Upgrade to enjoy this feature!
Vital MX fantasy is free to play, but Premium users receive great benefits. Premium benefits include:
- View and download rider stats
- Pick trends
- Create a private league
- And more!
Only $10 for all 2026 SX, MX, and SMX series.
I stated this above ---If I were the GM at that branch of DCH , I would offer to take his Tacoma back on trade for nearly what he paid and give him a somewhat wholesale price on a replacement truck, but that would have been FAR easier in the initial phases of the problem. But now that there has been threatening letters and mention of attorneys , that's typically where any possible Goodwill adjustments come to a halt.
That being said, it is really odd that it took that long to get his registration-- but I have friends in California that have told me horror stories about the DMV there.
We are online Agents of Pa DMV and we are able to issue the customers registration/owners card immediately upon delivery. As soon as we hit "print" the State debits our checking account and all of the customers taxes and fees are paid immediately from our account and the registration is produced , so this waiting 8 months is certainly a mystery to me. I hope it works out. If you want to PM me his VIN , I can run it thru my system and try to pinpoint where the error was made and hopefully provide enough proof to the CA DMV to reverse their decision on the Branded title. But you probably already did that, if not, shoot it over to me .
Okay just talked to him. There hasn't been any threatening letter or mention of attorneys, he wrote a letter, but hasn't sent it. He's going to go talk to the GM in person to see what the next move is. He said 2 DMV representatives examined the truck. They plugged in diagnostic equipment, turned the truck on and off a few times and are convinced the odometer has been rolled back. They also said they don't believe the dealer did it, they think the previous owner did it to get a better trade in value. I know lots of guys have said call an attorney right off the bat. He hasn't done that, I asked for any advice and that was a popular decision in here, but he hasn't done that. His next move is an in person meeting with the GM to see what he suggests as a resolution. Have you dealt with anything like that ? Who goes after the former owner and how can they prove it ?
Just read your last post, yeah I'll get the vin and pm it to you, Thanks ! I'm curious where this will go, and also what shows up on your end. Wouldn't any discrepancies show up right away at the time of sale ?
Yes, discrepancies should show immediately. The thing about the CarFax reports, Auto-check and all the other history reports, is they are only as accurate as the info given them . In fact, it’s very common that a single vehicle will have vastly different “histories” on the different sources. Had one case where AutoCheck said a truck had Major frame damage , and CarFax showed a perfectly maintained no damage vehicle. We had it on the rack and all my techs looked for frame damage ,found nothing ,so we sent it out to a reputable frame shop for his opinion and he said it was Factory perfect. We helped the customer get the AutoCheck changed and was able to trade it to us at the correct value. So although I am a long time CarFax Certified dealer,those reports are not infallible.
But your son talking face to face with the GM is the right move. In that store ,the GM is the ONLY guy with the horsepower to make something happen. I don’t know Lithias /DCH policies,but we CarFax every vehicle that we appraise before we give a number. Had they done that , it should have been caught before the previous owner traded it. But to prove now that a previous owner did it ,may prove very difficult at best. I believe the DMV made this far worse than it needed to be. Again, in Pa ,it would show an “odometer discrepancy “ not a branded title ,ie. Total Loss, Theft Recovery, Flood damage etc. THOSE are the brandings that really affect value.
We are very big on customer Goodwill and have been for all the years we’ve been in business. Probably why we’ve thrived for 40 years in the same location. Obviously I can’t speak for all dealers , but I believe most of them are good people, at least the ones I’ve known over the years. Certainly there are dicks and con artists in all phases of business ,not just the auto biz,lol .
One last thing. I just got off the phone with a good friend that may be the best Tech in western Pennsylvania ( and he doesn’t work for me dammit ) and I explained what was happening, and he stated immediately that it’s almost impossible to roll back odometers on todays modern vehicles. Highly unlikely a layman would be able to do that , and if he was able,why only go back 15k. Make it worthwhile ,lol. Anyway,anything I can do to help ,I’ll try my best
He bought it from a dealer.
