Cheater Team

72kiteboarder
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72kiteboarder
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 5:34am
Are Pro Circuit bikes so much better that they are basically a Cheater Team? Seems to me that every year, they are at the top of the podium no matter who is riding for them.

We need a real Production Rule in Motocross. The imbalance between the big money teams/bikes and lower tier team is so big that it take crashing out for anyone else to win against them.
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Electro21 8/18/2011 4:11pm
8/18/2011 4:11pm
The riders can barely get to the races with sponsors. Make the bikes stock, and that would probably affect sponsorship.
smc916
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smc916 8/18/2011 4:16pm
8/18/2011 4:16pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2011 4:17pm
There is a rulebook so everyone has to play by the same rules, teams shouldn't be punished for working harder than their competitors. The fact that PC supplies motors, suspension, parts, and etc. to so many of the other teams is a testament of his work. Mitch doesn't have the unlimited resources to use like the factories do, so he has to be sure that what he does works.
JJO741
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JJO741 8/18/2011 4:19pm
8/18/2011 4:19pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2011 4:20pm
You do realize Mitch builds the engines for the majority of his top competition? Pro Circuit wins because they work harder than everyone else.
haydos25
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haydos25 8/18/2011 4:33pm
8/18/2011 4:33pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2011 4:33pm
Pro Circuit wins because year after year they have the best riders, and they have a whole shedload full of them. When each year you have 3 or 4 of the top 10 riders in the series and put them on the best equipment you can give them, with the best support network and gameplan to do well then you're going to get alot of championships.

Name one rider who was not capable of winning atleast in spurts that has gone to PC and become a champion. It's the rider and always will be. PC just lets them live up to that talent.

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j100
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j100 8/18/2011 5:10pm
8/18/2011 5:10pm
did you really post this thread? Woohoo
NeverRaced
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NeverRaced 8/18/2011 5:13pm
8/18/2011 5:13pm
If you think those bikes are running the stock bore and stroke than pass me what you smoking.
mxdadx2
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mxdadx2 8/18/2011 5:14pm
8/18/2011 5:14pm
Many teams don't abide by the rules. For Instance in the lites class you are only allowed to spend so much on suspension. PC Works suspension exceeds that amount and AMA doesn't enforce the rule. So if you have the money you might be able to compete. If you send your motor to Procircuit, you will not get the same motor that the team is running. There motors are designed to last one race and are completely rebuilt after each race.
haydos25
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haydos25 8/18/2011 5:21pm
8/18/2011 5:21pm
mxdadx2 wrote:
Many teams don't abide by the rules. For Instance in the lites class you are only allowed to spend so much on suspension. PC Works suspension...
Many teams don't abide by the rules. For Instance in the lites class you are only allowed to spend so much on suspension. PC Works suspension exceeds that amount and AMA doesn't enforce the rule. So if you have the money you might be able to compete. If you send your motor to Procircuit, you will not get the same motor that the team is running. There motors are designed to last one race and are completely rebuilt after each race.
I've read on a few occasions when people have refered to Barcia over revving his bike, that it was designed to be run for the entire series and was tested for that amount of hours on the dyno with no issues. Yes they are rebuilt every week, but not because they need it, just to be sure. No way in hell would they run that close tot he performance threshold when they know first hand what a DNF can do to your championship.

But i understand some people are happy wearing there tin foil hats and spouting conspiracy theory's so i'll leave it be.
The Roooster 8/18/2011 5:27pm
8/18/2011 5:27pm
72kiteboarder wrote:
Are Pro Circuit bikes so much better that they are basically a Cheater Team? Seems to me that every year, they are at the top of...
Are Pro Circuit bikes so much better that they are basically a Cheater Team? Seems to me that every year, they are at the top of the podium no matter who is riding for them.

We need a real Production Rule in Motocross. The imbalance between the big money teams/bikes and lower tier team is so big that it take crashing out for anyone else to win against them.
Just when you think posts can't get any more stupid, someone steps up and shows you how wrong you are....
NeverRaced
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NeverRaced 8/18/2011 5:37pm
8/18/2011 5:37pm
72kiteboarder wrote:
Are Pro Circuit bikes so much better that they are basically a Cheater Team? Seems to me that every year, they are at the top of...
Are Pro Circuit bikes so much better that they are basically a Cheater Team? Seems to me that every year, they are at the top of the podium no matter who is riding for them.

