Knee injury question, need some input please...

Mike_909
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Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 10:31pm
My 13 year old daughter is pretty serious about Volleyball and typically plays 4-5 times a week. She's advanced and also plays Cape coast which is at the highest level you can be at for her age. Her team does extremely well and has been standing out winning "gold" at the state wide events every few weekends.
Recently, she started having pains in her right knee. She mentioned it several times over the past weeks but it is now at a point that it's nearly impossible for her to walk. She does not recall doing anything to it that may have started the pain.

She says the pain goes from the center of her kneecap all the way down to her foot on the outside of her leg. When she feels it, she crys and can not hide the pain.

I just wanted to know if anybody had any input of what type of injury this would appear to be from volleyball type activity. We have an MRI scheduled tomorrow but I wanted to get a head start with peoples opinions.
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CamP
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3/12/2008 6:16pm
It's probably just growing pains but you should get her checked out.
Camp332
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3/12/2008 6:17pm
Shin splints? I know they run down the front of your lower leg, and can be extremely painful. My 2 cents can be way off here.
flarider
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3/12/2008 6:19pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:22pm
[quote="camp332":whk6zemt]Shin splints? I know they run down the front of your lower leg, and can be extremely painful. My 2 cents can be way off here.[/quote:whk6zemt]
Exactly what I was thinking, shin splints

Go to a SPORTS orthopedic
Mike_909
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3/12/2008 6:40pm
Thanks for the replys so quick!

Dave, I could not remember but, was it you that had a similar problem with your daughter?


Anyway, I'm off to read about shin splints...thanks again.

The Shop

flarider
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3/12/2008 6:42pm
No, not mine
But research it and see if it fits, and then go to a doctor
Mike_909
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3/12/2008 6:52pm
I mentioned this to my wife who's typically pretty good at diagnosing this stuff.

She told me to mention that the right side of her right knee is indeed swollen and, unlike shin splints, her pain never eases.
txmxer
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3/12/2008 6:58pm
I doubt an MRI will tell you anything other than it's not in the knee joint. Location of pain can be pretty misleading and that sounds like the case here based on the running down the outside of the leg.

Swelling may actually be incidental for any number of reasons (such as pain causing her to favor and use the leg awkwardly).

Hope they can nail it down...let us know what you find out.
CamP
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3/12/2008 7:10pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:22pm
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?top ... urn_link=0

"Anterior knee pain is common in adolescents. In many cases, an exhaustive investigation of all the conditions listed above runs into one dead end after another. We are left with the unsatisfactory diagnosis of adolescent anterior knee pain. It is unsatisfactory because the specific reason for the pain remains unknown. My scientific hunch is that the muscles are growing faster than they can coordinate. Fortunately, the condition gradually resolves as the adolescent reaches maturity. In the meantime, the parent understandably looks for someone who will provide a more rapid cure."
3/12/2008 7:21pm
How did you get an MRI scheduled without seeing a doctor?
Mike_909
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3/12/2008 8:13pm
I dunno! lol The wifes pretty crafty.
3/12/2008 8:16pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:22pm
With only knowing what you have described... I re read your post, if the swelling is lateral and posterior could be the proximal head of the fibula has "dislocated" and the inter osseous membrane is torn. That should be visible on a standard radiographic series.
CamP
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3/13/2008 9:15am
Based on her age and the fact that she never did anything to injure the knee, I still think it's the growing pains that are common with 13 year olds' knees. Don't be surprised when the MRI shows no pathology. If she is swelling, an anti-inflamatory like Ibuprofen will help in combination with Rest, Ice, Compression and Elevation. That is usually the best course of action. I'd recommend that she take a couple of months off from her sports.
Mike_909
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3/13/2008 10:02am
I don't know. It's hard to imagine it being as simple as growing pains. My 1st daughter went through the same events and never had any problems. When a 13 year old becomes one of the top few in the school, the coaches start pushing the cape coast events because scouts go there to watch the state tourneys. Scholarships come out of that so, asking her to take a break isn't an option unless it's forced medically.

The MRI is done so we'll see what the doc determines once he gets it back from them. Thanks for the input.
CamP
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3/13/2008 10:16am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:22pm
[quote="Mike_909":1wzauih0]Scholarships come out of that so, asking her to take a break isn't an option unless it's forced medically.[/quote:1wzauih0]

This will probably resolve itself within a few months if she takes some time off. A few months off now won't affect her ability to get a scholarship four years from now. Michael Jordon didn't even make the varsity basketball team until his junior year of high school. Your daughter is still in junior high so talk of college scholarships seems a bit premature.
Mike_909
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3/13/2008 1:34pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:22pm
Although I agreed with most of what you said a year ago, it's a little bit tricky these days.

My older daughter was a "star" player in a School that was only a JR High when she started but, added a grade each year to make it a High School. They were in 10th grade playing all the top Schools seniors. So, even though a few of them were incredible for their age, they got smoked in the state tourneys playing seniors and went un-noticed. I figured that the stats spoke for themselves but apparently not. Her stats were in the upper 97% percentile for this State.

If you get stuck on a bad team, your chances go to shit. This area is volatile due to the Space program and, it's easily possible that several or all of the top players on the younger daughter’s team could be gone next year forcing her to play on a rookie team. The more time you have on a good solid team, the better the odds of going somewhere with it and getting noticed. Right now, her team is almost dominating this States best School.

