Firefighters watch as home burns to the ground

RonSkj
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RonSkj 10/7/2010 10:38am
10/7/2010 10:38am
It obviously costs more than $75 to fight a fire. So the $75 becomes more like an insurance policy. With that being said. If the guy did not pay the $75 but the calls the fire dept. for service. He should be able to get it, but pay full price. He did say he was willing to pay what ever it cost.
tcannon521 10/7/2010 11:05am
10/7/2010 11:05am
Drop your insurance policy on your auto and go out and have a crash the next year. Right after the collision call your insurance agent and ask him to repair your auto. What will he say?

Sad to say, but it is the same thing.

Both are trained pro's.....
txmxer
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txmxer 10/7/2010 11:13am
10/7/2010 11:13am
NV825 wrote:
Almost the same thing happened to my friend before I knew him when he lived in Idaho. His house was literally right on the border in...
Almost the same thing happened to my friend before I knew him when he lived in Idaho. His house was literally right on the border in between two counties and his county was so small that they didn't have a fully staffed fire department. His house caught fire and the neighboring bigger county fire dept was called to the scene, and because his house was just on the other side of the county line they didn't do a thing but stand there and watch it burn to the ground. I don't understand how trained professionals could just stand there and do nothing because of jurisdiction (his fence line was the fucking county line).

What they should have done is put out the fire, then charge the man 15 times the amount of the fee to cover all the costs and even add some profit for them putting it out. There is no reason why a trained professional (firefighter, police, EMT, etc.) should hold out because of money when in the long run it could be resolved with them coming out with even more than the normal fee.
what if he chooses not to pay it? he's not under contract.
dynomike
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dynomike 10/7/2010 11:20am
10/7/2010 11:20am
tcannon521 wrote:
Drop your insurance policy on your auto and go out and have a crash the next year. Right after the collision call your insurance agent and...
Drop your insurance policy on your auto and go out and have a crash the next year. Right after the collision call your insurance agent and ask him to repair your auto. What will he say?

Sad to say, but it is the same thing.

Both are trained pro's.....
He has home owners insurance, Most of his stuff will be taking care of. This is a case of trained emergency personnel in an emergency situation. I would compare more along the lines of a paramedic to a fireman. What would a paramedic do in an emergency situation ?

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RonSkj
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RonSkj 10/7/2010 11:50am
10/7/2010 11:50am
tcannon521 wrote:
Drop your insurance policy on your auto and go out and have a crash the next year. Right after the collision call your insurance agent and...
Drop your insurance policy on your auto and go out and have a crash the next year. Right after the collision call your insurance agent and ask him to repair your auto. What will he say?

Sad to say, but it is the same thing.

Both are trained pro's.....
If you don't have the insurance policy. The body shop will still fix your car. You'll just have to pay full price.
I see the $75 more as an insurance type payment and the fire dept. as the body shop. (if that make any sense)
NV825
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NV825 10/7/2010 11:59am
10/7/2010 11:59am
NV825 wrote:
Almost the same thing happened to my friend before I knew him when he lived in Idaho. His house was literally right on the border in...
Almost the same thing happened to my friend before I knew him when he lived in Idaho. His house was literally right on the border in between two counties and his county was so small that they didn't have a fully staffed fire department. His house caught fire and the neighboring bigger county fire dept was called to the scene, and because his house was just on the other side of the county line they didn't do a thing but stand there and watch it burn to the ground. I don't understand how trained professionals could just stand there and do nothing because of jurisdiction (his fence line was the fucking county line).

What they should have done is put out the fire, then charge the man 15 times the amount of the fee to cover all the costs and even add some profit for them putting it out. There is no reason why a trained professional (firefighter, police, EMT, etc.) should hold out because of money when in the long run it could be resolved with them coming out with even more than the normal fee.
txmxer wrote:
what if he chooses not to pay it? he's not under contract.
Three Elements of a Verbal Contract (via http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/contract/verbal.html)

In order to be considered valid, a verbal contract must contain three elements: offer, acceptance, and consideration.

• Offer: The person making the offer in a verbal contract must communicate their intent to enter into a contract. A verbal contract is not considered valid if all parties do not agree to the terms of the offer. Also, verbal contracts are only valid for a specified period of time and not indefinitely.

(The I will pay you anything it costs to put out this fire which was caught on audio recording sounds like an offer.)

• Acceptance: A verbal contract is not valid until the offer is accepted. The acceptance of a verbal contract occurs when the person to whom the contract is offered voluntarily indicates agreement to its terms and conditions.

(The fire chief saying ok we'll put it out)

• Consideration: In addition to an offer and acceptance, verbal contracts must contain consideration. This means that each side must give the other something of value for the agreement to be binding. In most verbal contracts, this is an exchange of money, such as a down payment. However, in some cases, it is not money but a promise that is exchanged.

(In this case a promise would have been exchanged, and I can guarantee that the homeowner and the fire chief weren't alone without any witnesses around to hear/see the promise being made.)

I am amazed that people are defending the fire dept for standing there and watching a whole families possessions and 3 animals burn to ash. Does a Doctor refuse a patient without health insurance? If a paramedic or RN witnesses a horrific accident happen right in front of them do they just keep driving like nothing happened? It's called human decency and it should come first with politics after.
Stretch67 10/7/2010 12:31pm
10/7/2010 12:31pm
I live in an unincorporated area (not in city limits), therefore I don't pay any city taxes, but I pay much higher Ins. premiums due to the fact that the only Fire department is a county volunteer force.

I wouldn't be surprised if his Ins. doesn't or will require him to pay any fee like this.
The Ins. industry will be all over this you can guarantee it.


