Who is Better? Tomac, JS7, RD5 or RV2?

Forty
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4/11/2023 12:59pm

 as usual it becomes a fanboy poll.  

I'm a Dungey fan, so I would put his career against anyone's, however when the end comes to the end Stewart was just better, he just was.  He was a better racer than these other 3. 

It's already been pointed out but should be repeated - Ask any pro this same question - 

 

Taking nothing from the others, but the questions was who's better?

James Stewart

 

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4/11/2023 1:06pm
Forty wrote:
 as usual it becomes a fanboy poll.   I'm a Dungey fan, so I would put his career against anyone's, however when the end comes to the...

 as usual it becomes a fanboy poll.  

I'm a Dungey fan, so I would put his career against anyone's, however when the end comes to the end Stewart was just better, he just was.  He was a better racer than these other 3. 

It's already been pointed out but should be repeated - Ask any pro this same question - 

 

Taking nothing from the others, but the questions was who's better?

James Stewart

 

Define the criteria for "better" if race wins and titles don`t count. I can`t comprehend how those don`t account for the better status. If you are a bigger fan of the guy, that's cool, but best isn't the guy who has less titles, wins or a shorter career than the guy who raced him and is still winning.

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Forty
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4/11/2023 1:15pm
Forty wrote:
 as usual it becomes a fanboy poll.   I'm a Dungey fan, so I would put his career against anyone's, however when the end comes to the...

 as usual it becomes a fanboy poll.  

I'm a Dungey fan, so I would put his career against anyone's, however when the end comes to the end Stewart was just better, he just was.  He was a better racer than these other 3. 

It's already been pointed out but should be repeated - Ask any pro this same question - 

 

Taking nothing from the others, but the questions was who's better?

James Stewart

 

Define the criteria for "better" if race wins and titles don`t count. I can`t comprehend how those don`t account for the better status. If you are...

Define the criteria for "better" if race wins and titles don`t count. I can`t comprehend how those don`t account for the better status. If you are a bigger fan of the guy, that's cool, but best isn't the guy who has less titles, wins or a shorter career than the guy who raced him and is still winning.

Good question! 

better -----  of a more excellent or effective type or quality -- better

OP left a door wide open for everyone to interpret.  

I'm stats guy too, but that's not the only criteria being used here.  

I can't care a lot more, but I will say this, IMO, if we are using statistics as the only criteria, Eli is tops in this group as every time he takes a gate drop, he breaks a record.  

 

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4/11/2023 1:24pm
Forty wrote:
 as usual it becomes a fanboy poll.   I'm a Dungey fan, so I would put his career against anyone's, however when the end comes to the...

 as usual it becomes a fanboy poll.  

I'm a Dungey fan, so I would put his career against anyone's, however when the end comes to the end Stewart was just better, he just was.  He was a better racer than these other 3. 

It's already been pointed out but should be repeated - Ask any pro this same question - 

 

Taking nothing from the others, but the questions was who's better?

James Stewart

 

Define the criteria for "better" if race wins and titles don`t count. I can`t comprehend how those don`t account for the better status. If you are...

Define the criteria for "better" if race wins and titles don`t count. I can`t comprehend how those don`t account for the better status. If you are a bigger fan of the guy, that's cool, but best isn't the guy who has less titles, wins or a shorter career than the guy who raced him and is still winning.

Forty wrote:
Good question!  better -----  of a more excellent or effective type or quality -- better OP left a door wide open for everyone to interpret.   I'm...

Good question! 

better -----  of a more excellent or effective type or quality -- better

OP left a door wide open for everyone to interpret.  

I'm stats guy too, but that's not the only criteria being used here.  

I can't care a lot more, but I will say this, IMO, if we are using statistics as the only criteria, Eli is tops in this group as every time he takes a gate drop, he breaks a record.  

 

What is the barometer for effective? To me effective means closing the deal, right? I know it's all semantics, and with Stew fans, stats don't mean squat. He is the be all, end all of the moto universe, regardless of his win/title totals. 

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The Shop

ExFix407
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4/11/2023 1:24pm

I would guess if you asked the four of them they would all say JS7😝😝😝😝

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Forty
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4/11/2023 1:34pm
Define the criteria for "better" if race wins and titles don`t count. I can`t comprehend how those don`t account for the better status. If you are...

