New SX format-check it out!

bents
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Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 1:32pm
With all these discussions of injuries (track design, power of 450, etc, etc), what about this one:
-a max 250cc displacement rule, period.
-ONE class, no more 250/450
-all the best guys race against each other
-4 heats of 10 laps each-top 4 go to the main
-1 LCQ-8 laps-top 4 go to main
-30 lap main.

Check it out. No more worrying about pointing out. No more east west. Pourcel, Canard, et al can race against RV, RD, JS in SX. The privateers can run a 2 stroke to save cash and be competitive. WHEN injuries occur, it doesn't decimate the class and the competitiveness. The tracks have to be built on a slightly more smaller scale so we hope guys will stay safer, and perhaps be punished less for a little whisky throttle unlike the severity of the same affliction on the 450.

Think of the battles that could have occurred over the past year with everyone on a 250 cc scoot. I think it would be epic and as it has been pointed out-its about the racing-not how many jumps there are in 51 seconds.

Plus we get more racing, the track doesn't get as chewed up, and each heat race alone would like a main event! The biggest bonus might be the return of a little braap action on the stadium floor.

Call me stupid, tell me to shut the fuck up, but this one might be the winner winner chicken dinner baby!
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huck
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4/20/2010 6:39am
You're stupid and you should shut the fuck up.
bents
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4/20/2010 6:41am
huck wrote:
You're stupid and you should shut the fuck up.
Okaaay, why then? I don't mind being told to shut the fuck up, but a decent argument against the idea would help to ease my feelings being hurt....
Trauma
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4/20/2010 6:43am Edited Date/Time 4/20/2010 6:48am
That would end the career of many a rider (1 main, 20 gates=less contracts) and the factories along with riders worldwide would not support it. The factories have invested too much into the 450+ lineups to just drop them and not everyone wants to ride a lites bike.
Racer111
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4/20/2010 6:48am
huck wrote:
You're stupid and you should shut the fuck up.
bents wrote:
Okaaay, why then? I don't mind being told to shut the fuck up, but a decent argument against the idea would help to ease my feelings...
Okaaay, why then? I don't mind being told to shut the fuck up, but a decent argument against the idea would help to ease my feelings being hurt....
Yeah, stfu! You really think its fair for a first year SX guy to have to race against JS7 or CR, RD or whoever his first time out? The Lites class is where you develop, then move up to the big class.

Not to mention the manufactures are not going to allow the AMA and MX just get rid of the 450's. If they went to your plan, the lack of 450 sales would hurt the manufactures. That means less money, less support for Satelite teams, less money for Factory teams, etc......

The Shop

huck
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4/20/2010 6:49am
huck wrote:
You're stupid and you should shut the fuck up.
bents wrote:
Okaaay, why then? I don't mind being told to shut the fuck up, but a decent argument against the idea would help to ease my feelings...
Okaaay, why then? I don't mind being told to shut the fuck up, but a decent argument against the idea would help to ease my feelings being hurt....
You said to call you stupid and tell you to shut the fuck up....




#1. Why would the manufacturers go for a series that "outlaws" their best selling dirt bikes?

#2. The younger riders aren't strong enough (mentally or physically) to compete in a whole series. Trey Canard mentioned this several times on the podium.

#3. It would eliminate a lot of privateers from making the night show...let alone the main.

#4. 2 strokes are a thing of the past. Kind of like dinosaurs and full floater suspension.

bents
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4/20/2010 6:50am
I don't agree. Racing SX still provides the exposure a sponsor seeks, they are still getting their tv time, and the unfortunate guys who are at the back of the pack get little if any exposure now. Not to say it isn't a huge accomplishment just to make a main in either class b/c it is. To me it only enhances the product and the prestige of the championship while helping to solve many of the issues that currently exist in SX.
Holigan
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4/20/2010 6:53am
The original SX Series was similar. Four Heats, two Semi's, one LCQ and the Main. Everybody was on a 250. It was cool to see young kids like RJ and RL spank the greats in SX.
bents
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4/20/2010 6:57am
But Huck, why can they run an entire 12 race outdoor series, which is much more difficult than SX? Not to mention the fact that the minimum age going up to 18 will help with that transition. I'm not suggesting a change to the outdoor series. This is where the big bikes shine and it won't diminish in any way the sale of those bikes imho.

We are filling up the gates as they exist right now. As much as we all root for the privateers, that term has largely gone the way of the dinosaur at the pro level. 2 strokes haven't gone away, and if those remaining true privateers can be more competitive with much less money spent, isn't that a good thing?