Matter of fact, here's what they do to these girls nowadays. Last week when the knee problems starting peaking, she "had" to be at practice injured or not or, she'd be forced to sit out the next three games. While she was there, the assistant coach made her do 200 crunches with her bad knee. I learned of this a few minutes ago when I picked her up at School. This weekend, there is a tourney in Tampa and were trying to figure out how to make her stay home without penalty. Georgia is next week.......

Although I get pissed about these rules and I'm certainly not one of those parents that would bank on any Scholarship, it's what she wants to do and she's quite focused on that goal.
CamP
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3/13/2008 1:44pm
Well, it looks like there is pressure there to perform, regardless of what's right for your daughter's health. That's too bad. She's more than likely going to have to take a break from her sports for the short term. Injecting with cortisone or even worse yet, cutting on her knee, isn't going to benefit her in the long run.
az2u
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3/13/2008 2:05pm
The assistant coach needs to be fired. Mike if your daughter ends up needing surgery make sure you find someone who is highly regarded. Same thing for the physical therapist. Where are you located in Florida?
Mike_909
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3/13/2008 2:35pm
I'm East Central Florida.

Yea, I was quite pissed when I found out about her having to do crunches when she was only there to sit and watch/support the team since she was hurt. The sick part is, this is a paid program and cost 2G's. We can't decide if it's good for the kids or bad. They get punished if late, or miss a game.

I went through it with my older daughter and remember the same feelings but, she went on to dual enroll and got her associates with her high school diploma and is now working on her bachelors as a full time student at UCF. She just turned 19 and she's going to be a dentist.

The sports and School rules were very strict but it seemed to help the older one so, I guess I'll let it go and hope they know what they are doing. lol
BobbyM (MD)
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3/13/2008 5:43pm
get her to a doc asap
jmc2
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3/13/2008 9:09pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:22pm
[quote="WORCSRACER":3m13npw8]With only knowing what you have described... I re read your post, if the swelling is lateral and posterior could be the proximal head of the fibula has "dislocated" and the inter osseous membrane is torn. That should be visible on a standard radiographic series.[/quote:3m13npw8]

This is actually a good possiblity with the symptoms described.
Agreed with others have her checked by a orthopedic physician.
Mike_909
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3/13/2008 10:44pm
Ok, here's an update as of this evening.

The MRI is done and we are going to try to change their plans tomorrow and pick up the results and hand deliver them to the doc to get an opinion before the long trip to Tampa.

She now has bruising on the outside of her kneecap. It's not crazy but is purple in color and is in multiple spots hovering around the outside of the kneecap closer to the outside of her leg.

Thanks a ton for the feedback guys. I do appreciate it a lot.
Mike_909
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3/23/2008 3:02pm
Just to update,


The MRI came back and our regular doc didn't see any problems. We have made an appointment with a specialist to confirm this. She seems better for sure so hopefully, it will be fine.


Thanks for the input and ideas!
az2u
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3/23/2008 5:15pm
Mike many knee problems can be traced to either the ankel or hips/glutes. A good physical therapist will perform several tests to see if he/she can spot some abnormalities in the posterior kinetic chain.
CamP
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3/23/2008 5:22pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:26pm
[quote="Mike_909":2bgld6gr]Just to update,


The MRI came back and our regular doc didn't see any problems. We have made an appointment with a specialist to confirm this. She seems better for sure so hopefully, it will be fine.


Thanks for the input and ideas![/quote:2bgld6gr]

You're welcome. lol

Glad to hear it's old fashioned growing pains.
Knobbyjake
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3/24/2008 6:54am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:26pm
Ask your doc about Osgood Schlater disease. My daughter has it in her right knee, it's pretty much growing pains. She's 15 and 6' 1" and they said her knee isn't growing in proportion to the rest of her body but that it will catch up. Good luck. Jack
Mike_909
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3/31/2008 6:46pm
I'll look into Osgood Schlater disease, thanks. Now, they have her in therapy for 9 visits. The bruising comes and goes and to her, it's getting worse. I'm still unsure and looking to get definitive answers.
CamP
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3/31/2008 7:01pm
Time off is the cure. She should avoid any activity that hurts for a few months.
3/31/2008 8:54pm
If there is real, visible bruising and she isn't having external trauma to account for such bruising, then I think she needs further evaluation...more than a random MRI.

On the other hand, if she is on a volleyball team and has visible bruising around her knees and lower legs, and her knees hurt, I think I'd look into sadistic coaching...do you remember the film they had of the Japanese and Korean National teams back in the 70's firing volleyballs from up high making these women repeatedly dive at the ground for hours?
andymoto
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3/31/2008 9:15pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:30pm
[quote="CamP":1s00gxtj]Time off is the cure. She should avoid any activity that hurts for a few months.[/quote:1s00gxtj]

Cam's right; she need time off her knees since nothing definitive has been diagnosed yet, but I would even go for a second opinion if your insurance coverage allows it for peace of mind and maybe see if she can have some professional PT.

The rest and pressure probably will do a world of good as Cam says even though it's tough watching from the sidelines, especially at her age.

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