How do the playoffs work?

semifreeguy
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3/7/2023 11:13am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
The SMX thing has been in the works for a number of years.  And with a $1 million championship prize for the 450 class and a...

The SMX thing has been in the works for a number of years. 

And with a $1 million championship prize for the 450 class and a 500k championship prize for the 250 class, I think the riders will take it seriously and rank it above the MXdN and one off events. 

The money certainly helps. But damn, now my point about a 5th place rider winning seems more relevant. Would not want to be the guy that...

The money certainly helps. But damn, now my point about a 5th place rider winning seems more relevant. Would not want to be the guy that busted his ass all year, won a championship, then had a couple of off races in the three round "world championship" and missed out on a million dollars. I guess it's basically the monster energy cup all over. 

GrapeApe wrote:
You wouldn't want to have a chance to race for $1 million at the end of the year, because you might not win it? Am I...

You wouldn't want to have a chance to race for $1 million at the end of the year, because you might not win it? Am I following your logic correctly?

No you are not. I'm saying you might feel slighted not making as much prize money, while working much harder, for the real championship. It just feels like it undermines the Supercross and Motocross season and champions. I guess I like it better as just being a one-off event like the Monster Energy Cup, but it's practically the same thing. They just decided to brand it as the world championship of both disciplines. 

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semifreeguy
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3/7/2023 11:17am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Yes. The combined top 20 in points head into the first playoff rounds with regular points. 1st = 26pts 2nd= 23pts 3rd= 21pts 22nd = 1pt...

Yes.

The combined top 20 in points head into the first playoff rounds with regular points.

1st = 26pts

2nd= 23pts

3rd= 21pts

22nd = 1pt.

The first playoff round then pays regular points, the second playoff round pays double points, and the final round pays triple points.

Points awarded are based on the 26, 23, 21, 19, 18, 17 ..., 1

RichieW13 wrote:
Wait, you're saying that riders get points prior to round 1, based on their point standings entering the playoffs?  Is that confirmed anywhere?  I don't see...

Wait, you're saying that riders get points prior to round 1, based on their point standings entering the playoffs?  Is that confirmed anywhere?  I don't see it in the video you posted nor on the SMX website.

-MAVERICK- wrote:
They go into the SMX playoffs with a set amount of points. If not, they wouldn't need to be seeded, they would just need to qualify. ...

They go into the SMX playoffs with a set amount of points. If not, they wouldn't need to be seeded, they would just need to qualify. 

Screenshot 20230307-132903.png?VersionId=AoJtksvFMPw4ZfFbsP1kMTatA

Screenshot 20230307-133529.png?VersionId=KoJNNGDwnFeyuCPEMl9UVxxBEUx

From the press release:

https://www.feldentertainment.com/supermotocross-world-championship-det…

Screenshot 20230307-133753

Let's see the announcers try to follow the points on this! We know how well that goes in the triple crown. 

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GrapeApe
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3/7/2023 11:19am
The money certainly helps. But damn, now my point about a 5th place rider winning seems more relevant. Would not want to be the guy that...

The money certainly helps. But damn, now my point about a 5th place rider winning seems more relevant. Would not want to be the guy that busted his ass all year, won a championship, then had a couple of off races in the three round "world championship" and missed out on a million dollars. I guess it's basically the monster energy cup all over. 

That rider that busted his ass all year would have been paid for those wins/titles and this is a third opportunity for everyone.  I would agree...

That rider that busted his ass all year would have been paid for those wins/titles and this is a third opportunity for everyone.  I would agree with you if they eliminated the SX and Outdoor titles and had it come down to these three races, but the original titles continue to stand alone.....so it's an added Bonus for everyone who qualifies and an added Bonus for us as fans

I get that. I was more making the point that the monetary prize is the highest for the three round "championship". The actual Supercross and Motocross...

I get that. I was more making the point that the monetary prize is the highest for the three round "championship". The actual Supercross and Motocross championships are much more grueling and much more difficult to win. Seems that's where the winners should be rewarded the most. 

I get what you're saying but without the playoff there wouldn't be extra money to funnel into MX and SX. NBC was sold on the idea of the playoff and sweetened the TV package accordingly.

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-MAVERICK-
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3/7/2023 11:53am
The money certainly helps. But damn, now my point about a 5th place rider winning seems more relevant. Would not want to be the guy that...

The money certainly helps. But damn, now my point about a 5th place rider winning seems more relevant. Would not want to be the guy that busted his ass all year, won a championship, then had a couple of off races in the three round "world championship" and missed out on a million dollars. I guess it's basically the monster energy cup all over. 

That rider that busted his ass all year would have been paid for those wins/titles and this is a third opportunity for everyone.  I would agree...

