Socialism

Robert
Posts
1159
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 5:00pm
Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society[1][2] Modern socialism originated in the late nineteenth-century working class political movement. Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution which represents the transitional stage between capitalism and communism.[3][4]

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.[1]

Socialism is not a discrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and program; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic rationalization, sometimes opposing each other. Another dividing feature of the socialist movement is the split on how a socialist economy should be established between the reformists and the revolutionaries. Some socialists advocate complete nationalization of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; while others advocate state control of capital within the framework of a market economy. Social democrats propose selective nationalization of key national industries in mixed economies combined with tax-funded welfare programs; Libertarian socialism (which includes Socialist Anarchism and Libertarian Marxism) rejects state control and ownership of the economy altogether and advocates direct collective ownership of the means of production via co-operative workers' councils and workplace democracy.

In the 1970s and the 1980s, Yugoslavian, Hungarian, Polish and Chinese Communists instituted various forms of market socialism combining co-operative and State ownership models with the free market exchange.[5] This is unlike the earlier theoretical market socialist proposal put forth by Oskar Lange in that it allows market forces, rather than central planners to guide production and exchange.[6] Anarcho-syndicalists, Luxemburgists (such as those in the Socialist Party USA) and some elements of the United States New Left favor decentralized collective ownership in the form of cooperatives or workers'
|
10/26/2008 6:54pm
AGAIN: We have public roads, public schools, public parks, public utilities, and every income tax ever used by the federal government has been progressive (taxing the rich more than the poor). We pay tax money to subsidize farming, industry, and people directly. This is a socialist country. Get it through your head and then we can move on.
10/26/2008 6:57pm
Taxing us then using it for infestructure is the country doing business, taxing us to give people money who dont pay taxes is socialism. If you dont see the difference I cant help you.

And dont point out my spelling errors your hurting my selfesteem.
Void Main
Posts
17013
Joined
3/19/2008
Location
USA
10/26/2008 6:59pm
And dont point out my spelling errors your hurting my selfesteem.

Heh heh. Smile
Racetime
Posts
867
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
10/26/2008 6:59pm
Jesus was a socialist..

Military families live in a socialist structure.

The Shop

10/26/2008 7:02pm
Jesus wanst a socialist, he said to take care of the poor, the poor who cant take care of themselfs. He also said to work for what you get.
10/26/2008 7:02pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Taxing us then using it for infestructure is the country doing business, taxing us to give people money who dont pay taxes is socialism. If you...
Taxing us then using it for infestructure is the country doing business, taxing us to give people money who dont pay taxes is socialism. If you dont see the difference I cant help you.

And dont point out my spelling errors your hurting my selfesteem.
There isn't a difference. Did you not read the VERY FIRST SENTENCE of the opening post?

"Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods..."

In other words, roads, schools, parks, utilities, etc. This is a socialist country. Get over it.
Robert
Posts
1159
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
10/26/2008 7:03pm
Capitalism is the economic system in which the means of production are distributed to openly competing profit-seeking[1] private persons and where investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are predominantly determined through the operation of a free market[2] where anyone can participate in supply and demand and form contracts with each other, rather than by central economic planning. Capitalism is usually considered to involve the right of individuals and businesses to trade, incorporate, and employ workers, in goods, services (including finance), labor and land.[2] In theory, production and distribution in a capitalist system are governed by the free market rather than state regulation,[3] with state action confined to defining and enforcing the basic rules of the market[4] though the state may provide a few basic public goods and infrastructure.[5] The most laissez-faire capitalist economies, as measured by indices of economic freedom, include countries such as Hong Kong and Canada.