Define the criteria for "better" if race wins and titles don`t count. I can`t comprehend how those don`t account for the better status. If you are a bigger fan of the guy, that's cool, but best isn't the guy who has less titles, wins or a shorter career than the guy who raced him and is still winning.

Forty wrote:
Good question!  better -----  of a more excellent or effective type or quality -- better OP left a door wide open for everyone to interpret.   I'm...

Good question! 

better -----  of a more excellent or effective type or quality -- better

OP left a door wide open for everyone to interpret.  

I'm stats guy too, but that's not the only criteria being used here.  

I can't care a lot more, but I will say this, IMO, if we are using statistics as the only criteria, Eli is tops in this group as every time he takes a gate drop, he breaks a record.  

 

What is the barometer for effective? To me effective means closing the deal, right? I know it's all semantics, and with Stew fans, stats don't mean...

What is the barometer for effective? To me effective means closing the deal, right? I know it's all semantics, and with Stew fans, stats don't mean squat. He is the be all, end all of the moto universe, regardless of his win/title totals. 

Key words --- to me--- effective means closing the deal, right? ----   

That's what makes these polls so much fun, they are good bench racing, but really no way to conclude.  Everyone has a different idea of what happened, how it was impactful to them, where they were in their lives, who they personally relate to, etc.  

That's why your approach is the soundest, because it's real/fact, however OP didn't ask who has the best stats, he asked who is better.

I usually stay out of these threads, damn!

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RCMartin406
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4/11/2023 3:17pm

Well there you have it, looks like JS7 won 🏆 😝 can we close this poll now!

IMG 4263

 

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4/11/2023 4:27pm
Well there you have it, looks like JS7 won 🏆 😝 can we close this poll now!  

Well there you have it, looks like JS7 won 🏆 😝 can we close this poll now!

IMG 4263

 

I voted twice for different people just to “mix  it up”

numbers might be skewed 

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4/11/2023 6:47pm
Well there you have it, looks like JS7 won 🏆 😝 can we close this poll now!  

Well there you have it, looks like JS7 won 🏆 😝 can we close this poll now!

IMG 4263

 

 No point in letting facts get in the way of a good story...

mxb2
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4/11/2023 7:09pm
Well there you have it, looks like JS7 won 🏆 😝 can we close this poll now!  

Well there you have it, looks like JS7 won 🏆 😝 can we close this poll now!

IMG 4263

 

 No point in letting facts get in the way of a good story...

Yep. , Vital poll vs. Ama record books 🤷
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BigRedMachine
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4/11/2023 10:17pm Edited Date/Time 4/11/2023 10:50pm

This 1 minute clip of Villopoto showing Bubba the fast way around Washougal should end the debate of who's better, Blitzed him like he was going backwards. Here's a good one that shows what a Beast Villopoto was in Supercross and MX

 

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WCRider
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4/11/2023 11:23pm

Dungey was the perfect racer. Not the faster but the smarter. James the faster but not the best Racer (Kind of Herlings) so the best faster racer to me was Villo. Tomac 2022/2023 is at the same level. 

Not suprised James is leading the poll. So many people who know nothing about this sport. The entertaining way, that's the only way that they watch the sport. "Bring the pop corn honey this is raceday." Yeah James was entertaining for sure but not the best. This is not only a raw speed thing. This is not a Dragster dude.

How can you deny that except with your ignorance ? James the best ? srsly I don't get it.

 
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BigRedMachine
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4/11/2023 11:42pm
WCRider wrote:
Dungey was the perfect racer. Not the faster but the smarter. James the faster but not the best Racer (Kind of Herlings) so the best faster...

Dungey was the perfect racer. Not the faster but the smarter. James the faster but not the best Racer (Kind of Herlings) so the best faster racer to me was Villo. Tomac 2022/2023 is at the same level. 

Not suprised James is leading the poll. So many people who know nothing about this sport. The entertaining way, that's the only way that they watch the sport. "Bring the pop corn honey this is raceday." Yeah James was entertaining for sure but not the best. This is not only a raw speed thing. This is not a Dragster dude.

How can you deny that except with your ignorance ? James the best ? srsly I don't get it.

 

I think over time, people have forgot how unrelenting and fast Villopoto was, maybe by the slightest margin James Stewart was willing to hang it out more, but he paid for it in spectacular yard sales over and over in his career and I wouldn't necessarily call that being faster, but more riding over your head.  Villopoto could run the same speed, but had way fewer Dirt Naps compared to Stewart.  I would have loved to see Ricky Carmichael and Ryan Villopoto race against each other in SX and MX in their primes, would have been a Bloodbath for the championships, but they missed each other by a few years.   I was at Budds Creek for the 2007 MXON when Villopoto dominated on a 250, he definitely announced to the world that he was going to be the new Boss for a few years in American SX and MX. 

