Hey guys another vet rider considering a 350. I only ride moto and I am a mid vet B on my best, but more so a faster C guy. I am currently on a 22 GG MC 450, only motor mods are TD exhaust flange and the optional map switch. I normally ride the bike on map 2 "fast map" with traction control on. This past weekend's race the track was rough and rutted out pretty good so I gave map 1"slow map" a try with TC off. Wow what a difference, bike felt really dead down low and in sharp turns or deeper dirt you could really feel it lag, was fine once it was clutched and or allowed the revs to pick back up. This is all in 3rd gear as I try not wasting time/energy shifting unless absolutely necessary. Since going to the 450 from a 22 ktm sx 250 2 stroke, I have never exactly felt at home with the weight and feeling of this bike, even after 70+ hours. Assuming it's the 450 motor effect. Though I do like the point and shoot power on map 2. So knowing a bit of my back story, how does the new 350s feel down low and into mid range? Do they really handle that much better? I may have to bite the bullet and loose some power to get some handling back, if these 350s are really that much better in the turns VS. A 450. Sorry for the long read, just trying to paint a picture for you guys.
I went from a 21 mc450 to a 23 mc350. The 450 turned better and all I did was install a fat boy shock spring and adjust all clickers all the way stiff. The 350 has a kyb conversion and both ends done by pr2. It's better than stock.
Honestly I wish I still had the mellow 450. It was easier to jump stuff when I got a little tired, and handled better in my opinion.
That's interesting as if I'm not mistaken the 23 GG were still the same frame as the 21 and 22? On the motor end of things the 23 GG had the older motor which had less grunt so I could totally see the disappointment in that VS. A 450.
One of my buddies did your shootout last week...
I have the 2023 MC350F with a KYB fork and firmed up springs and valving at both ends for my 165lbs 40+A racing.
Also, I run map 2 with the TC turned off normally.
Last weekend I installed a Vortex with XPR's maps. Reduced engine braking and it runs super clean. Cool!
The initial throttle response from XPR is just a little too touchy for my taste. I am probably outside of the norm in that opinion.
I preferred the OEM map 2 and the XPR smooth delivery map over all the other options I've ridden on the 350F.
I let my 225lbs 63 year old Expert buddy ride it. He rides a FC450 Rockstar Edition with some kit suspension and stays in map 2 on his bike.
He rode my MC350F in XPR "best overall power" map with stock gearing and my suspension settings.
He said he was surprised how much lighter the 350F feels and how much better it leans over and rides through a corner.
I haven't ridden his bike in a while, but I pretty much agree with his statements.
I have been back and forth with 350's and 450's for the last few years and currently own both, a 23 350sxf and a 24 kx450. And while I think it mainly depends what sort of rider you are as to which is better for you, I honestly think most people would be better/safer and probably faster on a 350.
Everything is just that little bit easier to do on a 350 compared to a 450 is the best way I can describe it. Most average Joe riders that say they prefer a 450 often say its because they can be lazy and still clear obstacles on the track. To this I say stop being lazy, your never too old to learn better technique and get fitter. A 350 is the perfect bike to do that on, enough power for 99% of people and not too much either.
I'll also add if you are mainly riding for fun then there is absolutely no competition, the 350 wins that one hands down.
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I had a 22 GG450 and currently have a 23 GG350 with the old style engine. I'm a 55 year old racer and my next bike will be a 450 again. It's just easier to clear stuff while going slower in the corners. I'm also not a rever, so I'm sure I'm not riding my 350 in the right RPM range. For me it's just easier to ride a 450.
My 350 looks great though. haha
Did he mention anything about the power of the 350?
I asked him about it since I was trying out that ECU.
He said it wasn't as fast as his 450F, but didn't say it sucked. I got the impression that he liked the way the bike handles and prefers the 450F torque. He doesn't carry the same corner speed and he weighs 60lbs more than I do, so that makes sense and rhymes with what @moto67e said in his post above.
We had a lot of conversation about why a 450F feels so much heavier than a 250F or a 350F. I think there's a lot more to it than the standard "rotating mass" explanation that everyone parrots about these bikes.
I can buy that. Makes me wonder if you took a smoother 450 like the 2024 kx 450 or the GG 450 and slapped on a ecu that takes away engine breaking if that would be more what guys are looking for.
I think it has alot to do with with fast revving very responsive nature of the 350 engine that makes the bike feel so light. I'd say my kx450 actually has less engine braking than my 350 but because the 450 is alot slower revving feels so much heavier.
I go back to back on them all the time just to try and really feel the differences. I'd say the difference between them feels less on the first few laps of the 450 but everything just amplifies so much quicker on the 450 as you get a little tired.
I still can't for the life of me understand how people say a 350 wears them out more than a 450.
For some guys, that's probably the sweet spot.
I think guys who see it mostly from the chassis & handling angle still feel advantages in a 350F.
It seems like I heard Keefer and one of his buddies talking about down-tuning a 450F and how it still doesn't feel the same.
Suspension settings have to be stiffer on a 450F to deal with the increased torque. In some places on the track that adds to the factors making the 450F feel a bit heavier.
I really think a guy has to ride the bikes back to back to know what suits him best since we all have a different combination of body type, fitness, riding style and riding conditions.
Not an exact comparison, but I’ve got a 21.5 450 SX-F. While map 2 is more fun, I run mine the majority of the time on map 1 without TC. I am faster (although it feels the opposite) on map 1. Less wheel spin, and less tiring. Also forces me to keep momentum up.
Where I have used map 2 is at altitude the couple of times I’ve been there, as it helped bring some throttle response back that you lose with altitude.
When I was younger I used to love having a bike that hit hard, etc…over time I’ve found what feels fast or slow is often the opposite.
The KTM 450s (and the red or white relatives) are definitely soft-feeling in the motor department compared to several of the Japanese competitors. I came from my 18 KX, and at first, thought the KTM was a dog. Over time I realized it was a lot faster than it seemed, due to the smooth delivery.
In my own case, I tried a buddy’s 350 and absolutely hated it, but I also tend to ride low in the power. I had been considering one until that point.
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