Capitalist economic practices became institutionalized in England between the 16th and 19th centuries, although some features of capitalist organization existed in the ancient world, and early forms of merchant capitalism flourished during the Middle Ages.[6][7] Capitalism has been dominant in the Western world since the end of feudalism.[6] From Britain it gradually spread throughout Europe, across political and cultural frontiers. In the 19th and 20th centuries, capitalism provided the main, but not exclusive, means of industrialization throughout much of the world.[8]

Capitalism is a self-organizing, decentralized system. The concept of capitalism has limited analytic value, given the great variety of historical cases over which it is applied, varying in time, geography, politics and culture, and some feel that the term "mixed economies" more precisely describes most contemporary economies.[9][10] Some economists have specified a variety of different types of capitalism, depending on specifics of concentration of economic power and wealth, and methods of capital accumulation.[8] The "capitalist mixed economy" is the main capitalistic system, where the state intervenes in market activity and provides some services. Other systems include laissez-faire, where the state plays a minimal role and anarcho-capitalism where the market and private enterprise are completely free from the state which is nonexistent. During the last century capitalism has been contrasted with centrally planned economies, such as Marxian economies.
10/26/2008 7:03pm
taxing to run the government isnt socialisim.
10/26/2008 7:05pm
UpTiTe wrote:
taxing to run the government isnt socialisim.
The government? Well, it depends on how the taxes are collected, but regardless, roads, schools, parks and utilities are not necessarily "the government" are they? They are now, because this is a socialist country, but they don't have to be. They are not key to the operation of the government. They could all be private, if this was a true capitalist country.
10/26/2008 7:06pm
Robert wrote:
Capitalism is the economic system in which the means of production are distributed to openly competing profit-seeking[1] private persons and where investments, distribution, income, production and...
Capitalism is the economic system in which the means of production are distributed to openly competing profit-seeking[1] private persons and where investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are predominantly determined through the operation of a free market[2] where anyone can participate in supply and demand and form contracts with each other, rather than by central economic planning. Capitalism is usually considered to involve the right of individuals and businesses to trade, incorporate, and employ workers, in goods, services (including finance), labor and land.[2] In theory, production and distribution in a capitalist system are governed by the free market rather than state regulation,[3] with state action confined to defining and enforcing the basic rules of the market[4] though the state may provide a few basic public goods and infrastructure.[5] The most laissez-faire capitalist economies, as measured by indices of economic freedom, include countries such as Hong Kong and Canada.

Capitalist economic practices became institutionalized in England between the 16th and 19th centuries, although some features of capitalist organization existed in the ancient world, and early forms of merchant capitalism flourished during the Middle Ages.[6][7] Capitalism has been dominant in the Western world since the end of feudalism.[6] From Britain it gradually spread throughout Europe, across political and cultural frontiers. In the 19th and 20th centuries, capitalism provided the main, but not exclusive, means of industrialization throughout much of the world.[8]

Capitalism is a self-organizing, decentralized system. The concept of capitalism has limited analytic value, given the great variety of historical cases over which it is applied, varying in time, geography, politics and culture, and some feel that the term "mixed economies" more precisely describes most contemporary economies.[9][10] Some economists have specified a variety of different types of capitalism, depending on specifics of concentration of economic power and wealth, and methods of capital accumulation.[8] The "capitalist mixed economy" is the main capitalistic system, where the state intervenes in market activity and provides some services. Other systems include laissez-faire, where the state plays a minimal role and anarcho-capitalism where the market and private enterprise are completely free from the state which is nonexistent. During the last century capitalism has been contrasted with centrally planned economies, such as Marxian economies.
And as you can see, that's not us.
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
10/26/2008 7:06pm
Funny how everyone thinks this is all some new idea of Obama's
10/26/2008 7:07pm
flarider wrote:
Funny how everyone thinks this is all some new idea of Obama's
They've been living in a socialist country for their entire lives and didn't even know it.
10/26/2008 7:07pm
I have to say one thing aboutyou NSZ, you seem to be getting smarter the more you post. You went from not knowing nothing about corporate taxes to the man you are today.



Google is a great thing to learn with.
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
10/26/2008 7:17pm
"not knowing nothing"
Robert
Posts
1159
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
10/26/2008 7:17pm
flarider wrote:
Funny how everyone thinks this is all some new idea of Obama's
So what's your point?

