How long should unemployment go on?

Frogman
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11/30/2010 10:41pm
If I could...I'd eliminate it entirely.
Dropbear
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11/30/2010 11:06pm
TripleFive wrote:
You do deserve a check. You've paid into the system your entire life and now, when you need it most it's being deprived from you. Good...
You do deserve a check. You've paid into the system your entire life and now, when you need it most it's being deprived from you.

Good luck, I wish you and your family the best.,
Good luck. It can be tough. I hope it works out for you.

We get unemployment here in OZ for as long as we need it. And in today's economy most need it.
Mr. G
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12/1/2010 12:59am
It should be "Necessity is the mother of credit".
txmxer
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12/1/2010 4:44am
FlaNard wrote:
Most people find a job within a month or two once they no longer get unemployment benefits. Just sayin...
That's an empty statement. Got any details to make it meaningful?

The Shop

SteveS
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12/1/2010 6:10am
FlaNard wrote:
Most people find a job within a month or two once they no longer get unemployment benefits. Just sayin...
txmxer wrote:
That's an empty statement. Got any details to make it meaningful?
If you think about it, if the government stops giving them free money, they either have to get some kind of work for pay or find someone else to mooch off of.
txmxer
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12/1/2010 6:25am
SteveS wrote:
If you think about it, if the government stops giving them free money, they either have to get some kind of work for pay or find...
If you think about it, if the government stops giving them free money, they either have to get some kind of work for pay or find someone else to mooch off of.
Wow.

SteveS
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12/1/2010 8:44am Edited Date/Time 12/1/2010 8:44am
What's wow? They would have to eat, live somewhere. There are three alternatives for how they pay for that. Government mooch, work, or mooch off others. You know of other ways?
txmxer
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12/1/2010 8:51am
SteveS wrote:
What's wow? They would have to eat, live somewhere. There are three alternatives for how they pay for that. Government mooch, work, or mooch off others...
What's wow? They would have to eat, live somewhere. There are three alternatives for how they pay for that. Government mooch, work, or mooch off others. You know of other ways?
Mooch has a very negative connotation. To categorize everyone that has lost their job in this economy and is receiving some type of support as a moocher seems a bit harsh. Maybe I'm missing the point. What is your definition of mooch?
dcmx326
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12/1/2010 9:28am
FlaNard wrote:
Most people find a job within a month or two once they no longer get unemployment benefits. Just sayin...
txmxer wrote:
That's an empty statement. Got any details to make it meaningful?
SteveS wrote:
If you think about it, if the government stops giving them free money, they either have to get some kind of work for pay or find...
If you think about it, if the government stops giving them free money, they either have to get some kind of work for pay or find someone else to mooch off of.
Are you prepared for theft and violent crime to go through the roof?

If there was no safety net and laid off people had to fend for themselves, the murder rate and theft rate would sky rocket.

Desperate people perform desperate actions when trying to feed themselves and their family.
SteveS
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12/1/2010 9:35am Edited Date/Time 12/1/2010 9:41am
SteveS wrote:
What's wow? They would have to eat, live somewhere. There are three alternatives for how they pay for that. Government mooch, work, or mooch off others...
What's wow? They would have to eat, live somewhere. There are three alternatives for how they pay for that. Government mooch, work, or mooch off others. You know of other ways?
txmxer wrote:
Mooch has a very negative connotation. To categorize everyone that has lost their job in this economy and is receiving some type of support as a...
Mooch has a very negative connotation. To categorize everyone that has lost their job in this economy and is receiving some type of support as a moocher seems a bit harsh. Maybe I'm missing the point. What is your definition of mooch?
Mooch means to live off someone else's provision.



It can mean moving into a family member's house, a friend's house, receiving help from a family member or from your church or friends.



So at any rate, your horror at the use of the word "mooch" aside, the point is, if the government doesn't extend unemployment benefits any further than the 2 years they have it now, those people who have received the 2 years of government mooch will be forced to do something different. They might have to take that job at McDonald's. They might have to do laborer work. They might have to compete with the illegals for the housekeeping jobs. They will have to do something or starve. Apparently in D.C., that something means joining the already high number of violent criminals there. But if the unemployment stops, you have to do something else.

