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I'll give it a try
I don't mind the concept, in fact I already keep my maintenance and setup notes on an app on my phone. Basic preinstalled notebook app with a separate file for each bike and auto. I don't see any added value to seeing clicks in percentages though, and I don't see how those percentages correlate to balance. It sounds like your suggesting if you match compression and rebound percentages on the forks and shock the bike will be balanced, and that's not necessarily true. A perfectly balanced bike could have much different compression and rebound settings front to back, there are many other factors. Could mislead a newb.
exactly.. without entering spring rates, sag, valve stacks etc there is no way to know what settings will create a balanced bike. and Every rider is different.. What feels good and balanced to you might not to me. Everyone rides and places body weight differently.. If anything this app is going to lead riders down the wrong road for suspension tuning.
Hello there! thanks for your reply.
Let's go with "A perfectly balanced bike could have much different compression and rebound settings front to back, there are many other factors. Could mislead a newb".
The app does not balance your bike out. It helps you check the balance between the adjusters, especially with the rebound, which can make the rear to kick you over the bars if the rebound adjusters are not properly balanced.
We studied the great guys in the sport who have something to say about suspension. About balance, here is what the great Ryno Hughes has to say about it:
After finding a balance, Ryno could use the app to check the balance between the adjusters, and use that info to tell if the rider needs to take his suspension to a tuner.
So if anything, this app helps suspension tuners since it provides helpful info. If a rider comes claiming that he feels his bike is balanced with a 90% front and a 30% rear compression, then he could check the riding style to have more info and could provide a diagnosis when checking the insides of the forks and shock. But most OEM bikes come with balanced suspension (except for the '22 and '23 CRF 250, those forks are stiff!). If the rebounds are too far apart, well, that to me is dangerous for the rider.
The app comes with "Balance check". The word "check" is what it is, a check of the balance of the settings forks-shock. You are critizising the app for not doing something it does not claim to do. Please do not attribute magic effects to it.
Actually, this app helps suspension tuners as well as coaches. It is not a threat or an enemy to them, but an ally to them.
We have been working with Spain's Race Tech guru Jose Pastor who was the suspension tuner of Jose Butron when he won the 2022 Euro MX Championship. So sorry, but I have to totally disagree with that. If settings are much different from front to back, that is a sign that something is totally wrong with either the riding style or with the suspension setup.
It goes without saying that, in order to find propper settings, riding style (ie positioning on the bike) has to be correct. You cannot have a previous good setting work for you if all of a sudden you start riding with all of your weight on the rear of the bike. I think you would all agree with me on that?
I am busy as heck but I will try to reply to all the comments as soon as I can.
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Your correct. Who cares if someone is trying to sell a product about Moto to Moto heads get off your high horse, suss it out yourselves and if it’s a rip blast it.
I downloaded the app just to check it out.
The first thing I noticed was that it was only usable for bikes that are in its system. Meaning only Mx bikes.
There are lots of off road riders that might have use of the app but it’s not usable in it’s current form.
As a suggestion, why don’t you have it so that if a certain fork/shock isn’t in the system just let the rider enter the total number of clicks and let the app figure out the percentage.
Good luck with your app.
Hi Layton! The app does just that, go thru it and it will ask you to enter the number of clicks in your suspension.
What bike do you have? I can add it to the list!
Cheers
There's an excel program for that called restackor. Works really well and is not free.
Its not for retards though. You'll find out in about 5 minutes of using that program if you are retarded or not.
I know restackor but who has a PC anymore?
Playing around with excel sheets on a phone is a pain in the ass.
With phone you could just scan piston ports etc.
I just added a 2016 RMZ 450 with KLOSS conversion kit under request from a user. I can do the same thing if you need so!
We have weekly posts and/or reels on Instagram. The last one is about enduro racers getting into a MX track, you might want to check it out!
https://www.instagram.com/clickersmxapp
Best, J.
