Cheap Natural Gas Causing Earthquakes

Hut
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Edited Date/Time 1/17/2012 4:44am
They have been fracking the heck out of Pennsylvania wonder if there is a connection with the quakes in Northern Virginia Huh

U.S. Government Confirms Link Between Earthquakes and Hydraulic Fracturing
"On 5 November an earthquake measuring 5.6 rattled Oklahoma and was felt as far away as Illinois.

Until two years ago Oklahoma typically had about 50 earthquakes a year, but in 2010, 1,047 quakes shook the state.

Why?

In Lincoln County, where most of this past weekend's seismic incidents were centered, there are 181 injection wells, according to Matt Skinner, an official from the Oklahoma Corporation Commission, the agency which oversees oil and gas production in the state."
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Moto East Mag
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11/11/2011 10:03am
when the environmental groups really take it to the fracking industry, there will be big repercussions. The industy is betting the farm on cheap natural gas (and thus electricity) from gas resources accessed by fracking.
JustMX
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11/11/2011 3:36pm
FRACK YOU!!
jmar
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11/11/2011 4:46pm
Hut wrote:
They have been fracking the heck out of Pennsylvania wonder if there is a connection with the quakes in Northern Virginia :huh: [url=http://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/U.S.-Government-Confirms-Link-Between-Earthquakes-and-Hydraulic-Fracturing.html]U.S. Government Confirms Link...
They have been fracking the heck out of Pennsylvania wonder if there is a connection with the quakes in Northern Virginia Huh

U.S. Government Confirms Link Between Earthquakes and Hydraulic Fracturing
"On 5 November an earthquake measuring 5.6 rattled Oklahoma and was felt as far away as Illinois.

Until two years ago Oklahoma typically had about 50 earthquakes a year, but in 2010, 1,047 quakes shook the state.

Why?

In Lincoln County, where most of this past weekend's seismic incidents were centered, there are 181 injection wells, according to Matt Skinner, an official from the Oklahoma Corporation Commission, the agency which oversees oil and gas production in the state."
I wouldn't be a bit surprised. If this is true, natural gas prices will go up, and stock prices for companies like Chesapeake, that couldn't cover their overhead, if not for Enron type book keeping and wall street, will be in trouble.
11/11/2011 5:23pm
If the EPA chopped fracking it would be a big hit for our already temperamental economic climate.


As far as the earthquakes, it sounds a little fishy to me. Correlation is not causation.

The Shop

The Rock
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11/11/2011 6:07pm
It's not like fracking is contaminating local water supplies and killing wildlife.....oh wait a minute it already is!

The environmentalists have already showed the downside of fracking but they're just like gnats that get swatted away. Much better to have jobs that result in pollution and harm to local residents than to support Obama's job bill anyway, eh?
brlatm
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11/11/2011 7:13pm
The Rock wrote:
It's not like fracking is contaminating local water supplies and killing wildlife.....oh wait a minute it already is! The environmentalists have already showed the downside of...
It's not like fracking is contaminating local water supplies and killing wildlife.....oh wait a minute it already is!

The environmentalists have already showed the downside of fracking but they're just like gnats that get swatted away. Much better to have jobs that result in pollution and harm to local residents than to support Obama's job bill anyway, eh?
If the frac job is contaminating the water table then a proper surface cement job to isolate the surface water table was not done properly. That is the primary reason for the what is known in the industry as the surface string to be cemented is to isolate it. And to say it kills wildlife I will also have to ask all the deer, antelope, elk and moose that I have seen walk across the wellsite about that.
Bill_Carroll
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11/11/2011 11:06pm
brlatm wrote:
If the frac job is contaminating the water table then a proper surface cement job to isolate the surface water table was not done properly. That...
If the frac job is contaminating the water table then a proper surface cement job to isolate the surface water table was not done properly. That is the primary reason for the what is known in the industry as the surface string to be cemented is to isolate it. And to say it kills wildlife I will also have to ask all the deer, antelope, elk and moose that I have seen walk across the wellsite about that.
Hahaaa, nice brtatm, Draining the under ground of support has gone on since oil was discovered, what makes the environmentalist so sure it's fracking for natural gas causing it? Oh, that's right money generated toward another dead-end.