We need a real Production Rule in Motocross. The imbalance between the big money teams/bikes and lower tier team is so big that it take crashing out for anyone else to win against them.
The Roooster wrote:
Just when you think posts can't get any more stupid, someone steps up and shows you how wrong you are....
Really. If every rider had a bike just like that teams bikes the racing would be different. I say roll of some stock bikes let them have all morning to dial them in and see just where the talent lies.
haydos25
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haydos25 8/18/2011 5:42pm
8/18/2011 5:42pm
72kiteboarder wrote:
Are Pro Circuit bikes so much better that they are basically a Cheater Team? Seems to me that every year, they are at the top of...
Are Pro Circuit bikes so much better that they are basically a Cheater Team? Seems to me that every year, they are at the top of the podium no matter who is riding for them.

We need a real Production Rule in Motocross. The imbalance between the big money teams/bikes and lower tier team is so big that it take crashing out for anyone else to win against them.
The Roooster wrote:
Just when you think posts can't get any more stupid, someone steps up and shows you how wrong you are....
NeverRaced wrote:
Really. If every rider had a bike just like that teams bikes the racing would be different. I say roll of some stock bikes let them...
Really. If every rider had a bike just like that teams bikes the racing would be different. I say roll of some stock bikes let them have all morning to dial them in and see just where the talent lies.
Wilson would win, Bagget would be second, Rattray would pull a crap start and bulldog through to finish 3rd and the geico team would round out the top 5. Talent wins races, mini dads blame the bike, fans who's rider isnt good enough to ride for PC blame the bikes. No doubt the sport would benefit from more teams with the facility and resources of Pro Circuit, but its hardly Mitch's fault that isnt happening.

In oz we call that tall poppy syndrome, this is a bloke who's put his heart and soul into the sport, invested millions of his hard earned and spent more hours than i care to imagine, thinking of ways to make his team better and all anyone wants to do is shit on him and call him a cheat. Unfortunate really.
fader418
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fader418 8/18/2011 5:43pm
8/18/2011 5:43pm
This is easy.....allow 250 2 strokes in the 250 class.....I like every thing DC does for the nationals but I will never understand why he wont allow this.....
The Roooster 8/18/2011 5:45pm
8/18/2011 5:45pm
haydos25 wrote:
Wilson would win, Bagget would be second, Rattray would pull a crap start and bulldog through to finish 3rd and the geico team would round out...
Wilson would win, Bagget would be second, Rattray would pull a crap start and bulldog through to finish 3rd and the geico team would round out the top 5. Talent wins races, mini dads blame the bike, fans who's rider isnt good enough to ride for PC blame the bikes. No doubt the sport would benefit from more teams with the facility and resources of Pro Circuit, but its hardly Mitch's fault that isnt happening.

In oz we call that tall poppy syndrome, this is a bloke who's put his heart and soul into the sport, invested millions of his hard earned and spent more hours than i care to imagine, thinking of ways to make his team better and all anyone wants to do is shit on him and call him a cheat. Unfortunate really.
Spot on !!

Pro Circuit's hard work is done before a bike even hits the track - during the recruiting, signing and motivating time.
72kiteboarder
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72kiteboarder 8/18/2011 5:55pm
8/18/2011 5:55pm
So you are all ok with one of a kind parts on a production bike that other teams do not have access to? If it is all about the riders, then lets get a true production rule that puts all the racers on a level playing field. Only production over the counter parts should be allowed on any bike.
If, like you say that it is not about the bike, then a production rule that is fair should not matter.