See, now I feel better about you telling me to shut the fuck up after giving me a good reason!
Racer111
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4/20/2010 6:57am
bents wrote:
I don't agree. Racing SX still provides the exposure a sponsor seeks, they are still getting their tv time, and the unfortunate guys who are at...
I don't agree. Racing SX still provides the exposure a sponsor seeks, they are still getting their tv time, and the unfortunate guys who are at the back of the pack get little if any exposure now. Not to say it isn't a huge accomplishment just to make a main in either class b/c it is. To me it only enhances the product and the prestige of the championship while helping to solve many of the issues that currently exist in SX.
Ok, we explained it and you still don't get it.

Maybe you're special ed.

Just quit posting. You don't have a clue.
huck
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4/20/2010 7:05am
bents wrote:
But Huck, why can they run an entire 12 race outdoor series, which is much more difficult than SX? Not to mention the fact that the...
But Huck, why can they run an entire 12 race outdoor series, which is much more difficult than SX? Not to mention the fact that the minimum age going up to 18 will help with that transition. I'm not suggesting a change to the outdoor series. This is where the big bikes shine and it won't diminish in any way the sale of those bikes imho.

We are filling up the gates as they exist right now. As much as we all root for the privateers, that term has largely gone the way of the dinosaur at the pro level. 2 strokes haven't gone away, and if those remaining true privateers can be more competitive with much less money spent, isn't that a good thing?

See, now I feel better about you telling me to shut the fuck up after giving me a good reason!
You should go watch Arenacross...
Dyl80
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4/20/2010 7:22am
It's people like this guy who come up with dumb ideas and ruin the sport we all love.
bents
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4/20/2010 7:29am
111,

You explained it? I must have missed it while in my special ed class. WTF is with the attitude? All I'm doing is presenting a new format for SX after reading thread after thread of other suggestions, complaints, and issues. All I expect in return is a half assed intelligent response and if you can't supply that, don't respond in the thread.

And Huck, I do watch arenacross. So why can't sx entertain a few more on the gate while you bring that up? I also watch MotoGP, World Superbike, F1, and most other forms of racing b/c I love racing.

jdj727
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4/20/2010 7:31am
Um you would have 64 guys in the last chance....Think again cause your brain is really f ed up...That would be a epic first turn for sure though..
bents
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4/20/2010 7:37am
Dyl80 wrote:
It's people like this guy who come up with dumb ideas and ruin the sport we all love.
Dy180,

Ruin the sport we all love huh? You are about as sharp as the edge of town. Way to constructively contribute to the thread. So much for creating an intelligent dialogue around here. I don't mind being dissed for the suggestion, but offer an alternative or don't reply to the thread. I look forward to your first suggestion for a possible way to improve our sport.
bents
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4/20/2010 7:45am
jdj727 wrote:
Um you would have 64 guys in the last chance....Think again cause your brain is really f ed up...That would be a epic first turn for...
Um you would have 64 guys in the last chance....Think again cause your brain is really f ed up...That would be a epic first turn for sure though..
727,

You're right! Didn't think about the back end of this format, only the front end. At least someone offered up a constructive thought. Perhaps a consolation race of some kind at the back end? I just want to see all the top guys in the same class in SX b/c I think it would make for the best racing possible and I'm sure there is a format out there that could make it happen. We all complain that there isn't enough racing in the current format, and that is because we are told that the 450's tear up the track too much, etc, and whatever else we are being told. Pretty much everyone here has agreed to the fact that there isn't enough racing over the course of an evening of SX.
Racer111
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4/20/2010 8:02am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:16pm
bents wrote:
727, You're right! Didn't think about the back end of this format, only the front end. At least someone offered up a constructive thought. Perhaps a...
727,

You're right! Didn't think about the back end of this format, only the front end. At least someone offered up a constructive thought. Perhaps a consolation race of some kind at the back end? I just want to see all the top guys in the same class in SX b/c I think it would make for the best racing possible and I'm sure there is a format out there that could make it happen. We all complain that there isn't enough racing in the current format, and that is because we are told that the 450's tear up the track too much, etc, and whatever else we are being told. Pretty much everyone here has agreed to the fact that there isn't enough racing over the course of an evening of SX.
The first 4 posts after yours explained EXACTLY why your idea is ridiculous. Not to mention not a single post in here has in any way, thought your idea was good. THAT in itself should tell you something.