If I commit murder it's cool for you too?
10/26/2008 7:20pm
flarider wrote:
"not knowing nothing"
Double negetive, damn it foiled again.
10/26/2008 7:20pm
flarider wrote:
"not knowing nothing"
It's easy to agree with double-negatives.
Void Main
Posts
17013
Joined
3/19/2008
Location
USA
10/26/2008 7:23pm
It's not easy to not agree with double-negatives. Triple-negatives on the other hand...
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
10/26/2008 7:23pm
flarider wrote:
Funny how everyone thinks this is all some new idea of Obama's
Robert wrote:
So what's your point?

If I commit murder it's cool for you too?
You weren't bitchin about a few months or weeks ago, or last year, or the year before that.

only now

How convenient
Robert
Posts
1159
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
10/26/2008 7:26pm
There was an election last year?
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
10/26/2008 7:30pm
So you only bitch about policy during election time, the rest of the time is OK
Robert
Posts
1159
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
10/26/2008 7:32pm
Is there a better time?
Racetime
Posts
867
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
10/26/2008 7:35pm
American big government is sloppy socialism, and its not working very well. Both parties just want more and more to spend it their way. We still try to socialize costs and privatize gains, so its not real socialism.
10/26/2008 7:37pm
You guys get hung up on welfare thinking the majority of your taxes go to social programs when it reality its a tiny piece of the pie. More tax money is probably spent on office supplies then welfare. They could cut welfare tomorrow and they would just take the money and spend it somewhere else. Its never going backwards Republican or Democrat they both love to tax you because they both love to spend.
bd
Posts
6046
Joined
4/6/2007
Location
Las Vegas, NV, USA
10/26/2008 7:41pm
Racetime wrote:
Jesus was a socialist..

Military families live in a socialist structure.
True about Jesus....


TFS... we both better duck


Robert
Posts
1159
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
10/26/2008 7:43pm
Racetime wrote:
American big government is sloppy socialism, and its not working very well. Both parties just want more and more to spend it their way. We still...
American big government is sloppy socialism, and its not working very well. Both parties just want more and more to spend it their way. We still try to socialize costs and privatize gains, so its not real socialism.
Maybe it'll be more real when it come's outta your bank account.
Oldmotoguy
Posts
1772
Joined
8/29/2008
Location
Oceanside, CA, USA
10/26/2008 8:06pm
its an OLIGARCY..run by the rich,for the rich...the bail out is proof..fellers,its time to march to Washington,in a multi-million march..yank those fuckers out and tar and feather them
Robert
Posts
1159
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
10/26/2008 8:09pm
Oldmotoguy wrote:
its an OLIGARCY..run by the rich,for the rich...the bail out is proof..fellers,its time to march to Washington,in a multi-million march..yank those fuckers out and tar and...
its an OLIGARCY..run by the rich,for the rich...the bail out is proof..fellers,its time to march to Washington,in a multi-million march..yank those fuckers out and tar and feather them
I'm down with that.
10/26/2008 10:53pm
Oldmotoguy wrote:
its an OLIGARCY..run by the rich,for the rich...the bail out is proof..fellers,its time to march to Washington,in a multi-million march..yank those fuckers out and tar and...
its an OLIGARCY..run by the rich,for the rich...the bail out is proof..fellers,its time to march to Washington,in a multi-million march..yank those fuckers out and tar and feather them
You're just catching on. The best part is that you think the Republicans are better in this regard than Democrats.
Racetime
Posts
867
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
10/27/2008 2:36am
One track mind?

Even K Marx, the guy that is given credit for socialism, had no use for the "won't work" people!

The situation was different, but Marx distinguished from workers that work and workers that were no use to his theory that eventually workers would wake up and seize ownership of the means of production. That's what Marx was all about.

It's not a worker's revolution if you stay home from work, is it?

So all you people equating a welfare state with socialism need to go back to school and learn something this time.

Socialism is social ownership of the means of production. Capitalism is private ownership. Simple as that. Neither is a "welfare state" concept, and neither exists in pure form.

If you hate welfare bums, you may be a Marxist.

Post a reply to: Socialism

The Latest