Otherwise, lets go with straight works bikes. If like you all say that the bike does not matter, then an awesome rider on a bone stock bike should be able to compete with a works PC bike.
NeverRaced
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NeverRaced 8/18/2011 5:55pm
8/18/2011 5:55pm
The Roooster wrote:
Just when you think posts can't get any more stupid, someone steps up and shows you how wrong you are....
NeverRaced wrote:
Really. If every rider had a bike just like that teams bikes the racing would be different. I say roll of some stock bikes let them...
Really. If every rider had a bike just like that teams bikes the racing would be different. I say roll of some stock bikes let them have all morning to dial them in and see just where the talent lies.
haydos25 wrote:
Wilson would win, Bagget would be second, Rattray would pull a crap start and bulldog through to finish 3rd and the geico team would round out...
Wilson would win, Bagget would be second, Rattray would pull a crap start and bulldog through to finish 3rd and the geico team would round out the top 5. Talent wins races, mini dads blame the bike, fans who's rider isnt good enough to ride for PC blame the bikes. No doubt the sport would benefit from more teams with the facility and resources of Pro Circuit, but its hardly Mitch's fault that isnt happening.

In oz we call that tall poppy syndrome, this is a bloke who's put his heart and soul into the sport, invested millions of his hard earned and spent more hours than i care to imagine, thinking of ways to make his team better and all anyone wants to do is shit on him and call him a cheat. Unfortunate really.
So with that said than how did Tomac podium the other day. And how did Durham beat a few of them and maybe one day they will tear down a PC bike and see its' not stock bore and stroke.
haydos25
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haydos25 8/18/2011 6:04pm
8/18/2011 6:04pm
72kiteboarder wrote:
So you are all ok with one of a kind parts on a production bike that other teams do not have access to? If it is...
So you are all ok with one of a kind parts on a production bike that other teams do not have access to? If it is all about the riders, then lets get a true production rule that puts all the racers on a level playing field. Only production over the counter parts should be allowed on any bike.
If, like you say that it is not about the bike, then a production rule that is fair should not matter.


Otherwise, lets go with straight works bikes. If like you all say that the bike does not matter, then an awesome rider on a bone stock bike should be able to compete with a works PC bike.
an awesome rider on a stock bike could definitely compete with a works PC bike. The only problem is that PC year after year have THE most awesome riders in the class. This is why they win, not because of some super secret oil cooler made from unobtanium.

The best riders want to ride for Pro circuit, so they win championships, the more they win the more the best riders want to ride for them, its cyclical, you follow me bro??
Oldskool
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Oldskool 8/18/2011 6:05pm
8/18/2011 6:05pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2011 6:08pm
72kiteboarder wrote:
Are Pro Circuit bikes so much better that they are basically a Cheater Team? Seems to me that every year, they are at the top of...
Are Pro Circuit bikes so much better that they are basically a Cheater Team? Seems to me that every year, they are at the top of the podium no matter who is riding for them.

We need a real Production Rule in Motocross. The imbalance between the big money teams/bikes and lower tier team is so big that it take crashing out for anyone else to win against them.
I've read some REALLY STUPID posts on Vital in the time that I have been registered here but this is the most STUPID one of all.

This post is a really clear example of what is wrong with people these days in this country. The VICTIM MENTALITY is killing us day by day. Too many people, like the idiot that wrote this post, think that because someone has worked harder than them and has raised the bar due to that hard work, that the hard workers should be penalized and brought back to the least common denominator to make it "fair". Hell, let's just NOT KEEP SCORE! Yea, that's it, that's the ticket.

BULLSHIT!!!

Go ahead and admit it...you are a BIG PUSSY. Damn, this kind of shit really pisses me off.

Fuck you, loser!


Sorry, GuyB...go ahead a click me if you need to clean up the board.
haydos25
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haydos25 8/18/2011 6:11pm
8/18/2011 6:11pm
NeverRaced wrote:
So with that said than how did Tomac podium the other day. And how did Durham beat a few of them and maybe one day they...
So with that said than how did Tomac podium the other day. And how did Durham beat a few of them and maybe one day they will tear down a PC bike and see its' not stock bore and stroke.
You just proved my point, Tomac has beaten them a couple times, Tomac podiumed. Tickles getting beaten a lot this year. Is his bike not a big bore but the other 3's are?? Tomac killed it last week and ended on the podium. They're not on unbeatable bikes. They have almost unbeatable confidence at the moment.

A fast racer beats a fast bike every day of the week. It's that simple. PC has fast bikes and fast riders, hence they win.

