The AMA is at it again, 130+ B Riders bumped to A

I was just looking through the header on MD and saw:

[quote:2lrj025j]The AMA is at it again, 130+ B Riders bumped to A[/quote:2lrj025j]

It can also be read as The AMA is at it again, 1 30+ B Riders bumped to A if you look at it quickly. HAR!

[quote="flarider":36j5pw8o]STFU sandbagger[/quote:36j5pw8o]
your just upset i never came to your chicken feast.

[quote="wardy":3is9j1a2][quote:3is9j1a2]Do they still have that rule if you havent raced in 3 years you can move back a class? I think I might have to give B class another shot, this could be my year.[/quote:3is9j1a2]

Sorry but this is one of the most misquoted NON RULE there was, you will not find in the AMA rule book this rule anywhere and it was never in there EVER.

LOL, it goes by submitting a request to return in class, and now you have to go in front of a panel who decides ONE TIME, after that you can't appeal and appeal and appeal......it's one shot.[/quote:3is9j1a2]


Cozadd appealed, didn't he?

D23 ran this advancement system for the past two seasons. Although it's not perfect, it moves people up that maintain a finish position average that has been set to advance.

As Wardy mentioned, you can get around the system by keeping the number of races under 6 which many of these factory "B" riders have done in the past.

I'm confident there will be a lot of fine tuning, but it's good to see these top finishers being advanced as they should be. As for the age classes, many of those riders might advance in different class.

[quote="Scott Kalisch":b7hb72vt]Since when is moving up not honorable?

I thought the whole point was to go as fast as you can, and try to advance to the highest level you can?[/quote:b7hb72vt]


That's what we kept telling you about moving out, too........

[quote="DL":2lxy30k3]Just getting a handle on it.... appears as though 130 some odd B riders have been bumped to A class. I spoke to Leanne Baggett, Blake's mom, who had the rules printed out. The entire Xtreme Team Green B team of Sjoberg and Wilson, Travis Baker, Bruce Rutherford are names that come to mind. In Rutherford's situation he rode four classses at a Loretta qualifier at Comp Edge last year and averaged 18 points. The AMA rule says 15 or more point average and your bumped. Rutherford got hurt after that and did not ride the Regional. That was the only AMA race he attended all year! Also from what I here the amateur team managers are very unhappy about it and are trying to change the rule..... should be interesting with Qualifires starting today. For those of you that want to read up on the rules go to the AMA website and look at the rules.... page 45 breaks down how the points are awarded. There is also a results section where you can search by rider name and or event. The rider search shows the average points..... It's gonna be a mess![/quote:2lxy30k3]

Good, maybe they'll get faster instead of collecting $10.00 trophys

I see the points on the AMA site, but how do you know if you got moved up or not? They list all riders, even ones with 1 point etc. Whats the cutoff and how do you know if your moved up?

[quote:2lgn8abb]Wardy, in your opinion, is the system starting to work as it should?[/quote:2lgn8abb]

It's getting there, considered this. 2000 Dave Arva and Myself used his and my districts advancement system, "blended" them and that was the start of what we have today. Dave re-wrote much of it in 2002 after we (ama and mx side congress people) had like 4-5 meetings. This covered pro am to mini 85cc riders. I wrote the first A class to Pro am advancement points system and it was sent to whitlock and carnegie......anyway it's been tweeked a bunch of times because of the big disparity between riders who main hit qualifiers, and local riders who don't. What is been a big problem over the years is that we have had roger, steve, and now ryan at the head of that department. It has taken as much time teaching or walking through the process with the "new" guys. We should have been to this point we are today.............in 2004. Ryan is a good kid and will listen, not to mention he seems to be a "numbers" guy. So this new points table we are using for 2008 will be tested and I am pretty sure he spent alot of time setting it up. My biggest problem is that AMA just "assumes" that everyone either uses trackside software, or the AMA software. Some of us do not use it and thats been hard to send in the results, so I do that in november and send all the non comforming stuff in. AMA's biggest problem is that they are likley missing 45% of the total results out there? I am glad they went ahead and moved people anyway. We all have to get settled in to the new system, it will work fine once all the riders understand it. It sure is a lot easier on use "points" keepers out here as we used to be responsable for advancement, and man can you piss a guy off or a lot of people off when you move them at a time they don't like.........



short answer...................yes I am glad they posted or sent us lists to post. Now lets see how the appeals process works and make sure we don't have a repeat of last year.

