So what's gonna happen....

Titan1
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Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 9:20am
In America, when we can no longer even cover the interest on the national debt (it's already our third largest expense...and if we keep adding to it, it makes sense that it will eventually become our largest...then we'll have to borrower money just to cover the interest on our debt). And when other countries refuse to lend us any money?

Anyway, what happens then????

The governent going to have to eliminate social programs, and other non-essential budget items?
Lay off half (or more) of it's employees?
Try and strong arm our creditors (tell them, if you think you're stronger than us, come and take it)?
Go and steal money to survive from other countries?
Stop funding the military?


What is going to happen when that day comes?

I honestly have no idea....but what is happening in Greece is kind of scary....look what it's doing to the world ecoomy and they are a TINY country!!!! What would happen when MIGHTY America can't meet it's debt obligations???

Seriosly...anyone have any ideas?
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Rooster
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5/7/2010 1:29pm
Watch what happens to Greece to see what could be your future.

Ask a kiwi what it was like when the IMF or world bank cut off their lending to them over an unmanageable debt load.
Titan1
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5/7/2010 2:12pm
Oh, one follow up question...what are our elected politians doing to prevent these things from happening?







(Seems to me like we keep seeing more social programs, more spending....more spending, more taxes, more spending, more social programs....but maybe I'm wrong)

The Shop

Titan1
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5/7/2010 3:04pm
I've been hoping that all the sudden congress would surprise us all and come out with some type of full proof plan to get the country solvent again....

Doesn't look like it's ever going to happen....

In the mean time, I'm going to prepare for higher taxes, prepare for riots (one social programs are eliminated those that rely on them are going to be pissed and will try and steal everyone elses stuff) and do my best to set myself-and my family-up so I will never have to use the government as a back stop (unemployment, food stamps, welfare check, Social Security, etc)....because once it happens (and unless something drastically changes, it's eventually GOING TO HAPPEN), the government is going to be forced to raise taxes and eliminate social programs (among other things).

It sucks that the name of "protecting" a few from failing today, the government is putting the country in a position where ALL will have to suffer tomorrow. What's that called???? "Putting the cart before the horse"...."Cant see the forest for the trees"..."cut off your nose to spite your face"...."just plain dumb"...what?


(And I'm perplexed by the lack of Obama sympathizers in this thread?)
5/7/2010 3:12pm
Any idea who set the record for most money borrowed from other countries during their presidency?
Titan1
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5/7/2010 3:21pm
Any idea who set the record for most money borrowed from other countries during their presidency?
Who cares?

It's irrelvant at this point....time to make it stop....
jmar
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5/7/2010 5:22pm
Titan1 wrote:
Oh, one follow up question...what are our elected politians doing to prevent these things from happening? (Seems to me like we keep seeing more social programs...
Oh, one follow up question...what are our elected politians doing to prevent these things from happening?







(Seems to me like we keep seeing more social programs, more spending....more spending, more taxes, more spending, more social programs....but maybe I'm wrong)
Not a dam thing other than cashing the checks of those that they should be imposing new rules and regulations on.
jmar
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5/7/2010 5:28pm
Rooster wrote:
Watch what happens to Greece to see what could be your future. Ask a kiwi what it was like when the IMF or world bank cut...
Watch what happens to Greece to see what could be your future.

Ask a kiwi what it was like when the IMF or world bank cut off their lending to them over an unmanageable debt load.
And that's why I fear my own government more than I do al-qaeda.

BTW: Greece's economical problems were helped along by some very big hedge funds. Devaluing the Euro is easier than bringing up the dollar.
jmar
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5/7/2010 7:31pm
Titan1 wrote:
Oh, one follow up question...what are our elected politians doing to prevent these things from happening? (Seems to me like we keep seeing more social programs...
Oh, one follow up question...what are our elected politians doing to prevent these things from happening?







(Seems to me like we keep seeing more social programs, more spending....more spending, more taxes, more spending, more social programs....but maybe I'm wrong)
jmar wrote:
Not a dam thing other than cashing the checks of those that they should be imposing new rules and regulations on.
It's really sad that these people can do this right in front of our faces and no one seems to care.

It's really no surprise that we are in the shape we in the shape we are in today.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487039611045752264318965423…
jmar
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5/7/2010 7:46pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:40pm
http://online.wsj.com/...228232487804548.html


Also, any settlement has to be structured in a way that allows the SEC to show that it punished Goldman. Goldman likely wants a deal in which it neither admits or denies wrongdoing. That legal wiggle room could help shield the company from shareholder and customer lawsuits.