I've told the story before. When I lost my job 5 years ago in favor of nepotism, I never even made it onto unemployment. I made more money than allowable to collect unemployment within 2 weeks of losing my job. It wasn't from a "job", and it wasn't in my field. But I was doing temp work for a moving company, doing computer repair and service work on the side, and picked up odd jobs. It didn't take much to exceed what the unemployment benefit would have been. But I worked that way for 5 months while I assembled financing from family members and church members to open my own business. I had never intended to open my own business when I got into this line of work 20 years ago. But that's what happened.
12/1/2010 9:49am
TripleFive wrote:
You do deserve a check. You've paid into the system your entire life and now, when you need it most it's being deprived from you. Good...
You do deserve a check. You've paid into the system your entire life and now, when you need it most it's being deprived from you.

Good luck, I wish you and your family the best.,
txmxer wrote:
Not trying to be a dick, but you drew a hardline before and have softened with each post. This guy is typical of most people in...
Not trying to be a dick, but you drew a hardline before and have softened with each post. This guy is typical of most people in general. Life can be shit. It may not be luck, but it's not all just because one person tries harder than the next.
What hard line did I draw that I'm now contradicting? I would argue that this guy is not typical but rather the exception.
raynmann
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12/1/2010 9:51am
old fart called my situation my whipping post....I got your whipping post old man...FUCK YOU.....
txmxer
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12/1/2010 9:57am
TripleFive wrote:
You do deserve a check. You've paid into the system your entire life and now, when you need it most it's being deprived from you. Good...
You do deserve a check. You've paid into the system your entire life and now, when you need it most it's being deprived from you.

Good luck, I wish you and your family the best.,
txmxer wrote:
Not trying to be a dick, but you drew a hardline before and have softened with each post. This guy is typical of most people in...
Not trying to be a dick, but you drew a hardline before and have softened with each post. This guy is typical of most people in general. Life can be shit. It may not be luck, but it's not all just because one person tries harder than the next.
TripleFive wrote:
What hard line did I draw that I'm now contradicting? I would argue that this guy is not typical but rather the exception.
argue based on what? Your hunch? I don't have numbers...if you do, share them and I'll agree.

txmxer
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12/1/2010 9:58am
SteveS wrote:
What's wow? They would have to eat, live somewhere. There are three alternatives for how they pay for that. Government mooch, work, or mooch off others...
What's wow? They would have to eat, live somewhere. There are three alternatives for how they pay for that. Government mooch, work, or mooch off others. You know of other ways?
txmxer wrote:
Mooch has a very negative connotation. To categorize everyone that has lost their job in this economy and is receiving some type of support as a...
Mooch has a very negative connotation. To categorize everyone that has lost their job in this economy and is receiving some type of support as a moocher seems a bit harsh. Maybe I'm missing the point. What is your definition of mooch?
SteveS wrote:
Mooch means to live off someone else's provision. It can mean moving into a family member's house, a friend's house, receiving help from a family member...
Mooch means to live off someone else's provision.



It can mean moving into a family member's house, a friend's house, receiving help from a family member or from your church or friends.



So at any rate, your horror at the use of the word "mooch" aside, the point is, if the government doesn't extend unemployment benefits any further than the 2 years they have it now, those people who have received the 2 years of government mooch will be forced to do something different. They might have to take that job at McDonald's. They might have to do laborer work. They might have to compete with the illegals for the housekeeping jobs. They will have to do something or starve. Apparently in D.C., that something means joining the already high number of violent criminals there. But if the unemployment stops, you have to do something else.

I've told the story before. When I lost my job 5 years ago in favor of nepotism, I never even made it onto unemployment. I made more money than allowable to collect unemployment within 2 weeks of losing my job. It wasn't from a "job", and it wasn't in my field. But I was doing temp work for a moving company, doing computer repair and service work on the side, and picked up odd jobs. It didn't take much to exceed what the unemployment benefit would have been. But I worked that way for 5 months while I assembled financing from family members and church members to open my own business. I had never intended to open my own business when I got into this line of work 20 years ago. But that's what happened.
so are you kids moochers? Are your parents moochers if you have to care for them once they get old?
jmar
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12/1/2010 10:10am
The reason the unemployment is so high is because wall street finance screwed the pooch. There are a lot of people out there that are unemployed by no fault of their own. We are spending almost seven billion a month on Afghanistan, not the mention Iraq, and it's doing nothing other than making a select few even wealthier.

The numbers for extending unemployment is peanuts compared to what we are spending on this worthless war. Cut back the defense budget and take care of our own people.