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8500rpm
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4/12/2023 12:10am

In most racing, motorsports it's always the same, is the old guy from 'back in the days' faster than the current guy. The old guys are sure he was faster, since they are from 'that era'. Same goes in auto racing, just look at the comparisons on dudes from the 70s. Those drunk playboys could probably not survive in todays cars.

This will get people angry, but as training methods/regime has improved immensely, is it possible that yesterdays heroes couldn't get to the standard todays Nr2 is at? The thruth is, we don't know, but we can all have our opinions. 

JS7 was/is amazing, will always be remembered, but with todays standard would he shine the same way? I don't know and would be surprised if anyone does. Why not enjoy the era we are in instead of compare to years gone by...

James Hunt and Stirling Moss was faster than Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen! I know, because they were gnarly fast dudes!!!

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4/12/2023 1:19am
8500rpm wrote:
In most racing, motorsports it's always the same, is the old guy from 'back in the days' faster than the current guy. The old guys are...

In most racing, motorsports it's always the same, is the old guy from 'back in the days' faster than the current guy. The old guys are sure he was faster, since they are from 'that era'. Same goes in auto racing, just look at the comparisons on dudes from the 70s. Those drunk playboys could probably not survive in todays cars.

This will get people angry, but as training methods/regime has improved immensely, is it possible that yesterdays heroes couldn't get to the standard todays Nr2 is at? The thruth is, we don't know, but we can all have our opinions. 

JS7 was/is amazing, will always be remembered, but with todays standard would he shine the same way? I don't know and would be surprised if anyone does. Why not enjoy the era we are in instead of compare to years gone by...

James Hunt and Stirling Moss was faster than Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen! I know, because they were gnarly fast dudes!!!

People go with what they grew up with and most generally won't sway away from their hero from yesteryear, I was in denial when James went up against RV, granted Stewart was not in his absolute prime, RV raced him and beat him on multiple occasions fair and square.

It's funny the fans will argue until the end of time however guys like RC will be the first one to admit there are multiple riders today who are more talented than him and he's mentioned names before, Webb and others say Herlings is the fastest man on the planet and fans will argue otherwise just how it is.

It's like Rossi vs Marquez, you have to be in denial to think Rossi is/was a better rider than Marquez.

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David934
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4/12/2023 1:30am

Richard Automichael 

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4/12/2023 2:09am Edited Date/Time 4/12/2023 2:15am

For all the Dungey fanboys, Villopoto won FOUR STRAIGHT 450 supercross titles against him while he was in his prime.  End of debate.  And also dominated him outdoors when he was healthy.  For some reason people have selective memory when it comes to how dominant Villopoto was.

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RCMartin406
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4/12/2023 5:55am
This 1 minute clip of Villopoto showing Bubba the fast way around Washougal should end the debate of who's better, Blitzed him like he was going...

This 1 minute clip of Villopoto showing Bubba the fast way around Washougal should end the debate of who's better, Blitzed him like he was going backwards. Here's a good one that shows what a Beast Villopoto was in Supercross and MX

 

1 minute!? 😂 now let me go pull all the JS videos of James showing RV and everybody else the fast way around the track!? Nah, that would take way too long!😂 

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ExFix407
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4/12/2023 8:14am

95604C49-B690-4183-9B05-061A2AEB2D3B.jpeg?VersionId=VGzIGJo6.SghOpQq6b

 This thread needs pictures 

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ExFix407
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4/12/2023 8:49am

EA04DAB5-776B-4337-81DD-2280BBA3E1DA.jpeg?VersionId=cc5EAL27l7WM1gkZEEX4f4N1UmTV

 

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ExFix407
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F3A5D676-D825-4D3A-A284-73AA1256ABCE

 

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Magoofan
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4/12/2023 12:27pm

I wonder how far Villo would have gone if he hadn't gotten burned out.

 

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JN137
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4/12/2023 1:49pm Edited Date/Time 4/12/2023 1:50pm

This is always a loaded question.