WhKnuckle
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5/7/2010 7:51pm
One idea - Allow people to buy Treasury bonds with pretax money and, if they'll hold them for 5 years or until retirement, then both the principal and interest remains tax free. That would give people another option with 401K money (you'd have to set it up so they weren't using employer contribution money) that would be secure and would return some interest, although not a lot. The big payoff would be that you'd NEVER pay tax on that money, even after you retire.

The point of the program would be to drastically lower the interest rate that the government has to pay on debt - since people would already be making roughly 25% by tax avoidance, the bonds themselves could be low interest paying instruments.

And the other good thing is we'd get a lot of our debt brought back home instead of foreign governments holding it.

If you don't like that, maybe we could invest some of our Social Security money in that kind of deal. If you get right down to it, the federal government already owes Social Security so much they'll never pay it back, it'd be one way to level that out some.
jmar
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5/7/2010 8:14pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:40pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
One idea - Allow people to buy Treasury bonds with pretax money and, if they'll hold them for 5 years or until retirement, then both the...
One idea - Allow people to buy Treasury bonds with pretax money and, if they'll hold them for 5 years or until retirement, then both the principal and interest remains tax free. That would give people another option with 401K money (you'd have to set it up so they weren't using employer contribution money) that would be secure and would return some interest, although not a lot. The big payoff would be that you'd NEVER pay tax on that money, even after you retire.

The point of the program would be to drastically lower the interest rate that the government has to pay on debt - since people would already be making roughly 25% by tax avoidance, the bonds themselves could be low interest paying instruments.

And the other good thing is we'd get a lot of our debt brought back home instead of foreign governments holding it.

If you don't like that, maybe we could invest some of our Social Security money in that kind of deal. If you get right down to it, the federal government already owes Social Security so much they'll never pay it back, it'd be one way to level that out some.
Knuck


You're a smart man. Why do you and others not care about what's going on between our elected officials and wall street firms like goldman?


Honestly, I want to know why your blood isn't boiling over things like this?
Titan1
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5/8/2010 9:46am
I thought Obama was elected to make it stop (change)????

But no, he just kept right on with the exact same garbage he was supposed to "change"...

Republican = Democrat = Trash
Titan1
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5/8/2010 9:48am
WhKnuckle wrote:
One idea - Allow people to buy Treasury bonds with pretax money and, if they'll hold them for 5 years or until retirement, then both the...
One idea - Allow people to buy Treasury bonds with pretax money and, if they'll hold them for 5 years or until retirement, then both the principal and interest remains tax free. That would give people another option with 401K money (you'd have to set it up so they weren't using employer contribution money) that would be secure and would return some interest, although not a lot. The big payoff would be that you'd NEVER pay tax on that money, even after you retire.

The point of the program would be to drastically lower the interest rate that the government has to pay on debt - since people would already be making roughly 25% by tax avoidance, the bonds themselves could be low interest paying instruments.

And the other good thing is we'd get a lot of our debt brought back home instead of foreign governments holding it.

If you don't like that, maybe we could invest some of our Social Security money in that kind of deal. If you get right down to it, the federal government already owes Social Security so much they'll never pay it back, it'd be one way to level that out some.
I could get on board with something like that.

I wonder why there is a huge case of "logicitis" in DC?
WhKnuckle
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5/8/2010 10:03am
jmar wrote:
Knuck You're a smart man. Why do you and others not care about what's going on between our elected officials and wall street firms like goldman...
Knuck


You're a smart man. Why do you and others not care about what's going on between our elected officials and wall street firms like goldman?


Honestly, I want to know why your blood isn't boiling over things like this?
Because, as I see it, the situation is very complicated. America became a great country because we knew how to make things and we had the ability to take our own raw materials and make them into finished products like cars, machinery, TVs, buckets, mops, clothes and everything under the sun. But the portion of our GDP that is attributed to manufacturing has declined by 50% over the last 30 years - and it's been replaced by financial services. In the 70s, people said that whatever happened to GM happened to America - today, whatever happens to our financial services industry happens to America. If you basically just shut it down, you'll destroy our economy because we're so dependent on it. In my opinion, the only course of action is to ensure that these financial transactions are transparent and fair, and that all the large firms collectively will bear the cost of unwinding a single firm that fails and threatens to undermine the entire system. The second layer of action should be that these financial firms should be required to invest money in actual businesses that make real things. I'm not sure how you do that, but that has to be a goal - we MUST become a product-making country again.