The earth has been here for a dozen yrs, people been walking the earth for .0000001 of that time but when something goes down it's always the latest craze fault.

I know, I know... I need to go hug a tree
brlatm
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11/12/2011 9:38am
Hahaaa, nice brtatm, Draining the under ground of support has gone on since oil was discovered, what makes the environmentalist so sure it's fracking for natural...
Hahaaa, nice brtatm, Draining the under ground of support has gone on since oil was discovered, what makes the environmentalist so sure it's fracking for natural gas causing it? Oh, that's right money generated toward another dead-end.

The earth has been here for a dozen yrs, people been walking the earth for .0000001 of that time but when something goes down it's always the latest craze fault.

I know, I know... I need to go hug a tree
The very first frac jobs used were with nitro glycerin and I have heard Napalm. The stuff used in the industry now is very enviromentally friendly in its chemical makeup. And frac jobs are actually designed to replace what oil and gas you get out of the formation with some type of proppant (i.e. sand).

Besides only the devil knows what goes on downhole past a wellhead anyway.
Hut
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11/12/2011 11:33am Edited Date/Time 11/12/2011 12:05pm
brlatm wrote:
The very first frac jobs used were with nitro glycerin and I have heard Napalm. The stuff used in the industry now is very enviromentally friendly...
The very first frac jobs used were with nitro glycerin and I have heard Napalm. The stuff used in the industry now is very enviromentally friendly in its chemical makeup. And frac jobs are actually designed to replace what oil and gas you get out of the formation with some type of proppant (i.e. sand).

Besides only the devil knows what goes on downhole past a wellhead anyway.
I don't trust anything the energy companies say. An example; I understand "they" made a special deal with the federal government so they could be self regulated then went right ahead and started pumping contaminants in the ground anyway. Memory is foggy but I seem to remember it was basically diesel fuel being used as a fracking agent and that was a definite No-No. the way they have used eminent domain to take over peoples land for gas drilling is completely ridiculous.
brlatm
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11/12/2011 1:03pm
Hut wrote:
I don't trust anything the energy companies say. An example; I understand "they" made a special deal with the federal government so they could be self...
I don't trust anything the energy companies say. An example; I understand "they" made a special deal with the federal government so they could be self regulated then went right ahead and started pumping contaminants in the ground anyway. Memory is foggy but I seem to remember it was basically diesel fuel being used as a fracking agent and that was a definite No-No. the way they have used eminent domain to take over peoples land for gas drilling is completely ridiculous.
Agreed eminent domain is bullshit! And diesel fuel has been used as a fracing agent for many moons by all service companies. This is not some brand new thing that just popped up on the radar. Depending on the reservoir properties is what determines what kind of frac job can be properly pumped on the formation. Diesel added to say lets say a well in OKC may lock the formation up to were it will never produce oil or gas, but use it in a well in UT and you have a successful well. I dont currently work for a energy service company but I have in the past, but I do know of a certain MAJOR company that would not release its chemical properties to a oil company for fear of another service company stealing the formula. All chemicals injected into a wellbore should be held accountable and should be enviromentally friendly IMO.
Fleece192
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11/12/2011 2:26pm
Fracking is a major issue in the county I live in (Wayne County) in NEPA. We are right along the Delaware River. They have not allowed it yet. The Delaware River Basin Commission(DRBC) has not allowed it yet after years of study. Land has already been leased to gas company's for years for up to $2500. per acre. A decision should be out before the end of the year. The next county over its been going on for a few years now. Its brought lots of help for the local economy. But its also brought contaminated wells and rivers. So far its turned allot of area people against each other with the pro and cons.
Scary stuff..Unsure Unsure
jndmx
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11/12/2011 2:53pm
11/12/2011 3:15pm
Hahaaa, nice brtatm, Draining the under ground of support has gone on since oil was discovered, what makes the environmentalist so sure it's fracking for natural...
Hahaaa, nice brtatm, Draining the under ground of support has gone on since oil was discovered, what makes the environmentalist so sure it's fracking for natural gas causing it? Oh, that's right money generated toward another dead-end.