They are responsible for the validity of the product.
Take it back with the DMV data and tell them you want you money back...ALL OF IT...or you're getting an attorney.
The Shop
Free shipping: VITALMX
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Do you honestly believe that the 3rd largest dealer group in the country with 21,000 employees and worth over $ 4.6 Billion dollars are going to give 2 shits about a guy threatening an attorney over a thousand dollar mileage discrepancy, that more than likely was caused by a typo on a CarFax report ? Surely Manny , you know better than that,lol.
His best bet is to do exactly as he’s doing, have a face to face with an actual person that can help resolve the issue. Keep in mind, this would have been a helluva lot easier when this mileage discrepancy first came to light many months ago. Demanding ALL of his money back is ridiculous a year later. Again, 2 or 3 weeks after purchasing it, possibly….
If he comes in with threats, calling everyone thieves, scammers and liars, he ain’t going to get shit. Believe me
As I understand it, they (dood's son) never got the actual title and registration till recently. And through that process found the problem. DCH is very large, it's to their advantage to fix this without attorneys involved. If it can be proven the mileage is accurate and the title clean, would your son want to keep it? They might even offer a similar truck to swap. They don't want the bad publicity. If they don't offer a reasonable fix, he should ask for the district manager's contact info first, from DCH and from Toyota or which ever dealership they are associated with. And contact them in writing. There's always someone "higher up"
TM
I’m gonna agree with everything OldPro has said. There’s a chance the GM at the dealer doesn’t know what’s going on with his truck specifically. Maybe he’s got a shit used car manager and doesn’t know it yet. Maybe even your son goes in and plays dumb and “oh I’m sure there’s an explanation for all this.” But going guns blazing isn’t going to help anything. I know he’s hot and feels betrayed but I promise you he isn’t going to scare them. He needs them to want to help him.
Also as a dealer employee there are good dealers and there are bad dealers, I cannot and will not deny that. I will say here in Colorado you have to be licensed to be a car salesman and the licensing is entirely about legalities of negotiation and marketing of vehicles.
All that said, and with no disrespect to your son, I wouldn’t trust a car salesman or the average sales manager at their word ever in my life. There’s a reason I like buying/leasing new vehicles: warranties and manufacturer financing. Get any used car you want inspected by whoever you want but get it inspected and definitely ask dealers to run a carfax the day you’re trying to buy. It won’t guarantee you won’t have issues, but at least you’ll be as informed as you can be. It’s a lot of money no matter what you’re buying nowadays.
The dealers known about it for awhile and assured him it would be handled so he figured it would take awhile and waited, he had to jump through some hoops along the way, the temporary red one on the windshield expired twice. I guess they didn’t expect it to take so long either. He just recently learned about the title being branded
If that’s the case…
Get an attorney 1st.
These huge dealer groups can be beaten in CA quite easily.
For some reason you’re fixated on the dealer being the one being accused of rolling it back…it’s also possible the dealer got suckered by the auction/PO of the vehicle. However, the difference is that the dealer is responsible for selling a vehicle that meets certain representations as you know. Doesn’t matter who rolled it back-if it was rolled back and the dealer sold it, they should be the ones to eat the loss. It will then be on them to fight the auction/PO.
Now if DMV screwed the pooch by branding it based on a sham investigation, that’s a whole other issue.
Yeah.....that's it....
Personal attacks and lame BS is yours and Lost-little-boys defense.
The sad fact is.... car dealers are scum of the Earth, proven over and over and over ....time after time again. It isn't just my observation....it's a known fact. If someone has a positive view of a vehicle dealer, they just don't know they've been had.
Liars, cheats and thieves. They will fuck you every chance they can.... Every stinking one of them.
.... we agree on this.
The dealer knows they're going to get away with fucking the consumer.
The bigger the dealer group....the deeper the dishonesty and the means to fuck the little guy.