That rider that busted his ass all year would have been paid for those wins/titles and this is a third opportunity for everyone.  I would agree with you if they eliminated the SX and Outdoor titles and had it come down to these three races, but the original titles continue to stand alone.....so it's an added Bonus for everyone who qualifies and an added Bonus for us as fans

I get that. I was more making the point that the monetary prize is the highest for the three round "championship". The actual Supercross and Motocross...

I get that. I was more making the point that the monetary prize is the highest for the three round "championship". The actual Supercross and Motocross championships are much more grueling and much more difficult to win. Seems that's where the winners should be rewarded the most. 

The monetary prize for winning the SMX championship is not just for those 3 rounds. The riders have a better chance at winning it if they participate in both the SX series as well as the MX series. The more points they can score across both, the higher they'll be seeded. 

They were also rewarded by Feld and MX Sports for winning the SX/MX title, but it was a minimal amount compared to the new $1 million prize awarded to the SMX champion. I would assume those respective championship payouts will still be paid.

Winning the SMX championship isn't any easier by any means. You have to get there in one piece after racing SX and MX.

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The Shop

semifreeguy
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3/7/2023 3:01pm
That rider that busted his ass all year would have been paid for those wins/titles and this is a third opportunity for everyone.  I would agree...

That rider that busted his ass all year would have been paid for those wins/titles and this is a third opportunity for everyone.  I would agree with you if they eliminated the SX and Outdoor titles and had it come down to these three races, but the original titles continue to stand alone.....so it's an added Bonus for everyone who qualifies and an added Bonus for us as fans

I get that. I was more making the point that the monetary prize is the highest for the three round "championship". The actual Supercross and Motocross...

I get that. I was more making the point that the monetary prize is the highest for the three round "championship". The actual Supercross and Motocross championships are much more grueling and much more difficult to win. Seems that's where the winners should be rewarded the most. 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
The monetary prize for winning the SMX championship is not just for those 3 rounds. The riders have a better chance at winning it if they...

The monetary prize for winning the SMX championship is not just for those 3 rounds. The riders have a better chance at winning it if they participate in both the SX series as well as the MX series. The more points they can score across both, the higher they'll be seeded. 

They were also rewarded by Feld and MX Sports for winning the SX/MX title, but it was a minimal amount compared to the new $1 million prize awarded to the SMX champion. I would assume those respective championship payouts will still be paid.

Winning the SMX championship isn't any easier by any means. You have to get there in one piece after racing SX and MX.

I mostly agree but it seems like the "better chance" at winning if they participate in both SX and MX is very minimal, almost to where it won't have a real impact for the top riders. It seems like a number one rider could only race Supercross and still have a very good chance of winning SMX. But who knows with that overcomplicated clusterfuck points system. 

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DonM
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3/7/2023 3:36pm
I get that. I was more making the point that the monetary prize is the highest for the three round "championship". The actual Supercross and Motocross...

I get that. I was more making the point that the monetary prize is the highest for the three round "championship". The actual Supercross and Motocross championships are much more grueling and much more difficult to win. Seems that's where the winners should be rewarded the most. 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
The monetary prize for winning the SMX championship is not just for those 3 rounds. The riders have a better chance at winning it if they...

The monetary prize for winning the SMX championship is not just for those 3 rounds. The riders have a better chance at winning it if they participate in both the SX series as well as the MX series. The more points they can score across both, the higher they'll be seeded. 

They were also rewarded by Feld and MX Sports for winning the SX/MX title, but it was a minimal amount compared to the new $1 million prize awarded to the SMX champion. I would assume those respective championship payouts will still be paid.

Winning the SMX championship isn't any easier by any means. You have to get there in one piece after racing SX and MX.

I mostly agree but it seems like the "better chance" at winning if they participate in both SX and MX is very minimal, almost to where...

I mostly agree but it seems like the "better chance" at winning if they participate in both SX and MX is very minimal, almost to where it won't have a real impact for the top riders. It seems like a number one rider could only race Supercross and still have a very good chance of winning SMX. But who knows with that overcomplicated clusterfuck points system. 

If you call starting the playoffs with about a 15pt deficit minimal....so yes if you race both series you will have a better chance because you will have more points to start the series with....it's really not that difficult...riders will be seeded 1-20 and given SX points to begin the playoffs with, regular points given at first round, double points for the second round and triple for the final...not complicated at all....Over $3m paid out over three races makes it way worth it for the riders.

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5/4/2023 4:52pm

Assuming these SMX rounds will still be just a one-day format, how will they be determining gate picks?  Strictly based on overall points?  Timed qualifying?  Heat races?  There won’t be much time in a one-day program for qualifying since there will be four 20+1 motos and two LCQ’s.

Also, I personally don’t like the double and triple points.  I think it puts too much emphasis on the 2nd and especially the 3rd one.  Say rider A wins the first 2, then gets taken out, has a mechanical, DNF, etc in the 3rd one.  Rider B who got zero points in the first 2 manages to win the 3rd one can conceivably win the whole kit and caboodle?