I keep two fire extinguishers in the kitchen and two more in the garage.
SteveS
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SteveS 10/7/2010 1:06pm
10/7/2010 1:06pm
txmxer wrote:
to be clear, you think the fire department should operate for free?
It's the government. They have limitless ability to do everything for everybody.
captmoto
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captmoto 10/7/2010 2:22pm
10/7/2010 2:22pm
California unions don't hold anyone hostage. We are forbidden by law from any job actions that threaten public safety. Nobody I know would strike, slowdown or not act . It would,be stupid because while I'm at work, my family is being protected by someone else. Now with brown outs and short staffing in a lot of departments, your "hostage" statement sounds like bullshit. You call 911 you get a response. The Forest Service doesn't really provide structure fire services but CalFire and counties and cities do. Calfire covers all state lands not otherwise covered. Not only that but initial actions zones guarantee coverage with fires being attacked by the first arriving companies. The "who owns it gets' decided after initial attack and then the jurisdictional agency takes responsibility for suppression and it's costs. The fire department budgets come from property tax revenues, sales taxes and special districts and assessments. Now a very rural community or occupant may get a delay for travel time but arriving units will act. It sounds like there is no system in place like that in Tennessee, at least not at a state level to provide fire protection.
txmxer
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txmxer 10/7/2010 2:59pm
10/7/2010 2:59pm
NV825 wrote:
Three Elements of a Verbal Contract (via [url=http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/contract/verbal.html]http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/contract/verbal.html[/url]) In order to be considered valid, a verbal contract must contain three elements: offer, acceptance, and consideration. •...
Three Elements of a Verbal Contract (via http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/contract/verbal.html)

In order to be considered valid, a verbal contract must contain three elements: offer, acceptance, and consideration.

• Offer: The person making the offer in a verbal contract must communicate their intent to enter into a contract. A verbal contract is not considered valid if all parties do not agree to the terms of the offer. Also, verbal contracts are only valid for a specified period of time and not indefinitely.

(The I will pay you anything it costs to put out this fire which was caught on audio recording sounds like an offer.)

• Acceptance: A verbal contract is not valid until the offer is accepted. The acceptance of a verbal contract occurs when the person to whom the contract is offered voluntarily indicates agreement to its terms and conditions.

(The fire chief saying ok we'll put it out)

• Consideration: In addition to an offer and acceptance, verbal contracts must contain consideration. This means that each side must give the other something of value for the agreement to be binding. In most verbal contracts, this is an exchange of money, such as a down payment. However, in some cases, it is not money but a promise that is exchanged.

(In this case a promise would have been exchanged, and I can guarantee that the homeowner and the fire chief weren't alone without any witnesses around to hear/see the promise being made.)

I am amazed that people are defending the fire dept for standing there and watching a whole families possessions and 3 animals burn to ash. Does a Doctor refuse a patient without health insurance? If a paramedic or RN witnesses a horrific accident happen right in front of them do they just keep driving like nothing happened? It's called human decency and it should come first with politics after.
this was discussed in one of the articles linked previously. Contract agreed to under duress are unenforceable.

Pretty sure this one would fall into that category.

Since this guy didn't pay for the coverage, he basically called up a random fire department and expected them to show up and then gets mad when they don't.

I know this situation sucks ass, but people need to start taking responsibility and ownership of and for themselves.
jmar
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jmar 10/7/2010 4:37pm
10/7/2010 4:37pm
NV825 wrote:
Three Elements of a Verbal Contract (via [url=http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/contract/verbal.html]http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/contract/verbal.html[/url]) In order to be considered valid, a verbal contract must contain three elements: offer, acceptance, and consideration. •...
Three Elements of a Verbal Contract (via http://www.onlinelawyersource.com/contract/verbal.html)

In order to be considered valid, a verbal contract must contain three elements: offer, acceptance, and consideration.

• Offer: The person making the offer in a verbal contract must communicate their intent to enter into a contract. A verbal contract is not considered valid if all parties do not agree to the terms of the offer. Also, verbal contracts are only valid for a specified period of time and not indefinitely.

(The I will pay you anything it costs to put out this fire which was caught on audio recording sounds like an offer.)

• Acceptance: A verbal contract is not valid until the offer is accepted. The acceptance of a verbal contract occurs when the person to whom the contract is offered voluntarily indicates agreement to its terms and conditions.

(The fire chief saying ok we'll put it out)

• Consideration: In addition to an offer and acceptance, verbal contracts must contain consideration. This means that each side must give the other something of value for the agreement to be binding. In most verbal contracts, this is an exchange of money, such as a down payment. However, in some cases, it is not money but a promise that is exchanged.

(In this case a promise would have been exchanged, and I can guarantee that the homeowner and the fire chief weren't alone without any witnesses around to hear/see the promise being made.)

I am amazed that people are defending the fire dept for standing there and watching a whole families possessions and 3 animals burn to ash. Does a Doctor refuse a patient without health insurance? If a paramedic or RN witnesses a horrific accident happen right in front of them do they just keep driving like nothing happened? It's called human decency and it should come first with politics after.
txmxer wrote:
this was discussed in one of the articles linked previously. Contract agreed to under duress are unenforceable. Pretty sure this one would fall into that category...
this was discussed in one of the articles linked previously. Contract agreed to under duress are unenforceable.

Pretty sure this one would fall into that category.

Since this guy didn't pay for the coverage, he basically called up a random fire department and expected them to show up and then gets mad when they don't.

I know this situation sucks ass, but people need to start taking responsibility and ownership of and for themselves.
But because the "volunteer" fire department, decided to not show, for the reason of non payment, another home caught on fire.


Do people really want some fire chief, from a volunteer fire department, be the person on point to make decisions like this?

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