Yamaha can't buy a start ... ??

felpro
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felpro
Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 12:34am
Re the 2010 YZ450 . . . has it been seen at the front of the pack rounding the first turn ? Or is it just a coincidence that the better starters have had other issues since signing up to ride the twisted cylinder ??

(I apologise if this subject has been covered before on this forum....)
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PicardsFacepalm 10/2/2010 6:31pm
10/2/2010 6:31pm
Contrary to what people on message boards think, it's the rider more than the bike. Do you think that Honda installed a NOS button on Shorty's bike, or do think it's Shorty?
purpleNurple
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purpleNurple 10/2/2010 6:32pm
10/2/2010 6:32pm
clearly NOS right......?
Tbill
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Tbill 10/2/2010 6:33pm
10/2/2010 6:33pm
No, traction control. It's a secret device, Only Honda has it. Yamaha spent so much money on Stewart they couldn't afford the R & D.
felpro
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felpro 10/2/2010 6:43pm
10/2/2010 6:43pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2010 11:03pm
Motocross has always been the rider more than the bike ... but .... the riders, at least the better ones are very close in skills and abilities. Some are better than others on certain terrains and/or aspects of racing ..ie sand vs hard pack ..SX v's MX ... whoops /corners ... and some are better starters.

All that is a given. But...

The Yamaha is heavier. It may turn well due to where the weight is placed but off the line ...??

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Chris_ONeal
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Chris_ONeal 10/2/2010 6:45pm
10/2/2010 6:45pm
I notice Short's holeshot device is about 2 inches lower than everyone else's at MXDN.
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mjskier 10/2/2010 6:55pm
10/2/2010 6:55pm
Chris_ONeal wrote:
I notice Short's holeshot device is about 2 inches lower than everyone else's at MXDN.
I knew it. Size does matter!
lostboy819 10/2/2010 7:01pm
10/2/2010 7:01pm
felpro wrote:
Motocross has always been the rider more than the bike ... but .... the riders, at least the better ones are very close in skills and...
Motocross has always been the rider more than the bike ... but .... the riders, at least the better ones are very close in skills and abilities. Some are better than others on certain terrains and/or aspects of racing ..ie sand vs hard pack ..SX v's MX ... whoops /corners ... and some are better starters.

All that is a given. But...

The Yamaha is heavier. It may turn well due to where the weight is placed but off the line ...??
Give it up! There is nothing wrong with the YZ450 on the starts no matter how bad that you want there to be a problem it is just fine.
iudi2006 10/2/2010 7:03pm
10/2/2010 7:03pm
Ryan Sipes wouldn't agree. He got a holeshot this year. I think it's not that the bike can;t,it's just the riders on the YZ's arent that good of starters this year.
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tyler durden 10/2/2010 7:43pm
10/2/2010 7:43pm
Im glad Im not the only one that noticed.

Its pretty obvious once you notice; I dont think its just the riders nor is this the result of any subconscious bias. They cant get a start. One or two doesnt count.

Im apt to say that you wont see Stewart on Yamahas next year if he can help it as a result.
PicardsFacepalm 10/2/2010 8:57pm
10/2/2010 8:57pm
felpro wrote:
Motocross has always been the rider more than the bike ... but .... the riders, at least the better ones are very close in skills and...
Motocross has always been the rider more than the bike ... but .... the riders, at least the better ones are very close in skills and abilities. Some are better than others on certain terrains and/or aspects of racing ..ie sand vs hard pack ..SX v's MX ... whoops /corners ... and some are better starters.

All that is a given. But...

The Yamaha is heavier. It may turn well due to where the weight is placed but off the line ...??
Dude. I don't think you understand. Those bikes are all good on the starting line, but since you're slow... Here's MotocycleUSA.com's 2010 450 holeshot test:


According to this, a Kawasaki should NEVER get a holeshot and KTM should get EVERY long start. It's all about who can get the power to the ground without spinning too much.
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tyler durden 10/2/2010 9:49pm
10/2/2010 9:49pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2010 10:16pm
That graph is completely irrelevant. You know that. stock bikes suspension tires, etc.



the stats are there. I think it has very little to do with the rider in this case. There are too many variables to supercede the rider variable. I tend to think its not the power, but the 60 feet or so out of the hole. They're getting squeezed out. Why? weight bias? clutch design(I understand this is probable?)? torque curve? suspension design?