[quote="DL":xc4k1vhi]Wardy, the buzz at the Perris qualifier yesterday is that the rule is on hold, the team managers complained and therefore no riders that were bumped showed up. I heard this from many riders and a track official.[/quote:xc4k1vhi]

If that's true, it would be a another black eye for the AMA.

Unless it came from Ryan Holiday directly, I wouldn't put too much stock in it. The only way the advanced riders aren't moved up is if they appeal and win.

Anyone have a link to the B to A list???

I am shocked that the teams didn't know or pay attention to the national advancement rules.

I have heard both, on here i hear there is a list. i heard other places that no B - A riders are being moved and thats crap. Sure the rules have been changed for 2008. But that doesn't mean a B rider can stay in B because of an 08 rule which doesnt affect 07 results. More importantly if riders "stayed away" from a race because of advancment i think that shows a little more of a charactor of said rider and not badly of AMA. Rules are in place, follow the dam rules. Don't like the rules then find a way to change them, or work the appeal process.

It absolute bullshit that riders today strive to be the fastest slow guys. I don't think last years advancement process was flawed that much, and you can bet for dam sure that riders who are being advanced with a 15 point average should be A. If they spent all summer sucking up "easy" contengincy, well thats part of the deal isn't it.

Sorry but "team managers" now can change rules? Team? what this is pro amatuer ranks? this is the problem, and it better not be the reason we don't have a B-A list? LOL would take about a full day but a list could be made off the ama site? All the information is there.

Maybe it's about time to go back to only allowing A class riders at the amateur nationals. There is too much subjectivity involved in really determining who a B or C class rider really is. The original intent of the different classes was to break up riders based on experience. Now you can have a kid thats raced for 10+ years attempting to work around the rules so that he can still race in the B class at LL. If LL only allowed A class riders, these kids would be begging to move up ASAP and we have all the best riders competing in the same classes.

good for them...you fucking cheaters and yer cheatin whiney ass kids should be ashamed. you ain't gonna amount to shit anyways.

Looking forward to seeing the list. I think it is a big step in the right direction. In our district, under the old advancement system, a rider had to have so many points to be advanced, so riders would get within a couple of points and quit riding for the rest of the season. The points did not carry over. After implementing a new system, only district races counted - so there were a good many riders who rode out of district to keep from being advanced. I'm glad that the new national system takes into account ALL of the races.

The age rule "belief" has been around for years, too. I think that if a 30+ rider is fast enough to gain enough points to be advanced when racing in a displacement class, then they should be advanced.

I just wish people understood the difference between A which is basically a LOCAL expert and the PRO class.
IMO, riders should not have the option of going directly from B to PRO.

[quote:jkh181xq]I just wish people understood the difference between A which is basically a LOCAL expert and the PRO class.
IMO, riders should not have the option of going directly from B to PRO.[/quote:jkh181xq]

yer an idiot.

I think the best way to do it is to take all the contingency money that OEM's are paying, combine it, and then only pay contingency in the A and/or Pro class.

This would be a huge start in cleaning up the BS that is going on. Amateurs should consider that they are exactly that and there is no reason they should be paid at the C and B levels. Period.

Take the factory involvement out of the B class, I sure hope the AMA does not back down on this. All of this talk of rules, and Nascar buying racing, this would be the best thing, they rule with an iron fist and do not care who you are, if you break the rules you pay

Isn't this kid earning around six figures as an AMATEUR MX racer?