One other thing - I'm not sure how much politicians are influenced by graft and corruption from Wall Street and how much they're influenced by the knowledge that their business is so critical to our overall economic health. I have no love for Wall Street, but that doesn't mean I want to shut the whole thing down. That's cutting off your nose to spite your face. On the other hand, I don't think it's a good thing for so many Americans to have so much of their personal financial future (ie 401K) in stocks and mutual funds - that's why I'd like to see average Americas given a good incentive to invest in Treasury bonds (not to mention the positive effect that it would have on our deficit).

But I'm no economist. I could be wrong about the whole thing. But if I had a vision for America, it would be that it would return to the days when we used our own raw materials and made the finest finished products in the world again. We'll never get there if we wreck our economy through an angry, mutually destructive fit of rage against Wall Street.
tcannon521
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Fantasy
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5/8/2010 10:53am
So you're saying spend until we can't?

Why are you a BO supporter if you don't want change?
Titan1
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5/8/2010 3:12pm
When he ran on everything that Bush wasn't....Bush was spending like a mad man, Obama was supposed do everything Bush wasn't, and not do anything bush was doing.
Titan1
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5/8/2010 3:14pm
Well, then....why ISN'T it a problem for you now? If you were raising hell about it i 2004, why are you all the sudden okay with it? Why stop?

Obama is spending money on all things you hated when bush was spending money on them (war in Iraq, bailouts), plus some....you complained non-stop about Bush (and still do), but say nothing about Obama....what's your deal?
jmar
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5/8/2010 3:49pm
jmar wrote:
Knuck You're a smart man. Why do you and others not care about what's going on between our elected officials and wall street firms like goldman...
Knuck


You're a smart man. Why do you and others not care about what's going on between our elected officials and wall street firms like goldman?


Honestly, I want to know why your blood isn't boiling over things like this?
WhKnuckle wrote:
Because, as I see it, the situation is very complicated. America became a great country because we knew how to make things and we had the...
Because, as I see it, the situation is very complicated. America became a great country because we knew how to make things and we had the ability to take our own raw materials and make them into finished products like cars, machinery, TVs, buckets, mops, clothes and everything under the sun. But the portion of our GDP that is attributed to manufacturing has declined by 50% over the last 30 years - and it's been replaced by financial services. In the 70s, people said that whatever happened to GM happened to America - today, whatever happens to our financial services industry happens to America. If you basically just shut it down, you'll destroy our economy because we're so dependent on it. In my opinion, the only course of action is to ensure that these financial transactions are transparent and fair, and that all the large firms collectively will bear the cost of unwinding a single firm that fails and threatens to undermine the entire system. The second layer of action should be that these financial firms should be required to invest money in actual businesses that make real things. I'm not sure how you do that, but that has to be a goal - we MUST become a product-making country again.

One other thing - I'm not sure how much politicians are influenced by graft and corruption from Wall Street and how much they're influenced by the knowledge that their business is so critical to our overall economic health. I have no love for Wall Street, but that doesn't mean I want to shut the whole thing down. That's cutting off your nose to spite your face. On the other hand, I don't think it's a good thing for so many Americans to have so much of their personal financial future (ie 401K) in stocks and mutual funds - that's why I'd like to see average Americas given a good incentive to invest in Treasury bonds (not to mention the positive effect that it would have on our deficit).

But I'm no economist. I could be wrong about the whole thing. But if I had a vision for America, it would be that it would return to the days when we used our own raw materials and made the finest finished products in the world again. We'll never get there if we wreck our economy through an angry, mutually destructive fit of rage against Wall Street.
I understand and agree completely. With that said, we need to "deflate" wall street slowly and start ensuring that any investment buy our government, or any new rules and regulations imposed, should be geared toward favoring manufacturing and small business. Not the existing blood sucking finical industry that has this country with it's back up against the wall.

That's not what is going down today, and you, I and everyone else should be furious that the existing powerful financial industry is still calling the shots. We should all be furious and vote any and all of those elected officials out of office.

Sometimes you have to do the right thing and let the chips fall where ever they fall.
borg
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5/8/2010 7:34pm
Sorry, didn't read all the posts. Here's how I see it:
Greece is prologue to what will begin to happen to our states. Greece is part of the EU so they cant print money like the Feds can. Reality hits. Same thing will happen to Cali and a few others. The Fed is tapped out. They cant do anymore. The only other thing is left is debt. Look at interest rates in Greece. No government can sustain that. Again, reality hits.
Interesting times are here.
fcr
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5/9/2010 1:01am
Titan1 wrote:
I've been hoping that all the sudden congress would surprise us all and come out with some type of full proof plan to get the country...
I've been hoping that all the sudden congress would surprise us all and come out with some type of full proof plan to get the country solvent again....