The earth has been here for a dozen yrs, people been walking the earth for .0000001 of that time but when something goes down it's always the latest craze fault.

I know, I know... I need to go hug a tree
brlatm wrote:
The very first frac jobs used were with nitro glycerin and I have heard Napalm. The stuff used in the industry now is very enviromentally friendly...
The very first frac jobs used were with nitro glycerin and I have heard Napalm. The stuff used in the industry now is very enviromentally friendly in its chemical makeup. And frac jobs are actually designed to replace what oil and gas you get out of the formation with some type of proppant (i.e. sand).

Besides only the devil knows what goes on downhole past a wellhead anyway.
So acid is environmentally friendly? I had a Weatherford truck leak in the parking lot of my business. It ate a hole that was 2' round and 3' deep through my asphalt, gravel and sandstone in the dirt below. Put that on a formation with 4000lbs behind it and watch it crack. I don't care how much FR and sand you put behind it (or with it). That shit is not environmentally safe.
brlatm
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11/12/2011 4:47pm
So acid is environmentally friendly? I had a Weatherford truck leak in the parking lot of my business. It ate a hole that was 2' round...
So acid is environmentally friendly? I had a Weatherford truck leak in the parking lot of my business. It ate a hole that was 2' round and 3' deep through my asphalt, gravel and sandstone in the dirt below. Put that on a formation with 4000lbs behind it and watch it crack. I don't care how much FR and sand you put behind it (or with it). That shit is not environmentally safe.
I was talking about the crosslink type of systems not acid yes hydrochloric, hydroflouric and such really will do a lot of damage to stuff I will not disagree with that. There is more to fracing a well than just FR and sand.
SEEMEFIRST
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11/12/2011 4:53pm
Here in the Barnett Shale they are poking holes in the Earth like a pin cushion. You get on a hill around here and there are wells in every direction. 2 within +/- 1/2 mile of my house, and we haven't felt a thing....Dammit! I wanna feel an earthquake!
11/12/2011 4:57pm
I assume it is the same in WY as in WV, PA and Ohio ect. but hydrofracing is about the only thing going here.
brlatm
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11/12/2011 5:05pm
I assume it is the same in WY as in WV, PA and Ohio ect. but hydrofracing is about the only thing going here.
I live in Wy but I work out of North Dakota in the Bakken, the largest US oil find in heck who knows how many years. I have been on frac jobs all over the US so there is a big difference in lets just call it the attitude in different areas across the country. The same lets keep it mess free and enviromentally friendly attitude in a certain region does not really transfer over to different parts of the country. I hold no disregard for the state of AR and its people but God I hope to never go back there and work.
11/12/2011 5:37pm
Don't worry, they have the politicians in line in WV. People have no choice but to bend over.
Roach
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11/12/2011 5:39pm
Hut wrote:
They have been fracking the heck out of Pennsylvania wonder if there is a connection with the quakes in Northern Virginia :huh: [url=http://oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/U.S.-Government-Confirms-Link-Between-Earthquakes-and-Hydraulic-Fracturing.html]U.S. Government Confirms Link...
They have been fracking the heck out of Pennsylvania wonder if there is a connection with the quakes in Northern Virginia Huh

U.S. Government Confirms Link Between Earthquakes and Hydraulic Fracturing
"On 5 November an earthquake measuring 5.6 rattled Oklahoma and was felt as far away as Illinois.

Until two years ago Oklahoma typically had about 50 earthquakes a year, but in 2010, 1,047 quakes shook the state.

Why?

In Lincoln County, where most of this past weekend's seismic incidents were centered, there are 181 injection wells, according to Matt Skinner, an official from the Oklahoma Corporation Commission, the agency which oversees oil and gas production in the state."
That stat is wrong. We had around 500 earthquakes a year, not 50. Oklahoma is number 18 on states with the most seismic activity in the U.S. Most are just so small you don't feel it.
Gukamonster
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11/13/2011 4:43pm
The idiocy and complete lack of knowledge towards resource development, particularly in the Eastern United States certainly showcases why the USA is on such a decline and will be for the forseeable future.