[img:18dyfr0q]http://images.grindtv.com/images/1/00/06/06/29/60629_210.jpg[/img:18dyf…]

[quote:32ggy7a5]I think the best way to do it is to take all the contingency money that OEM's are paying, combine it, and then only pay contingency in the A and/or Pro class.[/quote:32ggy7a5]

Not a bad idea. but one that would meet alot of static.............. If they paid good purese money and contingency down to what 20th place, you would have riders falling over each other to become an A rider.

OH and make sure once you have achieved "A" class status, that unless it's another A racer you don't speak to them.......basically you didn't exsist to the "elite" group.

A class riders didn't speak to B class riders and NEVER would they show them lines or such.......basically just laugh at your "yellow" numbers.


ya I know I am an old turd, but that was the facts in 1977..................

[quote:3uxu22md]I think the best way to do it is to take all the contingency money that OEM's are paying, combine it, and then only pay contingency in the A and/or Pro class.

This would be a huge start in cleaning up the BS that is going on. Amateurs should consider that they are exactly that and there is no reason they should be paid at the C and B levels. Period.[/quote:3uxu22md]

logic, brain use and the AMA are allergic to each other.

bobby, I think actually it would be more of a OEM's decisiion then ama, i mean sure there could be a rule made and make people mad as hell. Honestly it wouldn't pass. It would have to be a decision made with everyones input, and know that it would improve the sport alot.

But on topic with this thread, I personally think the advancement system will work and work well once it's implemeted without bias. team managers, big race promoters, big name who evers should be treated no differently then pickup truck boy running the local races every weekend. Once that is done, once the people who have the "ear" of who ever, and they then realize it's the rules......then this will work.

How is that done. Repetition. over and over, until they know the answer to the question on staying B......that answer is




NO>


thats why I am so loved here and frankly glad it's not my total responsability anymore.

sounds way fair to me to bump em up,,,some of these guys stay in there way too long just to win everything and they were ready along time ago... The factory mangers whining ? Maybe they should be sponsoring A class riders

most ams are career pooseys...and so are their dads.

Here are a couple of scenarios you can work out:
1. A rider turns intermediate, races his first year and ends up 20th at Mammoth. Never raced any other nationals until 2007. 2007 was his first year racing Nationals and had some good and not so good finishes, never winning one. Do we keep him in the B class for experience or move him up to A just because his "average" is above the line?
2. This rider is an excellent rider, has raced Nationals for most of his life. He understands the new rule and decides to not finish well at a few of the races so his 'AVERAGE" is below the move up numbers. He gets to ride B and rider 1. has to move up?

This is an interesting issue, I agree that riders who have been in the same class for years and have sandbagged the class should have to change up. But is there going to be "exceptions" to the rules based on intelligent decisions and valid information? Or is it an "as usual" blatant blanket that is going to cover everybody?

The "B" class is tough and the teams are looking at riders to gain experience and learn to "Win" in this class. It has produced some fairly good riders (everyone knows who they are). Change is good and properly executed change is better. Lets hope someone can make the correct decisions based on individual riders. their careers may be a stake.
Alan

for an mxtrainer you don't know shit noob.

The AMA should move riders to the A class based on results; there is nothing wrong with this. It doesn't matter if the top B riders parents, sponsor or any OEM don't like it. The A class is the class for the fastest and most talented guys so they should be there. Obviously that isn't the case right now or in the past. However, maybe the AMA can change that? Its their job to do so. If their decision isn't popular with some people who cares? The AMA's job is to maintain as fair of a playing field as possible not cater to the wants of a few riders. Hopefully the new AMA can keep pushing toward this goal.

Bobby,
are we going to have a problem again?
Easy with the noob issue.
I may know a little.
Are the questions that hard? or just the answers.
Alan

yer still a noob alan...here at least. hahahahaha! 3 posts ain't shit boy!!!!! come to think of it...100000 posts aren't either. lmao

Bobby,
I knew if I tried really hard everything would become clear to me.
Thank you again for the clarification on this issue.
Forever indebted,
your pal Al