The 'NOT SO AMATEUR'-Amateur Nationals

Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 2:43am
I was in Dallas last week for business and decided to stay over and attend the Lake Whitney Spring Classic. I wanted to get a view of the Amateur Scene and since I don't have any kids I joined up with a buddy of mine who's son was racing. My friend is a fairly wealthy guy, big Motorhome, awesome bikes for his son and all of the latest gear etc. etc. etc. What shocked the hell out of me is that there is nothing AMATEUR about this amateur racing. First of all I spent a great deal of time walking the pits and talking to the various teams, mechanics and parents just because I was so freaking floored by the spectacle.

I am sure most of you know this but what I found out is a lot of these "Amateurs" get paid big money, have their own mechanics, are pampered beyond belief and are basically factory riders are a slightly smaller scale. They don't wash bikes, they don't fix their own meals, they do nothing but ride. I know they train hard and are very dedicated but if you are a true amateur in this sport you have to compete with some pretty big budgets in order to get noticed. GOOD LUCK.

Check the Top 5 in every class and you will more than likely find a "Factory Amateur" in the top 3 of each class.

Kawasaki had 2 Big Rigs, Mechanics, Managers, staff etc all over the place
KTM had 1 Big Rig, and 3 smaller rigs etc...
Honda/Honda of Houston had 2 big Rigs...
Yamaha had 2 big rigs etc...
Suzuki was the only Manufacturer without a big rig, but their riders did very well. (I might have missed their rig)

I miss the Ford Econoline Van days when the sport was pure and the playing field was fairly level.
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YZmom
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3/18/2008 2:42pm
Amen. I totally agree
Sondra
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3/18/2008 2:52pm
Sad part is a lot of these parents hock their life, house whatever to get that big motorhome, bikes, go on the road etc. And it's understandable that some of these riders have factory backing, if you are someone like Blake Baggett, Travis Baker, these are your Pros of tomorrow, the factories invest in them so they will race their bikes when they turn pro.

You need the factory backing cause we sure as hell know that the Pro Purse isn't there right ?? I spoke to Rick Mace the other day, Kyle Mace's dad, he just turned 50 and he said that he just can't afford to pay for Kyle to drive all over the US to race the nationals, he has to think of him and his wife's retirement. Breaks my heart Kyle is good and fast and needs help, but looks like he will go back to racing local and get a job, shame with someone who has talent and can make the show at both SX and Outdoor.

S
3/18/2008 2:54pm
Yep its a very very big $$$ thing now. If you don't have at least two bikes. mod and stock, Either a big motorhome with tandem axle Wells or a 48' toyhaller with 10' shop with all the goodies fahgetaboutit.

My Dad was there and is at Oakhill this week helping out the kid my brother wrenches for because my brother couldn't get a full month of work off. My dad is a great wrench himself and retired so he enjoys helping out. They have a huge toyhauller with everything including a welder. Took down i believe 5 bikes. Two 112 supermini's, A 125 and two CRF 250's. In Order to run that life you have to make big $$$ to start then find a way to make it a tax write off.

Years ago they said to make a big bank account small was to get a cocaine habbit. Now its have a kid with potential to be a top motocrosser. Mortage the piss outta the house and chase the dream.
Moto East Mag
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3/18/2008 2:55pm
It's a quandary because you want the factories showing an interest in amateur racing and investing in it, but I agree the amateur flavor gets lost when the kids are racing for sponsors and getting paid. It seems to be totally unregulated and maybe a little out of control. Many youth sports have strict kinds of rules about these things.
And remember all that stuff won't help you twist the throttle harder. There will always be the kid that shows up on a two year old bike in a pickup and smokes everybody, but I guess that is becoming a dying breed.
It's interesting to me to be parked in the pits at a local race and have a 60 foot motorhome roll in and a nine year old kid step out in brand new gear and walk up to his line of gleaming new bikes. The kid's pit bikes cost more than my two year old two stroke motocrosser. They deploy more gear than a Ranger special unit descending into Baghdad.
Even worse is seeing a kid sitting there crying after his moto because of all the pressure.
I don't have anything against it. But the perspective can get lost when a kid has all that stuff. It just seems like it would take the fun out of it, but looking at some fast local kids, it's not about fun. For others, it is about fun still, and they are the ones that are really winning.
Josh Hill said in TWMX that his parents were $400k in debt from racing. That's hitting on half a million to get where Josh got. Something is weird about that.