Thats my opinion. We will see next year.



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fader418 10/2/2010 10:29pm
10/2/2010 10:29pm
Put Mike Alessi on a 450 yamaha and he will holeshot like he used too
lostboy819 10/2/2010 11:01pm
10/2/2010 11:01pm Edited Date/Time 10/3/2010 1:13am
fader418 wrote:
Put Mike Alessi on a 450 yamaha and he will holeshot like he used too
Yep Alessi would have no problem on the YZ450,and the reason you didnt see many YZ450s getting the holeshot during the nationals is because of the top Yamaha riders one was too busy with his TV show, One was busy ending his MX career doing a backflip, One was too busy throwing metal mulisha wannabe gangster signs so that he hurt his shoulder and one of them was either in jail or just didnt feel like racing.Put Short or Alessi on a Yamaha and not only will they get holeshots but they will both be at races doing what a racer does.
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fader418 10/2/2010 11:38pm
10/2/2010 11:38pm
Lostboy819 I agree 100%
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fader418 10/2/2010 11:53pm
10/2/2010 11:53pm
Lostboy819 I agree 100%
PicardsFacepalm 10/3/2010 2:07pm
10/3/2010 2:07pm
tyler durden wrote:
That graph is completely irrelevant. You know that. stock bikes suspension tires, etc. the stats are there. I think it has very little to do with...
That graph is completely irrelevant. You know that. stock bikes suspension tires, etc.



the stats are there. I think it has very little to do with the rider in this case. There are too many variables to supercede the rider variable. I tend to think its not the power, but the 60 feet or so out of the hole. They're getting squeezed out. Why? weight bias? clutch design(I understand this is probable?)? torque curve? suspension design?



Thats my opinion. We will see next year.



Your opinion is that some magical bike gets magically more holeshots.

So your opinion is that Yamaha is the least magical bike. What in your opinion is the most magical bike?

You've been eating too much soap for an imaginary friend. You are Jack's shitty opinion.
couchdriver412 10/3/2010 10:17pm
10/3/2010 10:17pm
lostboy819 wrote:
Yep Alessi would have no problem on the YZ450,and the reason you didnt see many YZ450s getting the holeshot during the nationals is because of the...
Yep Alessi would have no problem on the YZ450,and the reason you didnt see many YZ450s getting the holeshot during the nationals is because of the top Yamaha riders one was too busy with his TV show, One was busy ending his MX career doing a backflip, One was too busy throwing metal mulisha wannabe gangster signs so that he hurt his shoulder and one of them was either in jail or just didnt feel like racing.Put Short or Alessi on a Yamaha and not only will they get holeshots but they will both be at races doing what a racer does.
Dang, Yamaha knows how to pick em..... No wonder they shut down their factory team.
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Highsider 10/4/2010 4:49am
10/4/2010 4:49am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2010 4:50am
Am I dreaming, or didn't Brayton holeshot one moto this year?
Clear this up for me, as if I can stop you!

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kw859
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kw859 10/4/2010 11:01am
10/4/2010 11:01am
shoot, i get holeshoots all the time on mine...5 out of 6 at Lorretas even. its not the bike.
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adamdf 10/4/2010 11:03am
10/4/2010 11:03am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2010 11:04am
felpro wrote:
Re the 2010 YZ450 . . . has it been seen at the front of the pack rounding the first turn ? Or is it just...
Re the 2010 YZ450 . . . has it been seen at the front of the pack rounding the first turn ? Or is it just a coincidence that the better starters have had other issues since signing up to ride the twisted cylinder ??

