money? So...
How does the President just give $17B to the automakers without congressional approval?
Bush is just telling Paulsen what to do with the bailout money?
So in essence, the $700B didn't go to the treasury secretary to bail out the economy, it went to Bush to do as he pleases through Paulsen as a puppet.

Congress said no to the automakers, so the President said "fuck you" and did an end around
I don't care what Obama says, I don't like the end around run despite Congress' no vote

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