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Flatliner
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Flatliner 8/18/2011 6:28pm
8/18/2011 6:28pm
haydos25 wrote:
Pro Circuit wins because year after year they have the best riders, and they have a whole shedload full of them. When each year you have...
Pro Circuit wins because year after year they have the best riders, and they have a whole shedload full of them. When each year you have 3 or 4 of the top 10 riders in the series and put them on the best equipment you can give them, with the best support network and gameplan to do well then you're going to get alot of championships.

Name one rider who was not capable of winning atleast in spurts that has gone to PC and become a champion. It's the rider and always will be. PC just lets them live up to that talent.
PC bikes aren't always the fastest bikes on the track either. Last year Trey wasn't getting out motored by pourcel.
72kiteboarder
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72kiteboarder 8/18/2011 6:44pm
8/18/2011 6:44pm
72kiteboarder wrote:
Are Pro Circuit bikes so much better that they are basically a Cheater Team? Seems to me that every year, they are at the top of...
Are Pro Circuit bikes so much better that they are basically a Cheater Team? Seems to me that every year, they are at the top of the podium no matter who is riding for them.

We need a real Production Rule in Motocross. The imbalance between the big money teams/bikes and lower tier team is so big that it take crashing out for anyone else to win against them.
Oldskool wrote:
I've read some REALLY STUPID posts on Vital in the time that I have been registered here but this is the most STUPID one of all...
I've read some REALLY STUPID posts on Vital in the time that I have been registered here but this is the most STUPID one of all.

This post is a really clear example of what is wrong with people these days in this country. The VICTIM MENTALITY is killing us day by day. Too many people, like the idiot that wrote this post, think that because someone has worked harder than them and has raised the bar due to that hard work, that the hard workers should be penalized and brought back to the least common denominator to make it "fair". Hell, let's just NOT KEEP SCORE! Yea, that's it, that's the ticket.

BULLSHIT!!!

Go ahead and admit it...you are a BIG PUSSY. Damn, this kind of shit really pisses me off.

Fuck you, loser!


Sorry, GuyB...go ahead a click me if you need to clean up the board.
It is a sanctioned racing event, if it not supposed to be fair, then I think you may not understand the meaning of Racing. Also, if you think that the guys that are not on PC bikes are not working hard, you really do not know what the hell you are talking about.

If it is not about the bike, the a real production rule would not mean a damn thing.

As for the Big Pussy comment, sure, think what you want. I race MX (broke my back doing it and still ride) and I have served my country in the US Navy for the last 21 years. I am a BIG PUSSY.
500guy
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500guy 8/18/2011 6:50pm
8/18/2011 6:50pm
I don't know if they cheat but I bet they push the limits farther than anyone else and how cool would it be to control your competitions performance ?
Grieby54
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Grieby54 8/18/2011 6:53pm
8/18/2011 6:53pm
Somebody had better notify Tickle that he forgot to pick up his cheater bike, because judging by his results his bike must be a pile of shit...
racin mason
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racin mason 8/18/2011 6:57pm
8/18/2011 6:57pm
IF there is really aproduction rule, why is it that the only thing stock on the top team bikes is the name??
Yamaharider1474 8/18/2011 7:02pm
8/18/2011 7:02pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2011 7:05pm
72kiteboarder wrote:
So you are all ok with one of a kind parts on a production bike that other teams do not have access to? If it is...
So you are all ok with one of a kind parts on a production bike that other teams do not have access to? If it is all about the riders, then lets get a true production rule that puts all the racers on a level playing field. Only production over the counter parts should be allowed on any bike.
If, like you say that it is not about the bike, then a production rule that is fair should not matter.