SteveS
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12/1/2010 10:45am
txmxer wrote:
Mooch has a very negative connotation. To categorize everyone that has lost their job in this economy and is receiving some type of support as a...
Mooch has a very negative connotation. To categorize everyone that has lost their job in this economy and is receiving some type of support as a moocher seems a bit harsh. Maybe I'm missing the point. What is your definition of mooch?
SteveS wrote:
Mooch means to live off someone else's provision. It can mean moving into a family member's house, a friend's house, receiving help from a family member...
Mooch means to live off someone else's provision.



It can mean moving into a family member's house, a friend's house, receiving help from a family member or from your church or friends.



So at any rate, your horror at the use of the word "mooch" aside, the point is, if the government doesn't extend unemployment benefits any further than the 2 years they have it now, those people who have received the 2 years of government mooch will be forced to do something different. They might have to take that job at McDonald's. They might have to do laborer work. They might have to compete with the illegals for the housekeeping jobs. They will have to do something or starve. Apparently in D.C., that something means joining the already high number of violent criminals there. But if the unemployment stops, you have to do something else.

I've told the story before. When I lost my job 5 years ago in favor of nepotism, I never even made it onto unemployment. I made more money than allowable to collect unemployment within 2 weeks of losing my job. It wasn't from a "job", and it wasn't in my field. But I was doing temp work for a moving company, doing computer repair and service work on the side, and picked up odd jobs. It didn't take much to exceed what the unemployment benefit would have been. But I worked that way for 5 months while I assembled financing from family members and church members to open my own business. I had never intended to open my own business when I got into this line of work 20 years ago. But that's what happened.
txmxer wrote:
so are you kids moochers? Are your parents moochers if you have to care for them once they get old?
Sure, you could use the term for that.

Funny how stuck you are on the term rather than the issue. I thought you guys were the ones that said words (like the "f" word) were OK to use because they didn't hurt anything. Well, except of course the "n" word which is totally verboten.
txmxer
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12/1/2010 10:58am
SteveS wrote:
Sure, you could use the term for that. Funny how stuck you are on the term rather than the issue. I thought you guys were the...
Sure, you could use the term for that.

Funny how stuck you are on the term rather than the issue. I thought you guys were the ones that said words (like the "f" word) were OK to use because they didn't hurt anything. Well, except of course the "n" word which is totally verboten.
who is "you guys"? And what exactly did I say about the "F" word?

Frogman
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12/1/2010 11:08am
txmxer wrote:
That's an empty statement. Got any details to make it meaningful?
SteveS wrote:
If you think about it, if the government stops giving them free money, they either have to get some kind of work for pay or find...
If you think about it, if the government stops giving them free money, they either have to get some kind of work for pay or find someone else to mooch off of.
dcmx326 wrote:
Are you prepared for theft and violent crime to go through the roof? If there was no safety net and laid off people had to fend...
Are you prepared for theft and violent crime to go through the roof?

If there was no safety net and laid off people had to fend for themselves, the murder rate and theft rate would sky rocket.

Desperate people perform desperate actions when trying to feed themselves and their family.
It could be argued that safety nets created the huge populations that would resort to crime when their saftey nets are taken away.
Frogman
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12/1/2010 11:11am
jmar wrote:
The reason the unemployment is so high is because wall street finance screwed the pooch. There are a lot of people out there that are unemployed...
The reason the unemployment is so high is because wall street finance screwed the pooch. There are a lot of people out there that are unemployed by no fault of their own. We are spending almost seven billion a month on Afghanistan, not the mention Iraq, and it's doing nothing other than making a select few even wealthier.

The numbers for extending unemployment is peanuts compared to what we are spending on this worthless war. Cut back the defense budget and take care of our own people.

Have to give you credit for sticking with an agenda.

12/1/2010 11:50am
txmxer wrote:
Not trying to be a dick, but you drew a hardline before and have softened with each post. This guy is typical of most people in...
Not trying to be a dick, but you drew a hardline before and have softened with each post. This guy is typical of most people in general. Life can be shit. It may not be luck, but it's not all just because one person tries harder than the next.
TripleFive wrote:
What hard line did I draw that I'm now contradicting? I would argue that this guy is not typical but rather the exception.
txmxer wrote:
argue based on what? Your hunch? I don't have numbers...if you do, share them and I'll agree.

You say he's typical, I say he's not. Neither of us have numbers....


Again, how have I softened my stance? I never said there shouldn't be unemployment assistance, I just argued that it should be moderated and doled out in a more strict manner.
indy_maico
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12/1/2010 12:07pm
I just want to know the republican mindset that says it is absolutely incorrect to add to the deficit by paying out unemployment benefits but it is absolutely correct to add to the deficit by continuing tax cuts for anyone, let alone people making over $250,000 a year.