Just compare 2 different parts of the country for a minute:

North Dakota - Montana
Resource development allowed and encouraged

Very low unemployment, high wages ($25/ hour to work at Wendy's), budget surpluses, affordable (ie. not deficit financed) investments in roads, schools, utilities, stable home prices, productive high paying jobs for young people, general prosperity.

Eastern United States and California
Resource development discouraged by increased regulation, litigation and over zealous environmental lobbying.

Highest unemployment in the country, only jobs available are low paying, gigantic municipal, city and state debts (operating budgets and especially public pensions), budget cuts to all services (but never to government salaries), rampant forclosures, sky high youth unemployment, general economic misery.

A certain part of the country sure seems hell bent on holding up a prosperous industry.

People in North Dakota, Texas and Canada care about their local water and environment too. Oil/gas extraction and mining are done there in an environmentally responsible way. It's not causing earthquakes there either...

Fracking fluid can only enter a groundwater reservoir if the surface casing / cement job is grossly negligent. It cannot go vertically upwards through miles of impermeable rock.

For those who dismiss everything that comes from someone connected with the oil & gas industry (I wonder if they might know something about oil & gas?), consider any potential bias or conflict of interest contained in reports from government and environmental groups.

There are literally tens of thousands of environmental groups in the US. Why? Don't they all have the same goal, to "protect" the environment? Would it not be more useful if some of them joined forces and combined their resources and support base to make a greater impact?

Truth is, in the last 25 years, environmental groups have proven a very lucrative financial operation. Everyone cares about the environment, donations are easy to get and money for "research" from governments is going to such a noble cause. Heck, you can even pay yourself or friends, wife, family members, etc. a large salary to operate the "charity" and use benefits in the tax code to have a lot of nice "assets".

Some environmental groups have done great things to advance the debate on important issues but the line between them and quasi-militant cronies has been extremely blurred. There is a huge financial incentive for environmentalists to sensationalize and perpetuate any type of remotely environmental issues (real, exaggerated or completely imagined). It's all they know and their existence depends on it.

There is deception on both sides of resource development, but the truth is not in the middle. On a sliding scale it's about 85% to the industry side and 15% to the environmentalists argument side.
WhKnuckle
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11/13/2011 5:41pm
"Fracking fluid can only enter a groundwater reservoir if the surface casing / cement job is grossly negligent. It cannot go vertically upwards through miles of impermeable rock."

This may be true, but it is misleading - because many of the wells in Pennsylvania are not "miles" deep. Many of those wells are a few thousand feet deep. That's a big difference. And it's not certain exactly how the strata communicates underground, there's absolutely NO way to be certain exactly how the shale fractures when the fracking operation is performed, and therefore there's no way that anyone can be certain whether fracking fluid or natural gas can enter ground water or not. And most of those shallower wells are not drilled and completed by the majors, they're done by smaller companies that have traditionally been "cowboy" operations and are generally regarded as less responsible than the big companies.

I've worked in the energy business most of my life - over 30 years - in every aspect from exploration to power production, and I have no confidence that a pure exploration company won't rely on widely-held assumptions that have no real scientific data to support them.

The problem is, you can't be right 85% of the time. You have to be right 100% of the time. You CANNOT allow fracking fluids or natural gas to enter groundwater that is used for drinking water. You can NEVER do that, no matter what. And I think there's abundant evidence that those explorations companies aren't 100% successful.

I think they can be 100% successful, but if you're wrong once and you contaminate drinking water once, you are killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

As far as comparing shale gas operations in Texas to Pennsylvania and trying to blame environmentalists for unemployment in the Northeast, that's total propaganda bullshit. Texas wells are much deeper than the ones that are causing trouble in Pennsylvania, and are therefore MUCH less likely to pollute ground water with fracking fluid. Keep the right wing kook propaganda out of the argument - it's difficult enough just working with the facts.
11/13/2011 5:42pm
Ignorance is bliss. If you think it is an environmental thing god bless ya for being able to be in a position to believe so. The overall crookedness of companies that overrun state capitals and bend politicians and strong arm and cheat people is so unbelievable that one of the few actionable responses people have is to claim environmental.
jmar
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11/13/2011 5:50pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
"Fracking fluid can only enter a groundwater reservoir if the surface casing / cement job is grossly negligent. It cannot go vertically upwards through miles of...
"Fracking fluid can only enter a groundwater reservoir if the surface casing / cement job is grossly negligent. It cannot go vertically upwards through miles of impermeable rock."

