4 strokes and endo's

gt80rider
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gt80rider
Edited Date/Time 2/21/2012 6:21am
Is it just me or does it seem like there are more huge endos during the 4 stroke era? Maybe I have poor memory, but I cant remember so many huge endo's happening in sx during the 2 stroke years. And we never seem to hear afterwards if they were caused by weird jump faces or if they were caused by the 4 strokes stuttering or locking up on the jump. Just in the last few weeks tyla broke his neck, reed broke his back, and bowers over in ax had a huge endo.
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jtiger12
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jtiger12 2/20/2012 11:47am
2/20/2012 11:47am
tblazier has posted just about every supercross in existence. Make it your homework assignment and get back to us after atl.
I seem to remember alot of endos in the old 2 stroke days, they just weren't moving as fast and clearing obstacles this large.
that corner "triple" reed crashed on was as big if not bigger than the triples back in the mid 90's.
Shawn142
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Shawn142 2/20/2012 11:47am
2/20/2012 11:47am Edited Date/Time 2/20/2012 11:47am
Go watch some of the crash videos from the 90s, they're jam packed with 2-stroke endos.
Highsider
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Highsider 2/20/2012 11:58am
2/20/2012 11:58am Edited Date/Time 2/20/2012 12:00pm
gt80rider wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem like there are more huge endos during the 4 stroke era? Maybe I have poor memory, but I...
Is it just me or does it seem like there are more huge endos during the 4 stroke era? Maybe I have poor memory, but I cant remember so many huge endo's happening in sx during the 2 stroke years. And we never seem to hear afterwards if they were caused by weird jump faces or if they were caused by the 4 strokes stuttering or locking up on the jump. Just in the last few weeks tyla broke his neck, reed broke his back, and bowers over in ax had a huge endo.
Give it a fuggin break!

To the dungeon with this fishing thread.

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Mr. Ted
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Mr. Ted 2/20/2012 12:06pm
2/20/2012 12:06pm
Not 4strokes, but perhaps track design. As triples get longer and run up/run off get shorter more shit seems to be happening. JMO.
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CR250Rider 2/20/2012 12:14pm
2/20/2012 12:14pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2012 12:15pm
well, a body in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force...

as bikes get heavier, riders lighter, the outside force that the rider can contribute to arresting the bikes endo becomes less.

simple physics

that said, the added torque of the "double size" engines causes the tracks to deteriorate faster and creates more kickers
Motocross83 2/20/2012 12:19pm
2/20/2012 12:19pm
gt80rider wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem like there are more huge endos during the 4 stroke era? Maybe I have poor memory, but I...
Is it just me or does it seem like there are more huge endos during the 4 stroke era? Maybe I have poor memory, but I cant remember so many huge endo's happening in sx during the 2 stroke years. And we never seem to hear afterwards if they were caused by weird jump faces or if they were caused by the 4 strokes stuttering or locking up on the jump. Just in the last few weeks tyla broke his neck, reed broke his back, and bowers over in ax had a huge endo.
I think that's a legitimate query but I don't really think there's anything in it. I mean it's a fair point that 4 strokes do require a slightly different technique than 2 strokes, the have more engine breaking etc. But it's nothing these guys can't handle and if anything, I would guess that many people consider 4 strokes far more predictable and easier to jump. I know I do.

If there is an increase I think it's more down to faster tracks, a faster pace. There's so much competition these days.... you have to ride with maximum intensity the whole 15 or 20 laps.
Motocross83 2/20/2012 12:26pm
2/20/2012 12:26pm
CR250Rider wrote:
well, a body in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force... as bikes get heavier, riders lighter, the outside force that...
well, a body in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force...

as bikes get heavier, riders lighter, the outside force that the rider can contribute to arresting the bikes endo becomes less.

simple physics

that said, the added torque of the "double size" engines causes the tracks to deteriorate faster and creates more kickers
Really though once you're sent into an endo there's very little you can do about it physically, doesn't really matter how light the bike is, pulling on the bars won't help. Your only counter is to panic rev and brace for impact. I agree with your last point, there may be something in that.
cpj36
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cpj36 2/20/2012 12:34pm
2/20/2012 12:34pm
If you have to have a problem you'll fare better on a 2 stk, you could have a seizure or forget to turn your gas on with a 2 stk and not even go down.

There's been quite a few that you wouldn't normally see happen on a 2 stk, off the top of my head, the whole hiccup/front end falling out'a the sky thing or Dungey on that little double exiting a corner when he had an engine problem or James vs Reed in the whoops last year.

Anything that interferes with the rotation of the rear wheel seems much more catastrophic on a 4 stk, but you can figure that out just by riding one for a couple laps.
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JJO741 2/20/2012 12:35pm
2/20/2012 12:35pm
Yeap injuries never occured when 2 strokes were around! Lets blame the 4 strokes for rider error to push the 2 stroke agenda.
newmann
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newmann 2/20/2012 12:49pm
2/20/2012 12:49pm
CR250Rider wrote:
well, a body in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force... as bikes get heavier, riders lighter, the outside force that...
well, a body in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force...

as bikes get heavier, riders lighter, the outside force that the rider can contribute to arresting the bikes endo becomes less.