It could be as simple as some $15 an hour kid at JiffyLube entered the ODO wrong in the computer. True story, I’ve seen it happen.
Not fixated at all, a majority of the posters in here assume it was the dealer. I can almost guarantee it was an incorrect mileage posted during a service visit and reported to CarFax . As I’ve stated ,I’ve seen odometer discrepancies on those history reports almost weekly
Exactly what I’ve been saying. But the some of the naysayers are reluctant to acknowledge
Delusional . How can one person harbor so much intense unhappiness?? It’s a shame
The days of “rolling back” are long gone. Now it would be “clocking”, but I’ll digress. Agree 100% nobody in a big auto group is going to entertain that kind of heat.
CARFAX is trash with a really good marketing campaign. Prefer AutoCheck myself. Seen cars that were “clean” on CARFAX have major structural issues and branded titles on AutoCheck.
MagooFan, buyers are worse liars. They lie about their income, their credit score, their debt ratio……
Why is it everybody loves their Realtor and hates their Car Guy? Tell me which one makes more money on a $100K sale? Go ahead, I’ll wait.
Anyway, the day of the slicked back hair, polyester suit, gold chain wearing car guy days are over.
Pit Row
It takes FOREVER, if it is ever resolved. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this.
Honestly, your son’s best bet is to let the dealership “trade” him out of that vehicle.
Which I believe is exactly what's going to transpire. They'll offer a substantial trade amount and discount the replacement, and hopefully resolve this to a happy conclusion. It's certainly how we'd handle it here ....
Although, it DOES shock me a bit that a group like Lithia doesn't have a policy in place that all purchases/trades must have a History report (CarFAx, AutoCheck,etc) performed to catch any issues (clerical,typo or otherwise) before it gets to the end user. We actually have our CarFax History reports posted right on our website for each vehicle we have advertised and included in the customers paperwork. And it only costs us about $ 3,800 / mo to do that
So the dealer has known about it, told him they’d fix it, but hasn’t done anything to fix it 8 months later? Get a lawyer. Either the dealer fucked up and is hoping the problem will just go away, or Carfax made a mistake and the DMV is incompetent. Whatever the case, someone either made a material misrepresentation in selling the car or an administrative error in recording the title, but your son is left with the consequences and a car with ruined resale value. Even if he decides to never sell the car, his insurance won’t pay more than the car is worth. If he owes money, he might end up having to pay off the rest of the debt if the truck ends up in an accident. It’s also more likely that the truck will be totaled out at the lower value.
Your son has been screwed by someone else’s mistake or misrepresentation, but he’s still left dealing with the consequences. Hoping someone else will just fix the problem out of the kindness of their heart has obviously not worked. Get legal assistance.
Lots of good info in here. If nothing else, you and your son may be able to breathe easier if you remember:
-It may be a faulty record from Carfax and the car really only has the mileage the ODO states.
-Even if the ODO was rolled back, it's a Toyota Tacoma. 15K miles are nothing to that truck. Actual performance and resale value are barely changed (if at all).
In the worst-case scenario, it seems pretty cut and dried to me: the dealership sold a branded title vehicle without disclosing it as such. I'm pretty sure they are required to buy back the vehicle for its original purchase price. Good luck getting any damages awarded, however.
Liability and Legal Responsibility for the condition of the vehicle “as sold” lies solely in the hands of the dealer. The dealer that sold this person a car…a car with FALSE and I’d be sure to use the applicable term in this case…”false or misleading data as shown on a legal contract”. Data that has certain and specific legal ramifications…for…and this is according to the State of California…
The Dealer.
The Dealer is SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONDITION OF THE VEHICLE “AS SOLD”.
From the mlg on the odometer to the “certifiable” condition of the vehicle and ALL of its systems…including EPA/DOT/NHTSA certified systems and so-forth.
But, hey…what do I know? You can just ask the state of California or review the docs that are all available thru their websites, right?