This may be true, but it is misleading - because many of the wells in Pennsylvania are not "miles" deep. Many of those wells are a few thousand feet deep. That's a big difference. And it's not certain exactly how the strata communicates underground, there's absolutely NO way to be certain exactly how the shale fractures when the fracking operation is performed, and therefore there's no way that anyone can be certain whether fracking fluid or natural gas can enter ground water or not. And most of those shallower wells are not drilled and completed by the majors, they're done by smaller companies that have traditionally been "cowboy" operations and are generally regarded as less responsible than the big companies.

I've worked in the energy business most of my life - over 30 years - in every aspect from exploration to power production, and I have no confidence that a pure exploration company won't rely on widely-held assumptions that have no real scientific data to support them.

The problem is, you can't be right 85% of the time. You have to be right 100% of the time. You CANNOT allow fracking fluids or natural gas to enter groundwater that is used for drinking water. You can NEVER do that, no matter what. And I think there's abundant evidence that those explorations companies aren't 100% successful.

I think they can be 100% successful, but if you're wrong once and you contaminate drinking water once, you are killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

As far as comparing shale gas operations in Texas to Pennsylvania and trying to blame environmentalists for unemployment in the Northeast, that's total propaganda bullshit. Texas wells are much deeper than the ones that are causing trouble in Pennsylvania, and are therefore MUCH less likely to pollute ground water with fracking fluid. Keep the right wing kook propaganda out of the argument - it's difficult enough just working with the facts.
But what does that matter if you can make $25 an hour at Wendy's?:Unsure

The $25 dollar number at Wendy's is exaggerated, and we are in a shit economy today because we sold our souls for good times like they are having in, not only North Dakota, but in Midland and Odessa TX.

Oil, natural gas, who cares. Nothing is more important than clean water.
brlatm
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11/13/2011 6:30pm
jmar wrote:
But what does that matter if you can make $25 an hour at Wendy's?::unsure: The $25 dollar number at Wendy's is exaggerated, and we are in...
But what does that matter if you can make $25 an hour at Wendy's?:Unsure

The $25 dollar number at Wendy's is exaggerated, and we are in a shit economy today because we sold our souls for good times like they are having in, not only North Dakota, but in Midland and Odessa TX.

Oil, natural gas, who cares. Nothing is more important than clean water.
The going rate at Taco Johns posted in Williston, ND is $15.50 an hour and the wait to get a burger at McDonalds is nearly an hour. I will agree on the clean water I have no problem with that and Whknuckle is right the wells in PA and the NE are entirely different from the wells in say ND or TX. I wasnt trying to bring any right wing propaganda to the issue just show a different side of it. I am not naive enough to see that there are not problems in the industry with the "Cowboy" outfits spoken about above.

And according to a youtube video I watched the other day the local strippers in ND are making $4000 a night! Holy crap that is insane.

And Jim times are not all that prosperous in Midland and Odessa my whole family lives there while it is good, its nothing like the late 70's early 80's in the region.
WhKnuckle
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11/13/2011 6:33pm
jmar wrote:
But what does that matter if you can make $25 an hour at Wendy's?::unsure: The $25 dollar number at Wendy's is exaggerated, and we are in...
But what does that matter if you can make $25 an hour at Wendy's?:Unsure

The $25 dollar number at Wendy's is exaggerated, and we are in a shit economy today because we sold our souls for good times like they are having in, not only North Dakota, but in Midland and Odessa TX.