simple physics

that said, the added torque of the "double size" engines causes the tracks to deteriorate faster and creates more kickers
Imagine that, it took a 2 stroke afficianado to point out the obvious. the deterioration of the tracks due to the big thumpers was the first thing I thought of when I saw Reed get tossed. The jump faces get holes dug into them and that's what it looked like to me that set him into the dreaded endo. The fact that his front wheel planted into a soft hole upon landing didn't help matters. He just augered straight in, the bike just came to an abrupt damn halt. Bad situation and a bad outcome. That was a great race going on at the moment. Maybe the AMA could suggest something like a 350.....LOL
newmann
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newmann 2/20/2012 12:53pm
2/20/2012 12:53pm
JJO741 wrote:
Yeap injuries never occured when 2 strokes were around! Lets blame the 4 strokes for rider error to push the 2 stroke agenda.
Not a 2 stroke issue, it's a 450 torquemonster issue. No denying the obvious. There's a reason 500's were quickly dropped from the SX series way back when. Why would a modern 450 with way more torque and horsepower be the solution? Track crew needs to keep a better eye on things like that. SX takes out way too many riders before the real racing (outdoors) series gets rolling.
YZ125H1
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YZ125H1 2/20/2012 1:03pm
2/20/2012 1:03pm
Yeah a lot of those triple or even quads are really sketchy even for the pros ability once the track gets eroded enough. Even at my local track the 4 strokes just wear so many ruts into the corners and jump faces it takes my 125 forever to wear a rut in. I hope 450's soon meet the fate of the 500's its just too much power for SX tracks or they need to design them better. The Endo effect really depends on the face of a jump typically 4 strokes dive a little more and panic revving doesnt always work with them.
Big Tex27
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Big Tex27 2/20/2012 1:16pm
2/20/2012 1:16pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2012 1:54pm
imo most endos come when seat bouncing something right out of a corner or at high speeds on a smaller jump.. example reed seat bounced that jump right out the corner and endoed.. i dont think 2 stroke or 4 stroke would make much difference..
jsanger211
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jsanger211 2/20/2012 1:30pm
2/20/2012 1:30pm
You gotta be kidding me you silly two stroke guys will look for any reason to cry about how four strokes wronged you. Its like listening to Women, There is no changing your opinion. Isnt there a two stroke forum you could be on?
newmann
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newmann 2/20/2012 1:58pm
2/20/2012 1:58pm
jsanger211 wrote:
You gotta be kidding me you silly two stroke guys will look for any reason to cry about how four strokes wronged you. Its like listening...
You gotta be kidding me you silly two stroke guys will look for any reason to cry about how four strokes wronged you. Its like listening to Women, There is no changing your opinion. Isnt there a two stroke forum you could be on?
Isn't there a four stroke forum you could be on? Thumpertalk maybe?Smile It's no longer a 2 stroke issue, there aren't any out there in case you haven't noticed. 450's and jumps right out of corners, sections no one would ever consider linking together on a smoker .....gotta be blind to not see the obvious. They've complained about the track breaking down but haven't done anything about it. I mean, what can they really do other than additional track prep between heats? The bikes make so much power and put it to the ground in a manner that stuff happens. Reed got bit. He admitted it was his mistake but still he got bit in a bad way.

What did Arenacross do to address the issue of 450's in tight confines?
Racer92
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Racer92 2/20/2012 2:08pm
2/20/2012 2:08pm
jsanger211 wrote:
You gotta be kidding me you silly two stroke guys will look for any reason to cry about how four strokes wronged you. Its like listening...
You gotta be kidding me you silly two stroke guys will look for any reason to cry about how four strokes wronged you. Its like listening to Women, There is no changing your opinion. Isnt there a two stroke forum you could be on?
Waaaaah, waaaaah, I dont like hearing differing viewpoints about engines so I want to censor the other guys opinion.

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GrapeApe 2/20/2012 2:11pm
2/20/2012 2:11pm
jsanger211 wrote:
You gotta be kidding me you silly two stroke guys will look for any reason to cry about how four strokes wronged you. Its like listening...
You gotta be kidding me you silly two stroke guys will look for any reason to cry about how four strokes wronged you. Its like listening to Women, There is no changing your opinion. Isnt there a two stroke forum you could be on?
Racer92 wrote:
Waaaaah, waaaaah, I dont like hearing differing viewpoints about engines so I want to censor the other guys opinion. [img]http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/41590_356461251487_6954410_n.jpg[/img]
Waaaaah, waaaaah, I dont like hearing differing viewpoints about engines so I want to censor the other guys opinion.

This reeks of irony . . .

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Racer92
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Racer92 2/21/2012 6:01am
2/21/2012 6:01am
GrapeApe wrote:
This reeks of irony . . .
I dont wanna censor a thing! Bring on the thumper fans !

Viva la difference !
Halfast816 2/21/2012 6:21am
2/21/2012 6:21am
Fat and lazy describes a growing segment of America. I resemble that so I took the easy way out and started riding four strokes. Wish I could still hang on to a 250 smoker or my 5 hundo without my hands going numb but alas the smoother pedestrian power delivery of the thumper has allowed me to continue racing longer. I bought a four stroke for the same reason my tow vehicle has an automatic transmission. It allows me to get fatter and lazier while making life easier. As far as the endo the big spinning gyro in the back has alot to say about that. Compression breaking is always there so more affect on front wheel attitude is to be expected. While at the pro level I suspect it has more to do with trust in suspension and the willingness to walk that fine line between control and chaos.

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