1)Your idea takes 20 guys out of a Main event and takes away half the people who have Factory rides. This makes 3/4 of the field Privateers riding "your 2 stroke" idea when 3 of the big 4 do not even produce 2 strokes anymore. (Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki)


Are you comprehending yet? We have not even addressed the fact that the Big 4 companies would not even allow this. The fans wouldn't go for it either. They come for entertainment. Now there 150.00 tickets only give them 1 Main event instead of 2. Bye Bye Supercross attendence.

Now please, stfu before you try and ruin SX even more!!
Chris_ONeal
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4/20/2010 8:19am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:16pm
Didn't you know Bents? Almost everyone on here responds with a insult to make themselves feel better!


Your idea won't ever work in supercross, but I see how your just looking for some real answers instead of STFU or insulting responses.


Seriously don't waste your time fighting back with these guys, it's not worth it! Plus they live to put other people down and are waiting for your next response.
bents
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4/20/2010 8:42am
Didn't you know Bents? Almost everyone on here responds with a insult to make themselves feel better! Your idea won't ever work in supercross, but I...
Didn't you know Bents? Almost everyone on here responds with a insult to make themselves feel better!


Your idea won't ever work in supercross, but I see how your just looking for some real answers instead of STFU or insulting responses.


Seriously don't waste your time fighting back with these guys, it's not worth it! Plus they live to put other people down and are waiting for your next response.
Sigh,

Thanks Chris. I was going to follow up with a another suggestion to the format to try to further provoke some discussion but you are right. Intelligent debate on this forum is obviously not possible for some and I refuse to follow the majority of the people in this thread into a sparring match of personal insults. It was simply a light hearted big picture thought about what can be done to improve/change the sport of SX.

At least your post gives me hope for a discussion with other rational and respectful people who dig motocross.
Racer92
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4/20/2010 8:44am


Im respectfilled and like to watch motorcross !
GuyB
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4/20/2010 8:49am
huck wrote:
You're stupid and you should shut the fuck up.
Huck, I thought you said you learned your lesson last week?
4/20/2010 8:52am Edited Date/Time 4/20/2010 8:58am
bents wrote:
With all these discussions of injuries (track design, power of 450, etc, etc), what about this one: -a max 250cc displacement rule, period. -ONE class, no...
With all these discussions of injuries (track design, power of 450, etc, etc), what about this one:
-a max 250cc displacement rule, period.
-ONE class, no more 250/450
-all the best guys race against each other
-4 heats of 10 laps each-top 4 go to the main
-1 LCQ-8 laps-top 4 go to main
-30 lap main.

Check it out. No more worrying about pointing out. No more east west. Pourcel, Canard, et al can race against RV, RD, JS in SX. The privateers can run a 2 stroke to save cash and be competitive. WHEN injuries occur, it doesn't decimate the class and the competitiveness. The tracks have to be built on a slightly more smaller scale so we hope guys will stay safer, and perhaps be punished less for a little whisky throttle unlike the severity of the same affliction on the 450.

Think of the battles that could have occurred over the past year with everyone on a 250 cc scoot. I think it would be epic and as it has been pointed out-its about the racing-not how many jumps there are in 51 seconds.

Plus we get more racing, the track doesn't get as chewed up, and each heat race alone would like a main event! The biggest bonus might be the return of a little braap action on the stadium floor.

Call me stupid, tell me to shut the fuck up, but this one might be the winner winner chicken dinner baby!
You sir are a genius. No way near stupid, good luck!
RCC104
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4/20/2010 8:53am



No way! You need to keep the premier 350 class!!!! Oops i mean 450.... getting a few years ahead of myself...


huck
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4/20/2010 9:02am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 10:16pm
huck wrote:
You're stupid and you should shut the fuck up.
GuyB wrote:
Huck, I thought you said you learned your lesson last week?
I did...SIR.



Did you not read his last comment?



Bents wrote: "Call me stupid, tell me to shut the fuck up..."



In addition to what I said in "jest", I also gave specific reasons WHY his ideas wouldn't work. Maybe your time would be better spent by putting a lease on BobbyM....



Tiki
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4/20/2010 9:19am
Track safety.
Somehow, some way when ever there is an injury on the track everyone is quick to blame the track. Must be the Tracks fault! Explain slipping and falling in the bathroom? Is that the bathtubs fault? So even on level ground people blame everything but the cause.

How many riders negotiate the track successfully?
How many laps are done by those riders successfully?

One or two people go down while trying to push the limits of gravity, physics and good old traction and all of a sudden its the fault of anything but them?
What about races on flat ground? Tracks fault?

I have always said it like this and it would be good to remember it.