Oil, natural gas, who cares. Nothing is more important than clean water.
brlatm wrote:
The going rate at Taco Johns posted in Williston, ND is $15.50 an hour and the wait to get a burger at McDonalds is nearly an...
The going rate at Taco Johns posted in Williston, ND is $15.50 an hour and the wait to get a burger at McDonalds is nearly an hour. I will agree on the clean water I have no problem with that and Whknuckle is right the wells in PA and the NE are entirely different from the wells in say ND or TX. I wasnt trying to bring any right wing propaganda to the issue just show a different side of it. I am not naive enough to see that there are not problems in the industry with the "Cowboy" outfits spoken about above.

And according to a youtube video I watched the other day the local strippers in ND are making $4000 a night! Holy crap that is insane.

And Jim times are not all that prosperous in Midland and Odessa my whole family lives there while it is good, its nothing like the late 70's early 80's in the region.
I wasn't referring to your posts, which are excellent descriptions of this process and the intricacies of it. I was responding to Gukamonster. Sorry for that confusion.
brlatm
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11/13/2011 6:39pm
No problems man I want to see everyone work in unison for the economy as a whole to prosper. I know and have heard about the supposed groundwater contamination in say Western Colorado and PA and I would attribute those to a push to complete the well which I am sure you are aware of. I say its BS and the companies should be held accountable for trying to turn a buck faster. While the current operator I work for strives to complete wells in a timely manner we will not sacrifice environmental contamination to do it.
jmar
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11/13/2011 6:43pm
jmar wrote:
But what does that matter if you can make $25 an hour at Wendy's?::unsure: The $25 dollar number at Wendy's is exaggerated, and we are in...
But what does that matter if you can make $25 an hour at Wendy's?:Unsure

The $25 dollar number at Wendy's is exaggerated, and we are in a shit economy today because we sold our souls for good times like they are having in, not only North Dakota, but in Midland and Odessa TX.

Oil, natural gas, who cares. Nothing is more important than clean water.
brlatm wrote:
The going rate at Taco Johns posted in Williston, ND is $15.50 an hour and the wait to get a burger at McDonalds is nearly an...
The going rate at Taco Johns posted in Williston, ND is $15.50 an hour and the wait to get a burger at McDonalds is nearly an hour. I will agree on the clean water I have no problem with that and Whknuckle is right the wells in PA and the NE are entirely different from the wells in say ND or TX. I wasnt trying to bring any right wing propaganda to the issue just show a different side of it. I am not naive enough to see that there are not problems in the industry with the "Cowboy" outfits spoken about above.

And according to a youtube video I watched the other day the local strippers in ND are making $4000 a night! Holy crap that is insane.

And Jim times are not all that prosperous in Midland and Odessa my whole family lives there while it is good, its nothing like the late 70's early 80's in the region.
I am in airports every week. And every time I run into someone from Midland, or Odessa, they are telling me that if you want a room in a hotel that you must make reservations at least three months in advance. They say that there isn't enough housing to handle those working in these areas.

I heard it again from an oil and gas attorney from Midland on Thursday, at Dallas Luv Field.
Maybe they are lying. I have no idea, since it's not in an area that I am ever around.
brlatm
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11/13/2011 6:50pm
jmar wrote:
I am in airports every week. And every time I run into someone from Midland, or Odessa, they are telling me that if you want a...
I am in airports every week. And every time I run into someone from Midland, or Odessa, they are telling me that if you want a room in a hotel that you must make reservations at least three months in advance. They say that there isn't enough housing to handle those working in these areas.

I heard it again from an oil and gas attorney from Midland on Thursday, at Dallas Luv Field.
Maybe they are lying. I have no idea, since it's not in an area that I am ever around.
I was more referring to the basic cost of living going up and the wages staying the same for the last 8-10 yrs Jim sorry for the confusion in my post. Yes the oil/gas is still booming but I know the wages are still relatively low there compared to other parts of the country. I know wages for my type of work are nearly double here in ND than what it is in that area.

And its odd someone said that about rooms because I got a room 2 days before flying to Midland on Memorial day for my daughter and myself.

Maybe it has multiplied exponentially since then who knows I have not been back so maybe I am lying now.

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