(I apologise if this subject has been covered before on this forum....)
Yamaha just didnt have the right rider to get the start. Although Bubba got a decent start in his one moto, ok lets not go there again
peelout719
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peelout719 10/4/2010 11:12am
10/4/2010 11:12am
PicardsFacepalm wrote:
Dude. I don't think you understand. Those bikes are all good on the starting line, but since you're slow... Here's MotocycleUSA.com's 2010 450 holeshot test: [img]http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/images/10_450MX_holeshot.gif[/img]...
Dude. I don't think you understand. Those bikes are all good on the starting line, but since you're slow... Here's MotocycleUSA.com's 2010 450 holeshot test:


According to this, a Kawasaki should NEVER get a holeshot and KTM should get EVERY long start. It's all about who can get the power to the ground without spinning too much.
no offense to you at all, but that's the dumbest damn graph i've ever seen.

i have an 07 honda 450 and i still pull every start that i line up for in the local pro class. long start straight or short start straight. staying in the front is a different story for me because of endurance... but that doesn't mean my bike is the best starting bike, it's my reaction time and shifting points.

my .02

blabber will be just fine off the start, just like he was at the 2 supercross races he raced this year.
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GuyB 10/4/2010 11:17am
10/4/2010 11:17am
This thread is equipped with a pink powerband...the weakest of the bunch.
fader418
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fader418 10/4/2010 12:10pm
10/4/2010 12:10pm
No GuyB this is october pink is the BEST!
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Torco1 10/4/2010 12:17pm
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offspring22 10/4/2010 12:17pm
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Jujji 10/4/2010 12:29pm
10/4/2010 12:29pm
I don't think it has anything to with the bike, DP in the GP's has had a few of hole shoots over in europe but the guys over here are just not killing the starts like the few of the others who have been on other brands but i don't think the bike has anything to do with it. but it is funny how with out Yamaha rig in the pits the brand just seems to be missing the spot light totally in both 450 and 250.
PicardsFacepalm 10/4/2010 1:50pm
10/4/2010 1:50pm
PicardsFacepalm wrote:
Dude. I don't think you understand. Those bikes are all good on the starting line, but since you're slow... Here's MotocycleUSA.com's 2010 450 holeshot test: [img]http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/images/10_450MX_holeshot.gif[/img]...
Dude. I don't think you understand. Those bikes are all good on the starting line, but since you're slow... Here's MotocycleUSA.com's 2010 450 holeshot test:


According to this, a Kawasaki should NEVER get a holeshot and KTM should get EVERY long start. It's all about who can get the power to the ground without spinning too much.
peelout719 wrote:
no offense to you at all, but that's the dumbest damn graph i've ever seen. i have an 07 honda 450 and i still pull every...
no offense to you at all, but that's the dumbest damn graph i've ever seen.

i have an 07 honda 450 and i still pull every start that i line up for in the local pro class. long start straight or short start straight. staying in the front is a different story for me because of endurance... but that doesn't mean my bike is the best starting bike, it's my reaction time and shifting points.

my .02

blabber will be just fine off the start, just like he was at the 2 supercross races he raced this year.
No offense to you at all, but that was the dumbest response I've ever seen.

Did you read my post and the context it was directed? The original poster started with babble about Yamaha not getting holeshots. I responded with a red-herring graph. Reread my last sentence.
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adamdf 10/4/2010 2:04pm
10/4/2010 2:04pm Edited Date/Time 10/4/2010 2:05pm
Brand has nothing to do with the starts, case closed, thread to garbage, next in line please
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Cody24 10/4/2010 2:23pm
10/4/2010 2:23pm
There is two sides to that story... If a bike doesn't make enough power, it wont be as competitive. Just ask Alessi or Cairoli. I've seen dyno's and ridden the bike, it doesn't make as much power as other brands. That being said, it doesn't mean it can't holeshot.
muGz.147 10/4/2010 2:52pm
10/4/2010 2:52pm
Highsider wrote:
Am I dreaming, or didn't Brayton holeshot one moto this year?
Clear this up for me, as if I can stop you!
I thought so too...towards the end of the summer when he was fully healthy. If not he was close.

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