My $.02-I like the idea and good on you for jumping into this. The thing that would be most helpful, particualry to newer riders and idiots like me who second guess everything, is an app that can help you know what adjustments to make based on on conditions that day. I am thinking a cross between the Motool app and the Race Tech Spring Rate guide. You input your "go to" base settings and enter other dats based on a variety of factors, height, weight, terrain, skill and your fork/shock settings & spring rates. Then you can input conditions where you are searching. Do I take clicks out of rebound in forks, is what I am looking to solve for in the shock? Am I riding deep sand or hard base and marbles; struggling in square edge bumps. Then a "try this first, then try this" might be a great feature. I have been riding and my son racing for 12 years and I still think suspension set up is witchcraft. We don't have the resources or time to test like pros and once we find a good set-up it doesn't mean jack when we are ranging from open desert to soft moto tracks. It is so easy to get lost and despite how much I think I know, I have found the majority of people think they know more and we are both usually wrong! Ask 10 guys and you'll get 10 different opinions!
A feature like this would be nearly impossible to get reliable results with.
There are some general rules of thumb though that you don’t need an app to tell you.
Soft terrain/sand - harder compression settings to keep the bike from diving.
Harder terrain - softer settings to comply to the ground better.
Too many times I think people ignore rebound as well. A lot of times what feels like a compression setting that is too stiff is actually rebound that is too fast.
Agreed, basic rules of thumb are good, but it is really easy to get lost. At least for me. I just tried the app and cool that it gives me the percentages, but ok, now what do I do with that? With Ai language technology, every Youtube video, article, etc, can be scanned and data aggregated for common guidance. It wouldn't be cheap but can be done. I use the Motool app to track changes, but having a guide, kind of like a "suspension tech in your pocket" would be helpful and cut down on the back and forth. Especially when you're at a race and trying to make changes between practice and the race or betwen motos, you just don't have time to guess. maybe I'm just the idiot, but when we ask "guys" hey what would you do here...they're usually wrong. So again, having something that takes all of the basics and combines that with some "try this, then this, then that" would be helpful. One thing I did notice is there is no setting for fork preload on spring conversions.
You know, the app was first released early in 2023 with a free version and a premium version. After more than a year, and collaborating with pro riders, I realized that very, very little pro riders were into testing suspension, had very little knowledge and far less interest in investing time learning. With the exception on José Butron, that dude is an animal. He is well over his 30s and still slapping ass here at the nationals. He scored a 6th overall at Southwick last year! Long story short, he broke his ankle in three parts while on his prime in MXGP and spent his time off the bike learning suspension. Now he can beat younger and stronger riders with ease.
The thing is - we have to get riders into adjusting suspension taking baby steps, little by little. Change won't come overnight. I feel that the free version of the app is a great starting point, it is simple and helps riders to make mistake-free adjustments. That is a start, IMO.
I totally agree with you on all the many factors that come into play, actually, I use Instagram to share everything that comes to my attention. I also have the bible of suspension (RaceTEch) and I co-host with Spain's RaceTech guru Jose Pastor coaching to teach riders how to do testing. Every little thing helps.
All being said, I strongly suggest that you try the app, keep a base setting that works for you on your usual rides, and then adjust it as you go. For instance, try this and see how it works for you (it sure does for me!): when I start riding, a lower my compression force by 20% for the parade lap and 3-4 warm up laps. Then I go back to my base setting. Slower rides call for softer suspension; the faster I get, the stiffer the setting. Use the app to build the basic reactions of your adjustments, feel the bike out, see what each adjustment does.
Eventuallhy, you will start getting a need to know more. It is pretty addictive!
not at all, you're not an idiot. I think you hit that right. AI is helpful, and we are currently working on that. In the meantime, you can follow us on Instagram out of curiosity, you will see that even the top level pro riders struggle quite a lot with it.
There is no magic pill that you can substitute for actually trying different settings. And a lot of getting the settings right is knowing the rider and how they communicate what they are feeling. Or if you are the rider having a really good idea where you are having problems in the suspension stroke and what direction to go. No app can do this for you. Data acquisition might help if you know what you are doing with it but there are still a lot of variables there.
The best thing you can do is keep a log.
On faster firmer tracks we’ve gone this direction with good / bad results
Softer we’ve gone this way etc.. eventually you’ll have a good database to draw from and do less guessing.
Ya, my son isn't great at communicating what he feels or wants to change. It's always a work in progress! Keefer had a great pod cast on terminology as well as what questions I can ask i.e. is what you are feeling on or off the throttle. The answer will yield two different solutions.
To whom it may concern: clickers MX app has pro features for everyone! it is totally free.
I will say this: if you would ride a bike which could be deadly without total disregard to its suspension settings, something is wrong with you.Really.
Find out here: www.clickersapp.com
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