"As long as people have been making things to go hog wild on, people will."
bents
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4/20/2010 10:14am
Tiki,

I agree 100%. I'm just suggesting it is one factor of many. To me the most important concept here is trying to get all the best one one gate. It absolutely couldn't and shouldn't be done outdoors, but can be done indoors. I understand my proposal has a few holes in it, but there isn't one rational argument that cannot be overcome-in theory. Everyone is quick to shit on the idea without considering what "might be".

727 correctly pointed out that I didn't consider the amount of riders at the back end-those that don't qualify out of the heats. Having thought more about it, this could a workable solution:

Qualifying procedure:
fastest 80 into the night show.

4 heats of 20
top 5 move to main
6 thru 10 go to LCQ-top 5 to main
places 11-15 in each heat go to consolation final
places 16-20 are finished for the night

25 riders in the main-lcq qualifiers in back row for main
20 in consolation final

Out of 80 qualifiers, 65 get at least two races in (heat and main, main and lcq, heat and consolation, or heat, lcq, and main)

final race order:
4 heats
1 lcq
1consolation final
1 main.

right now we have:
4 heats in total
2 lcq
2 main

Everyone gets 2 races, but really, the lcq isn't much of a 2nd opportunity.






HuskyEd
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4/20/2010 10:24am
Tiki wrote:
Track safety. Somehow, some way when ever there is an injury on the track everyone is quick to blame the track. Must be the Tracks fault...
Track safety.
Somehow, some way when ever there is an injury on the track everyone is quick to blame the track. Must be the Tracks fault! Explain slipping and falling in the bathroom? Is that the bathtubs fault? So even on level ground people blame everything but the cause.

How many riders negotiate the track successfully?
How many laps are done by those riders successfully?

One or two people go down while trying to push the limits of gravity, physics and good old traction and all of a sudden its the fault of anything but them?
What about races on flat ground? Tracks fault?

I have always said it like this and it would be good to remember it.

"As long as people have been making things to go hog wild on, people will."
Tiki, I agree with you, but this time on National TV they had Chad Reed pointing out a potential dangerous spot on the track to an official with what appeared to be a Band-Aid fix and not a real effort to correct the problem.

Well we all know what the end result was.
Trent179
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4/20/2010 10:26am
I don't think the format needs to be changed, but they could make the tracks a little more forgiving. They could lay the tracks out the exact same, but just take some of the peaks off the landings. I would do something about lappers. Say, if you get lapped within the first 8 laps, your race is over. There is no easy solution because if they changed one little thing it is a chain reaction with everything else. I hope they take time and try and make the racing safer before we see somebody die on a sx track.
huck
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4/20/2010 10:30am
Hey pussies....

These guys crash and get hurt too....


Tiki
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4/20/2010 11:08am
Tiki wrote:
Track safety. Somehow, some way when ever there is an injury on the track everyone is quick to blame the track. Must be the Tracks fault...
Track safety.
Somehow, some way when ever there is an injury on the track everyone is quick to blame the track. Must be the Tracks fault! Explain slipping and falling in the bathroom? Is that the bathtubs fault? So even on level ground people blame everything but the cause.

How many riders negotiate the track successfully?
How many laps are done by those riders successfully?

One or two people go down while trying to push the limits of gravity, physics and good old traction and all of a sudden its the fault of anything but them?
What about races on flat ground? Tracks fault?

I have always said it like this and it would be good to remember it.

"As long as people have been making things to go hog wild on, people will."
HuskyEd wrote:
Tiki, I agree with you, but this time on National TV they had Chad Reed pointing out a potential dangerous spot on the track to an...
Tiki, I agree with you, but this time on National TV they had Chad Reed pointing out a potential dangerous spot on the track to an official with what appeared to be a Band-Aid fix and not a real effort to correct the problem.

Well we all know what the end result was.
Guys. Remember the Olympics? The ruling on the Luge course came back. Driver Error.

Just because one guy doesn't like something dose not mean it needs to be changed. Ok, so the track is unsafe in one spot. What do you do? Slow down? The whole concept of racing is to have a track, safe, dangerous or not to stop or slow down the riders so talent can overcome the obstacles.

Dont lose sight of the overall goal here, the track is the same for everyone. Even if Chad Reed deems it safe or not.

My thoughts. Qualify 20 riders from timed qualifications the day before. Practice should be returned. The only time the gate drops for a race is the main. Motos should be an hour long or in that area. Not 15/20 laps. Allow endurance fuel and bike setup play more of a part. If that means the bike is breaking, that means the rider has to slow down.

Two motos Saturday night Two hours long with track maintenance in between. Additional elements could be done before the race for crowd value for the show.

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