The Shop

Chili
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3/18/2008 3:33pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote="Sondra":2tkw2kzl]You need the factory backing cause we sure as hell know that the Pro Purse isn't there right ?? I spoke to Rick Mace the other day, Kyle Mace's dad, he just turned 50 and he said that he just can't afford to pay for Kyle to drive all over the US to race the nationals, he has to think of him and his wife's retirement. Breaks my heart Kyle is good and fast and needs help, but looks like he will go back to racing local and get a job, shame with someone who has talent and can make the show at both SX and Outdoor.

S[/quote:2tkw2kzl]

Perhaps if the Factory Amateur teams didn't exist they could afford to provide support for the Pro's on the bubble like Mace when they get to the bigs.
3/18/2008 3:46pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote:1dlcgl5t]Perhaps if the Factory Amateur teams didn't exist they could afford to provide support for the Pro's on the bubble like Mace when they get to the bigs[/quote:1dlcgl5t]

But there in is the quandry. Do you support a kid like Kyle Mace, who in all honestly, is very unlikely to ever win a championship or do you plan for the future and give that money and resources to a kid like Bagget, Wharton, Barcia, insert your fast AM here.....

I personally hate to see guys with 2 digit numbers struggle with bikes and support when AM kids who have never even won a title get more support. However, Dungey, Canard, Hill, Villipoto, Stroupe and Izzi, alt ect. are making a great case for supporting the STUD amateurs as the way to go. It has become the "farm system" for the factories. Unfortuantely the biproduct is a lot of disappointed and sometimes bankrupt families.
3/18/2008 3:48pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
Chilli, that AND heck ya bring all the big stuff to these "amatuer" races, but not for one or two riders, show up and help all the ones on your brands, like they do now, but not just one or three riders specifically. Add the money saved to bigger contingency money to the A classes and PRo am classes. Let the B and C classes earn it by acheiving that rank instead of hiding from it.

much better system could be in place but the OEM's have to do it, since no rules will make it happen.

this whole part of the mx world has gotten out of hand. Maybe you should have to be 18 to be pro with a high school diploma?
3/18/2008 4:03pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
Seems to me if someone is paying you to ride or supporting you to ride in a material way you are no longer an amateur. Why do we have a different standard in MX than we do for college and high school sports? If you gave a kid free clothes, athletic gear, paid his parents and/or placed money in a trust fund for them, there is not a high school or college sanctioning body in America in which this is legal and that would let you retain your amateur status. Get over it, there is no "amateur" racing anymore
Sondra
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3/18/2008 4:15pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote="wardy":3vm7gxq5]Chilli, that AND heck ya bring all the big stuff to these "amatuer" races, but not for one or two riders, show up and help all the ones on your brands, like they do now, but not just one or three riders specifically. Add the money saved to bigger contingency money to the A classes and PRo am classes. Let the B and C classes earn it by acheiving that rank instead of hiding from it.

much better system could be in place but the OEM's have to do it, since no rules will make it happen.

this whole part of the mx world has gotten out of hand. Maybe you should have to be 18 to be pro with a high school diploma?[/quote:3vm7gxq5]

Yamaha doesn't pay the beginner class and rightly so, much better to make them move up quicker. I also only offer one class for them to race in, when you move up you can ride 2,3 or more classes, they bitch but I tell them it makes them move up quicker so they can race more classes and not sit around all day.

S
3/18/2008 4:23pm
cool sondra if that would take hold nation wide it would be a great step. It was placed in front of the committee a few years back and it was met with alot of flack. but no contingency for C class to start with would be a great start?
Sondra
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3/18/2008 4:28pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote="wardy":3rsz2pxa]cool sondra if that would take hold nation wide it would be a great step. It was placed in front of the committee a few years back and it was met with alot of flack. but no contingency for C class to start with would be a great start?[/quote:3rsz2pxa]


Wardy maybe you and I should sit down one day and discuss all the things which would make things more fair and ultimately better for mx ?? then we can go to O HI O and tell them boys at the top how it needs to be ?? 1st thing on my agenda ?? change the bloody names lol no more lites and mx or sx.

S
flarider
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3/18/2008 4:36pm
How's anyone going to take money out of it?
Demand bank statements and proof of deposits from every competitor at sign up?