Otherwise, lets go with straight works bikes. If like you all say that the bike does not matter, then an awesome rider on a bone stock bike should be able to compete with a works PC bike.
Pin it to win it and the best man will win enough said this post is Tuggin my Balls..............They are all on the same bikes to a spec meaning th rule book states that only certin parts may be changed or lightened and other parts my not be changed at all frame etc. with that said anyone with the coin can buy what the PC boys are using no special pixey dust is sprinkled on Deans/baggett bike that makes them faster they just practice and pin it when its time.
Yamaharider1474 8/18/2011 7:03pm
8/18/2011 7:03pm
racin mason wrote:
IF there is really aproduction rule, why is it that the only thing stock on the top team bikes is the name??
The frame and sub frame are 100% stock............and motor displacment is regulated and just because Mitch is the master with a porting tool and your Daddy wasen't doesn't make him a cheater. STAMP IT!
championshipCRs 8/18/2011 7:07pm
8/18/2011 7:07pm
The AMA took 5 motors from 250 teams after Unadilla ended.

My son is a Honda Mechanic and his rider never came back to the pits after moto 2...when they found him he was with 5 other riders being held by the AMA. The officials walked with the bike back to the pits, stayed with the bike until the engine was removed and they took it.

His rider finished just outside of the top 20....I am not sure who the other riders were who had engines taken. I was in the pits after the race and they had 3 officials watching close to make sure no engine switching was going on. took about 30 minutes to remove the engine and hand it off.

You would think one of Mitch's bikes and a Geico bike should have been part of that process...not sure who else though.

I have been to 10+ races this year and never saw this happen before.....
championshipCRs 8/18/2011 7:11pm
8/18/2011 7:11pm
I think its great they are checking....my sons team plays by the rules so there were no worries...

Wouldnt that be something if someone on a big team gets busted this week...
Oldskool
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Oldskool 8/18/2011 7:15pm
8/18/2011 7:15pm
72kiteboarder wrote:
It is a sanctioned racing event, if it not supposed to be fair, then I think you may not understand the meaning of Racing. Also, if...
It is a sanctioned racing event, if it not supposed to be fair, then I think you may not understand the meaning of Racing. Also, if you think that the guys that are not on PC bikes are not working hard, you really do not know what the hell you are talking about.

If it is not about the bike, the a real production rule would not mean a damn thing.

As for the Big Pussy comment, sure, think what you want. I race MX (broke my back doing it and still ride) and I have served my country in the US Navy for the last 21 years. I am a BIG PUSSY.
It is a sanctioned racing event and there are RULES that are the same for everyone. The PC team has not been protested and found to have anything illegal on any of their bikes that I am aware of. Show me PROOF of cheating or shut the fuck up about cheating and fairness. To call them a "Cheater Team" is just ignorant, naive, envious soccer mom bullshit. PC just does it better, UNDER THE RULES, than anyone else. Their bikes are nearer to perfect and Mitch attracts the BEST TALENT in the business in every department from A to Z.

I didn't say the other teams weren't working hard...they just aren't working as hard in the right places as the PC guys.

While I appreciate your service for your country and mine, I stand my my original comments. You can still be a BIG PUSSY and be in the Navy. "Don't ask, don't tell"...but you just outed yourself, BITCH.
ianhendry46
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ianhendry46 8/18/2011 7:16pm
8/18/2011 7:16pm
if you watch the PC bikes against say the DNA shredstick yamaha bikes on any strait away you will see that those bikes are just a fast and same with the Geico Honda bikes. Its just a simple fact of who lets off and who doesnt. PC builds the motors for the Geico honda team and the yamaha bikes are built by a british company. and after every race, the top three bikes overall are torn down and inspected by the AMA, so you can imagine how many times those PC bikes have been checked this year. Mitch's team just works harder because he expects it from them. and as far as suspension goes, they all have top of the line suspension built by different companies and everyone of the "team" bikes has something that another team cant get. Honda uses factory connection and they have stuff that is not available to the public.
stillwelding
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stillwelding 8/18/2011 7:19pm
8/18/2011 7:19pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2011 7:19pm
72kiteboarder wrote:
Are Pro Circuit bikes so much better that they are basically a Cheater Team? Seems to me that every year, they are at the top of...
Are Pro Circuit bikes so much better that they are basically a Cheater Team? Seems to me that every year, they are at the top of the podium no matter who is riding for them.

We need a real Production Rule in Motocross. The imbalance between the big money teams/bikes and lower tier team is so big that it take crashing out for anyone else to win against them.
#1. No other team, competing at this level, runs a full-time performance parts manufacturing business.

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