Doesn't look like it's ever going to happen....

In the mean time, I'm going to prepare for higher taxes, prepare for riots (one social programs are eliminated those that rely on them are going to be pissed and will try and steal everyone elses stuff) and do my best to set myself-and my family-up so I will never have to use the government as a back stop (unemployment, food stamps, welfare check, Social Security, etc)....because once it happens (and unless something drastically changes, it's eventually GOING TO HAPPEN), the government is going to be forced to raise taxes and eliminate social programs (among other things).

It sucks that the name of "protecting" a few from failing today, the government is putting the country in a position where ALL will have to suffer tomorrow. What's that called???? "Putting the cart before the horse"...."Cant see the forest for the trees"..."cut off your nose to spite your face"...."just plain dumb"...what?


(And I'm perplexed by the lack of Obama sympathizers in this thread?)
You forgot shiting in ones own mess kit.

I am totally pissed about the relationship between our "Elected" politicians and Wall Street. Sleezy as it gets.
jmar
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5/9/2010 6:02am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:42pm
Hopefully everyone will get pissed enough to vote "every" single one of shills from both sides out of office and replace them with someone new.


Preferably people that don't have an alliance to either party.
Titan1
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5/10/2010 10:26am
Titan1 wrote:
I've been hoping that all the sudden congress would surprise us all and come out with some type of full proof plan to get the country...
I've been hoping that all the sudden congress would surprise us all and come out with some type of full proof plan to get the country solvent again....

Doesn't look like it's ever going to happen....

In the mean time, I'm going to prepare for higher taxes, prepare for riots (one social programs are eliminated those that rely on them are going to be pissed and will try and steal everyone elses stuff) and do my best to set myself-and my family-up so I will never have to use the government as a back stop (unemployment, food stamps, welfare check, Social Security, etc)....because once it happens (and unless something drastically changes, it's eventually GOING TO HAPPEN), the government is going to be forced to raise taxes and eliminate social programs (among other things).

It sucks that the name of "protecting" a few from failing today, the government is putting the country in a position where ALL will have to suffer tomorrow. What's that called???? "Putting the cart before the horse"...."Cant see the forest for the trees"..."cut off your nose to spite your face"...."just plain dumb"...what?


(And I'm perplexed by the lack of Obama sympathizers in this thread?)
fcr wrote:
You forgot shiting in ones own mess kit.

I am totally pissed about the relationship between our "Elected" politicians and Wall Street. Sleezy as it gets.
Ah, yes! "Shiting in ones own mess kit"...that is exactly what I was looking for.

Titan1
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5/10/2010 10:26am
Titan1 wrote:
Well, then....why ISN'T it a problem for you now? If you were raising hell about it i 2004, why are you all the sudden okay with...
Well, then....why ISN'T it a problem for you now? If you were raising hell about it i 2004, why are you all the sudden okay with it? Why stop?

Obama is spending money on all things you hated when bush was spending money on them (war in Iraq, bailouts), plus some....you complained non-stop about Bush (and still do), but say nothing about Obama....what's your deal?
Ahem! Nachodaddy....what's your deal?
wilcom121
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5/10/2010 4:34pm
KAWboy14 wrote:
raise taxes on the rich?
You crazy? It's the government they can just print more money.
Void Main
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5/10/2010 4:41pm
Titan1 wrote:
Well, then....why ISN'T it a problem for you now? If you were raising hell about it i 2004, why are you all the sudden okay with...
Well, then....why ISN'T it a problem for you now? If you were raising hell about it i 2004, why are you all the sudden okay with it? Why stop?

Obama is spending money on all things you hated when bush was spending money on them (war in Iraq, bailouts), plus some....you complained non-stop about Bush (and still do), but say nothing about Obama....what's your deal?
KAWboy14
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5/10/2010 6:55pm
KAWboy14 wrote:
raise taxes on the rich?
wilcom121 wrote:
You crazy? It's the government they can just print more money.
that does seem easier.........ok, print more cash!
Titan1
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5/11/2010 9:18am
I'm still chuckling at the lack of obama sucklers in the thread...so funny.

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