Seriously, how could you take the money out of it?
3/18/2008 5:22pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote="old-fat-tired":13fkx35t]Kawasaki had 2 Big Rigs, Mechanics, Managers, staff etc all over the place
KTM had 1 Big Rig, and 3 smaller rigs etc...
Honda/Honda of Houston had 2 big Rigs...
Yamaha had 2 big rigs etc...
Suzuki was the only Manufacturer without a big rig, but their riders did very well. (I might have missed their rig)

I miss the Ford Econoline Van days when the sport was pure and the playing field was fairly level.[/quote:13fkx35t]

Of course there's more money in amateur racing these days. There are more amateur racers and the factories and sponsors realize the marketing value in the grass roots of the sport. Plus, the amateur ranks is where tomorrows Pro's come from--they are just investing in the future of the sport.

However, very few amateur racers are actually making any money. Just like at the Pro level, the most successful riders make the most money--in contingency and bonuses. If there wasn't any help from sponsors and the factories, a lot of people wouldn't be able to make it. The sport would dry up and the Pro ranks would eventually suffer.

Most of the rigs you see in the pits aren't funded by the factories or sponsors—except, of course, the ones the factories brought there themselves. And those are usually there to help anyone riding that particualr brand, not just their factory riders. The rest of the rigs, motorhomes, fun movers, or whatever, are privately funded by the families. And, yes, like Sondra said, some families go into deep hock to get their kids to the races. But who is anybody to judge them for doing so. If it's how they want to spend time together as a family, who are they hurting?

As far as regulating amateur racing like college sports...just because college athletes don't get paid, they are still being compensated, with scholarships. Last I checked, a year at college can cost upwards of $80,000.

Amateur racing has evolved with the times. There are currently more rides available in the Pro ranks than there were 10 or 15 years ago. Attendance has been steady in Supercross and grown in the Outdoors. There are more people involved in motocross now. The sport as a whole has grown, and with it, amateur racing has grown. It's all just natural progression.

But when all is said and done, money doesn't buy championships. It's still going to be the kid with the most drive, talent and determination who will do all the winning.

Just my .02 cents.

CH
KAWboy14
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3/18/2008 5:23pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
amatuer racing is an "event"......has nothing to do with people trying to earn money to feed their families!
motomom4
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3/18/2008 5:31pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote="wardy":13xwr2a6]cool sondra if that would take hold nation wide it would be a great step. It was placed in front of the committee a few years back and it was met with alot of flack. but no contingency for C class to start with would be a great start?[/quote:13xwr2a6]
How come everybody picks on the C class so much when the B class seems to be the problem right know, I am sure there are plenty of C riders that would love to move up to B if it wasn't for all the Factory riders in the B class, my son is 13 and I would love for him to move up to B but we just don't have the bikes or the money for him to be competetive in the B class, I actually think riders in the C class should get more recognition than they do especially the young ones who are running at the top, maybe if they got a little more help it would be easier for them to move up.
P
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3/18/2008 5:34pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote="Amateurmx":1vfh39z7]Last I checked, a year at college can cost upwards of $80,000.[/quote:1vfh39z7]

Ummmmm, that's a little high. :? It's more like $37,000.

Just saying.


P
flarider
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3/18/2008 5:41pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote="P":3cnfxsb8][quote="Amateurmx":3cnfxsb8]Last I checked, a year at college can cost upwards of $80,000.[/quote:3cnfxsb8]

Ummmmm, that's a little high. :? It's more like $37,000.

Just saying.


P[/quote:3cnfxsb8]
That would depend on the college, no?
Jarid332
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3/18/2008 5:45pm
Four years for me at U Of Maine would cost $40.000
P
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3/18/2008 5:49pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote="flarider":gaqwmjo1][quote="P":gaqwmjo1][quote="Amateurmx":gaqwmjo1]Last I checked, a year at college can cost upwards of $80,000.[/quote:gaqwmjo1]

Ummmmm, that's a little high. :? It's more like $37,000.

Just saying.


P[/quote:gaqwmjo1]
That would depend on the college, no?[/quote:gaqwmjo1]

Search on "Most expensive colleges." Everything is under $38,000 per year.


P
P
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3/18/2008 5:54pm
Actually it's up to a little over $39,000. Add room and board and it's $51,000. That's the most expensive college in the US.

P
CamP
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3/18/2008 5:55pm
You have to have a screw loose to encourage your kid to pursue a career in mx/sx.
P
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3/18/2008 5:56pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote="Jarid332":ugopvatv]Four years for me at U Of Maine would cost $[b:ugopvatv]40[u:ugopvatv].[/u:ugopvatv]000[/b:ugopvatv][/quote:ugopvatv]

What was your major??? :?:D


P
3/18/2008 5:57pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
P[/quote]
That would depend on the college, no?[/quote]

Search on "Most expensive colleges." Everything is under $38,000 per year.