Another republican talking point is that they are always against raising taxes.

Then in the next sentence they will tell you that 40% of American households pay no income tax, and that a flat tax is the way forward so that everyone shares the burden.

But, doesn't that just mean that you are actually in favor of a tax increase for the poor and the middle class in order to give a tax cut to those who earn more?

So, you are not really against raising taxes, as long as you only raise them on the poor?



txmxer
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12/1/2010 12:18pm
TripleFive wrote:
What hard line did I draw that I'm now contradicting? I would argue that this guy is not typical but rather the exception.
txmxer wrote:
argue based on what? Your hunch? I don't have numbers...if you do, share them and I'll agree.

TripleFive wrote:
You say he's typical, I say he's not. Neither of us have numbers.... Again, how have I softened my stance? I never said there shouldn't be...
You say he's typical, I say he's not. Neither of us have numbers....


Again, how have I softened my stance? I never said there shouldn't be unemployment assistance, I just argued that it should be moderated and doled out in a more strict manner.
My impression from your post about $480 a week was that you were a hardliner...everyone is a lazy bum that doesn't have a job.

Then CMA tells his story and you tell him he deserves a check. I took it as a change of heart...but, I guess I was making too many assumptions, sorry.

My point about typical is not that the 5% or so terminally unemployed folks are typical, but, that the additional 5% to 15% that are currently unemployed will pretty much have similar stories. They aren't perfect, but they generally did their job and now they don't have a job because the economy went to shit.

As far as just go get a job? Seems like there was a story last summer about some place like Starbucks or McDonalds opening a new store and they had 700 applications???


Of course, SteveS thinks he's a moocher and would have solved his unemployment issue if he worked as hard as SteveS, but that's another story.



txmxer
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12/1/2010 12:21pm
Frogman wrote:
It could be argued that safety nets created the huge populations that would resort to crime when their saftey nets are taken away.
I think there are plenty of statistics that show that as true or not true. Really shouldn't be an argument.

Of course numbers can be twisted, which is unfortunate. For some things, the numbers could be used to get to the truth, make a plan, execute it and move on.
Frogman
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12/1/2010 12:28pm
Frogman wrote:
It could be argued that safety nets created the huge populations that would resort to crime when their saftey nets are taken away.
txmxer wrote:
I think there are plenty of statistics that show that as true or not true. Really shouldn't be an argument. Of course numbers can be twisted...
I think there are plenty of statistics that show that as true or not true. Really shouldn't be an argument.

Of course numbers can be twisted, which is unfortunate. For some things, the numbers could be used to get to the truth, make a plan, execute it and move on.
It was just a counter to a fear mongering comment "give them their money or there will be blood in the streets" There are no hard facts or 1 to 1 relationships that support either statement...that''s why I said "could be argued."

What can't be disputed is that there is an ever-growing dependent population. Most rational people will agree that this is a problem.
txmxer
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12/1/2010 12:35pm
Frogman wrote:
It could be argued that safety nets created the huge populations that would resort to crime when their saftey nets are taken away.
txmxer wrote:
I think there are plenty of statistics that show that as true or not true. Really shouldn't be an argument. Of course numbers can be twisted...
I think there are plenty of statistics that show that as true or not true. Really shouldn't be an argument.

Of course numbers can be twisted, which is unfortunate. For some things, the numbers could be used to get to the truth, make a plan, execute it and move on.
Frogman wrote:
It was just a counter to a fear mongering comment "give them their money or there will be blood in the streets" There are no hard...
It was just a counter to a fear mongering comment "give them their money or there will be blood in the streets" There are no hard facts or 1 to 1 relationships that support either statement...that''s why I said "could be argued."

What can't be disputed is that there is an ever-growing dependent population. Most rational people will agree that this is a problem.
yes and no. I think a lot of these socio-economic issues could be examined pretty accurately, we could see what works and then move on. Part of the issue is that there is no complete solution. We aren't going to have 100% employment. There are a fair amount of people that are virtually unemployable. We need to design our big decisions around the large numbers and deal with the small numbers as needed.