Any attempt to say,”We didn’t know” will be answered with…”It was your legal responsibility”. Again, just ask the state.
I know of some great car dealerships. I know of some absolutely awesome auto repair shops.
I’ve got a local Ford dealership that’s gone out of it’s way to help me and my family with service and warranty issues…EVEN AFTER THE WARRANTY MLG has been surpassed…right here local to me and sumdood. San Juan Capo Ford
I have a Ford dealer in the north-state that sold me a Bronco for a song…during The Great Bronco Shortage…& they are great when it comes to service and parts, too. Corning Ford
There are “good & bad” in every business segment.
In my case the guy guessed at the currency exchange the actual mileage ( he was off by 9,000 ) miles. Boom next emissions test Red Flag in the States system.
$75.00 to fix it
No thanks
Keep in mind--from the info given, the DMV didn't issue a branded title until well AFTER the vehicle was sold. It wasn't as if DCH had a branded title on hand and just slipped it thru and had Sumdoods son sign off on it.
Again-- I am NOT an expert in California DMV laws, but I am in Pa,DMV , and this would never have happened here like its being described
It sounds like the "branded title" was not known about until well after the sale. And all this did not start until knowledge of the "branded title" was known. The legal standard is what would a reasonable person do? I don't think he waited a year after he found out. When you buy a vehicle from a dealer there is a very extensive contract they have you sign 15,327 times. This protects them but also has enough information to protect you. If the vehicle they sold you and the contract states very clearly claims to have XYZ miles and a clean title and then you later find out that's not the case, it's a simple breach of contract. They know that and will rectify it. They will probably offer to refund his money and what he spent on the vehicle while he owned it. Or something of other value to compensate him. It's usually the low level sales people that are the scum of the earth. Shit, if my money is based on commission, what do you think I'd do, I'd fucking sell and make money. When you get to the executive level, their interests are very different. Best first step is face to face with GM, if that doesn't work out go next step up. If that doesn't work out, then hire an attorney. Find a "lemon law" attorney. They already know everyone that can make a decision and their connections will make this go away fast.
This is why I'm convinced that we don't know all the information. We still have not learned (or I missed) the specific information that the DMV is using to make their decision. We know there's a mileage discrepancy, but we don't know when that information came to light. Was the information available at the time the vehicle came into possession of dealer? Was the information available at time of purchase? Or was the information hidden and only found by the DMV?
If the mileage discrepancy was on the carfax or autocheck at the time the vehicle was traded in, then everyone involved until the DMV just took everyone's word at face value. I truly sympathize with SumDood's kid. It's an awful situation to find yourself in, but I still just cannot wrap my head around how it's gotten to this point. I would still be super interested in seeing the records for this vehicle.
I went to the DCH website though, and saw that they offer CarFax reports for all the used inventory, so I'm still just completely confused. But I'll make the following assumptions; dealer viewed carfax at time of trade and it didn't have any mileage discrepancies. SumDood's son viewed the CarFax and it had no discrepancies. Information discovered by the DMV led to the branded title. Without knowing what that information is, it may be worth your son reaching out to CarFax.
As of right now, the guy at the dealer was certain it was a clerical error and is "working with the dmv to get it resolved".
The dmv told my son after examining the truck they believe "it's been tampered with, end of story it will never be unbranded". If the dealership can get around that somehow remains to be seen.
So far the people he's dealt with at the dealer have been polite, cordial and seemingly eager to get it resolved, either a reissued clean title or buy the truck back for money spent.
The GM is back from vacation next Tuesday, so holding pattern until then.
If he winds up giving the truck back, he wants ALL the money he has spent on it, not "some" of the money back. How that shakes out with loan interest and insurance money spent remains to be seen. My son has said he likes the truck but if he can't get a clean title it's out. Aaaannd.... he's never buying a used car or truck again. Next vehicle whatever it is will be new lol
Post a reply to: Used truck bought from dealer with rolled back odometer , options ?