But.. Since the question is "Who is better?" and not "Who has had a better career?" I just can't see how Dungey is even included in this conversation. Absolutely no disrespect to RD as he is without a doubt one of the best to ever do it. However, if you put him head-to-head on a gate with either of the other 3 mentioned here, he's simply not winning. And apart from the hypothetical, in reality he never beat RV for a title a single time (Excluding injury).

People seem to forget - RV has never lost an outdoor title, 250 or 450 and won 4 straight SX titles after getting hurt during the 2010 season (could've been 5 in a row had that not happened, but that is irrelevant). Every single one of those 450 titles were with RD on the gate, not to mention the other guys also listed in this thread. He was virtually unbeaten during his entire career while healthy.

 

Replace RD in this group with RC and we have a real debate. 

 

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BigRedMachine
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4/12/2023 2:51pm Edited Date/Time 4/12/2023 2:53pm
This 1 minute clip of Villopoto showing Bubba the fast way around Washougal should end the debate of who's better, Blitzed him like he was going...

This 1 minute clip of Villopoto showing Bubba the fast way around Washougal should end the debate of who's better, Blitzed him like he was going backwards. Here's a good one that shows what a Beast Villopoto was in Supercross and MX

 

1 minute!? 😂 now let me go pull all the JS videos of James showing RV and everybody else the fast way around the track!? Nah...

1 minute!? 😂 now let me go pull all the JS videos of James showing RV and everybody else the fast way around the track!? Nah, that would take way too long!😂 

There's almost 24 minutes in that one video showing RV doggin Bubba relentlessly in Supercross and Motocross and beating him for titles. JS7 fans always like to say he was past his prime, but the same could be said about Ricky Carmichael who managed to beat him in every AMA Championship they raced each other in. You put James Stewart up against RC in the early 2000's, when RC was in his Prime on his Honda and it wouldn't have even been close. 

ricky-carmichael-robert-fawcett.jpg?VersionId=tbXimtJ

 

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ExFix407
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4/12/2023 4:07pm

BD370DC0-B986-48FD-AAC7-1DF1DDAB654C

 This guys a badass!

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KYFHO699
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4/12/2023 4:26pm Edited Date/Time 4/12/2023 4:29pm
150ripper wrote:
Wild to imagine that Eli let a couple of SX titles slip away. Might be looking at 9 total 450 titles if he hadn't. Yet he's...

Wild to imagine that Eli let a couple of SX titles slip away. Might be looking at 9 total 450 titles if he hadn't. Yet he's still in this discussion. 

Like when Musquin pulled over for Dungey?  Team tactics are BS IMO - win it on your own or don’t race (Not Dungey’s fault).  That led to the infamous bunching up race.  Down vote all you want, facts are facts.

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RCMartin406
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4/12/2023 6:28pm Edited Date/Time 4/12/2023 6:47pm
This 1 minute clip of Villopoto showing Bubba the fast way around Washougal should end the debate of who's better, Blitzed him like he was going...

This 1 minute clip of Villopoto showing Bubba the fast way around Washougal should end the debate of who's better, Blitzed him like he was going backwards. Here's a good one that shows what a Beast Villopoto was in Supercross and MX

 

1 minute!? 😂 now let me go pull all the JS videos of James showing RV and everybody else the fast way around the track!? Nah...

1 minute!? 😂 now let me go pull all the JS videos of James showing RV and everybody else the fast way around the track!? Nah, that would take way too long!😂 

There's almost 24 minutes in that one video showing RV doggin Bubba relentlessly in Supercross and Motocross and beating him for titles. JS7 fans always like...

There's almost 24 minutes in that one video showing RV doggin Bubba relentlessly in Supercross and Motocross and beating him for titles. JS7 fans always like to say he was past his prime, but the same could be said about Ricky Carmichael who managed to beat him in every AMA Championship they raced each other in. You put James Stewart up against RC in the early 2000's, when RC was in his Prime on his Honda and it wouldn't have even been close. 

ricky-carmichael-robert-fawcett.jpg?VersionId=tbXimtJ

 

The only videos they showed was 2009 LV where James had already won 11 races that year and didn’t need to beat RV to win the title at the last race of the season, a couple of races from 2012, and 2013 outdoors where James tore his ACL at A1 and rode the entire year with a torn ACL. Again, context means a lot. I like RV and he was a badass, but don’t act like RV dominated JS his entire career. 
 

edit. Now I just rewatched the entire video and there’s actually more races of James passing and dogging RV. Geez did we watch the same video lol 😂 

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