We have the world before social programs and the world after. We should be able to see if anything made any differences. History can teach us a lot...not that we would listen or learn.
jmar
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12/1/2010 12:35pm
jmar wrote:
The reason the unemployment is so high is because wall street finance screwed the pooch. There are a lot of people out there that are unemployed...
The reason the unemployment is so high is because wall street finance screwed the pooch. There are a lot of people out there that are unemployed by no fault of their own. We are spending almost seven billion a month on Afghanistan, not the mention Iraq, and it's doing nothing other than making a select few even wealthier.

The numbers for extending unemployment is peanuts compared to what we are spending on this worthless war. Cut back the defense budget and take care of our own people.

Frogman wrote:
Have to give you credit for sticking with an agenda.

I really wouldn't consider it an agenda, just what I see as using a little logic and common sense.

I really am open to corrections if anything in my post was inaccurate.
Frogman
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12/1/2010 12:49pm
txmxer wrote:
yes and no. I think a lot of these socio-economic issues could be examined pretty accurately, we could see what works and then move on. Part...
yes and no. I think a lot of these socio-economic issues could be examined pretty accurately, we could see what works and then move on. Part of the issue is that there is no complete solution. We aren't going to have 100% employment. There are a fair amount of people that are virtually unemployable. We need to design our big decisions around the large numbers and deal with the small numbers as needed.

We have the world before social programs and the world after. We should be able to see if anything made any differences. History can teach us a lot...not that we would listen or learn.
So what I am getting is that you and I are saying sort of the same thing but you are sort of glass half-full approach and I am sort of half-empty...so I agree..sort of.
Frogman
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12/1/2010 12:51pm
jmar wrote:
I really wouldn't consider it an agenda, just what I see as using a little logic and common sense. I really am open to corrections if...
I really wouldn't consider it an agenda, just what I see as using a little logic and common sense.

I really am open to corrections if anything in my post was inaccurate.
I was mostly jabbing at your "all problems stem from wall street" agenda.

I agree we spend to much on the war and shouldn't be there anyway.
txmxer
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12/1/2010 1:03pm
borg wrote:
Unemployment

I'm undecided. Being self employed, unemployment has never been available to me. It's a tough situation for families.


yes, I think so. And I agreed with your assessment of the R v. D thing in the other thread.

SteveS
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12/1/2010 1:06pm Edited Date/Time 12/1/2010 1:07pm
txmxer wrote:
argue based on what? Your hunch? I don't have numbers...if you do, share them and I'll agree.

TripleFive wrote:
You say he's typical, I say he's not. Neither of us have numbers.... Again, how have I softened my stance? I never said there shouldn't be...
You say he's typical, I say he's not. Neither of us have numbers....


Again, how have I softened my stance? I never said there shouldn't be unemployment assistance, I just argued that it should be moderated and doled out in a more strict manner.
txmxer wrote:
My impression from your post about $480 a week was that you were a hardliner...everyone is a lazy bum that doesn't have a job. Then CMA...
My impression from your post about $480 a week was that you were a hardliner...everyone is a lazy bum that doesn't have a job.

Then CMA tells his story and you tell him he deserves a check. I took it as a change of heart...but, I guess I was making too many assumptions, sorry.

My point about typical is not that the 5% or so terminally unemployed folks are typical, but, that the additional 5% to 15% that are currently unemployed will pretty much have similar stories. They aren't perfect, but they generally did their job and now they don't have a job because the economy went to shit.

As far as just go get a job? Seems like there was a story last summer about some place like Starbucks or McDonalds opening a new store and they had 700 applications???


Of course, SteveS thinks he's a moocher and would have solved his unemployment issue if he worked as hard as SteveS, but that's another story.



You bring up the point there that is the crux of the issue. Is taking extended unemployment benefits (beyond what the insurance your employer paid into) mooching? Or were you somehow "entitled" to have the government pay you longer than what was previously agreed upon?



Are you "entitled" to a job exactly like the one you had before or better? I know there seems to be a philosophy that you don't take a job that's "below" you because you don't want to "hurt" your resume. Personally if I'm looking at a resume and it doesn't show employment for the last 2 or three years of any kind, I'm going to scrutinize that worker more closely than someone whose resume shows that they continued some kind of employment while they were continuing to look for a job to replace the one they left or lost.



As to CMA's story, he worked previously, and he had some period of time to receive unemployment based on his state's plan. If he's been on unemployment for a year now and cannot find another high paying web design job like he had before, it may be time to look for something else. If he's really exhausted every opportunity in that field, what is the better bet? Keep waiting thinking the same field which has had no jobs for 12 months will suddenly have some, or say that there's no future in that field and look at something else that provides a paycheck?

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