P[/quote]

You're right, my bad. My son has been looking into schools, and with books and living expenses, I have a lot of numbers floating around in my head.

CH
3/18/2008 6:06pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote="CamP":du0k71rk]You have to have a screw loose to encourage your kid to pursue a career in mx/sx.[/quote:du0k71rk]

AMEN!! Motocross has become Ski racing!! If you cant afford the academys, training camps/coaches, travel etc... it doesnt matter how good or determined you are. You most likely will not make it.
3/18/2008 6:10pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote:2s8knl6s]Wardy maybe you and I should sit down one day and discuss all the things which would make things more fair and ultimately better for mx ?? then we can go to O HI O and tell them boys at the top how it needs to be ?? 1st thing on my agenda ?? change the bloody names lol no more lites and mx or sx.

S[/quote:2s8knl6s]

LOL hey dear they don't listen to me so maybe thats the needed input. We have so many "insiders" that there is no clue how the "OTHER" places run! Hell right now we are paying way to much for insurance and can't use what you guys do because it's not good enough? Oh well maybe some day. Lets get the advancement problem fixed, and then work on what is an Amateur?

The new "pro" DMG group I hope works with the Amatuer side of things we just got done with a whole placement process that took about 15 years of work, bitching, and head banging to be put in place. I think the pros should have a different license then the "pro Am's? if they do already cool, but i dont know.
nc97 (MD)
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3/18/2008 6:20pm
Its also everyone trying to keep up with the Jones. Just a simple fact of life some people have more $$$ then others. I cant understand when it you see families that you know personally that are just getting by but yet they have to have the blue hoses , blue brake cap etc etc...
jay547
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3/18/2008 6:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote="motomom4":1x2h4x7z]I would love for him to move up to B but we just don't have the bikes or the money for him to be competetive in the B class[/quote:1x2h4x7z]

i'm surprised at the lack of comments on this statement.

i pitted next to a b rider at branson a couple of years ago. they had a toy hauler, a large four-door truck, two bikes, a van full of parts, and a mechanic. the parents stayed at a motel in town while the mechanic and rider stayed in the toy hauler. they complained that they didn't have enough money to be competitive.
nc_mx_kid
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3/18/2008 6:53pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
I know of a factory supported AMATEUR rider that his parents have refinanced their house multiple times to support his racing, the dad works for an energy company and the mom goes with the kid everyday riding. IF he DOESN"t make it big times, they are going to have HUGE debt to pay off.

I realized when I jacked my wrist up that I'd never get rich racing so I got a job selling bikes FULLTime @ a mutliline dealership that I'd rode for over the years, go to COLLEGE FULLtime, and RACE on the weekends; when I feel like it and/or can afford to go.
I love selling bikes, College is a grind, LOVE racing. It makes for a long day.
motomom4
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3/18/2008 7:09pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote="jay547":31qnjufy][quote="motomom4":31qnjufy]I would love for him to move up to B but we just don't have the bikes or the money for him to be competetive in the B class[/quote:31qnjufy]

i'm surprised at the lack of comments on this statement.

i pitted next to a b rider at branson a couple of years ago. they had a toy hauler, a large four-door truck, two bikes, a van full of parts, and a mechanic. the parents stayed at a motel in town while the mechanic and rider stayed in the toy hauler. they complained that they didn't have enough money to be competitive.[/quote:31qnjufy]I bet the kid was much older than 13, my son is going to move up soon, he will be an intermediate at the age of 14 but I was just saying that the problem is with the B class, so the C class shouldn't be punished by taking away their contingency money.
KAWboy14
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3/18/2008 7:31pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:24pm
[quote="nc_mx_kid":1l6uzock]I know of a factory supported AMATEUR rider that his parents have refinanced their house multiple times to support his racing, the dad works for an energy company and the mom goes with the kid everyday riding. IF he DOESN"t make it big times, they are going to have HUGE debt to pay off.

I realized when I jacked my wrist up that I'd never get rich racing so I got a job selling bikes FULLTime @ a mutliline dealership that I'd rode for over the years, go to COLLEGE FULLtime, and RACE on the weekends; when I feel like it and/or can afford to go.
I love selling bikes, College is a grind, LOVE racing. It makes for a long day.[/quote:1l6uzock]

i know people refinancing their houses and wasting the money for more dumb reasons than that.

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