RichieW13
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5/4/2023 5:02pm
Assuming these SMX rounds will still be just a one-day format, how will they be determining gate picks?  Strictly based on overall points?  Timed qualifying?  Heat...

Assuming these SMX rounds will still be just a one-day format, how will they be determining gate picks?  Strictly based on overall points?  Timed qualifying?  Heat races?  There won’t be much time in a one-day program for qualifying since there will be four 20+1 motos and two LCQ’s.

Also, I personally don’t like the double and triple points.  I think it puts too much emphasis on the 2nd and especially the 3rd one.  Say rider A wins the first 2, then gets taken out, has a mechanical, DNF, etc in the 3rd one.  Rider B who got zero points in the first 2 manages to win the 3rd one can conceivably win the whole kit and caboodle?

Even if they have timed qualifying, there should be plenty of time in the schedule.  Motocross does the exact same thing, except with longer motos.

 

The double and triple points is just a way to make sure each round is more important than the last.  Kind of like American team sports.  If you DNF a race, them's the breaks.  The San Francisco 49ers' QB blew out his arm in the championship game last year.  It sucks, but it is what it is.

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5/4/2023 5:14pm Edited Date/Time 5/4/2023 5:17pm
Assuming these SMX rounds will still be just a one-day format, how will they be determining gate picks?  Strictly based on overall points?  Timed qualifying?  Heat...

Assuming these SMX rounds will still be just a one-day format, how will they be determining gate picks?  Strictly based on overall points?  Timed qualifying?  Heat races?  There won’t be much time in a one-day program for qualifying since there will be four 20+1 motos and two LCQ’s.

Also, I personally don’t like the double and triple points.  I think it puts too much emphasis on the 2nd and especially the 3rd one.  Say rider A wins the first 2, then gets taken out, has a mechanical, DNF, etc in the 3rd one.  Rider B who got zero points in the first 2 manages to win the 3rd one can conceivably win the whole kit and caboodle?

RichieW13 wrote:
Even if they have timed qualifying, there should be plenty of time in the schedule.  Motocross does the exact same thing, except with longer motos.  ...

Even if they have timed qualifying, there should be plenty of time in the schedule.  Motocross does the exact same thing, except with longer motos.

 

The double and triple points is just a way to make sure each round is more important than the last.  Kind of like American team sports.  If you DNF a race, them's the breaks.  The San Francisco 49ers' QB blew out his arm in the championship game last year.  It sucks, but it is what it is.

Yeah, but outdoors doesn’t have to build and remove a track, rent a venue/stadium, pay for venue staff for security, parking, concessions, etc. which all costs by the hour.  Artificial/man made tracks require more maintenance between races which takes time.  I’m also sure Feld will want to incorporate at least an equal if not greater opening ceremonies, pyro, wine, dine and 69 show for these races.  I still think with all of the typical SX show stuff, combined with 4 20+1 motos, LCQ’s and whatever they are doing for qualifying will be a significantly busier and longer schedule than what we have seen in SX.

Most American pro sports are team sports and don’t have anywhere near as cut-throat a championship system as this appears to be.  Your star player gets hurt and can’t play, but the game goes on and the team still has a chance to keep playing without you.  

RichieW13
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5/4/2023 5:19pm
Yeah, but outdoors doesn’t have to build and remove a track, rent a venue/stadium, pay for venue staff for security, parking, concessions, etc. which all costs...

Yeah, but outdoors doesn’t have to build and remove a track, rent a venue/stadium, pay for venue staff for security, parking, concessions, etc. which all costs by the hour.  Artificial/man made tracks require more maintenance between races which takes time.  I’m also sure Feld will want to incorporate at least an equal if not greater opening ceremonies, pyro, wine, dine and 69 show for these races.  I still think with all of the typical SX show stuff, combined with 4 20+1 motos, LCQ’s and whatever they are doing for qualifying will be a significantly busier and longer schedule than what we have seen in SX.

Most American pro sports are team sports and don’t have anywhere near as cut-throat a championship system as this appears to be.  Your star player gets hurt and can’t play, but the game goes on and the team still has a chance to keep playing without you.  

They don't build the track on Saturday.

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5/4/2023 5:43pm
It doesn't work. Just wait until a 5th place rider has an incredible playoff and wins the "championship". How should the top guys who battled all...

It doesn't work. Just wait until a 5th place rider has an incredible playoff and wins the "championship". How should the top guys who battled all year and won the real championships feel? 

This has nothing to do with sport, and everything to do with have a single big event at the end of the year.  What you described is considered a feature.  Going into the Championship Final, 10+ riders will have a chance to be champion. 

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5/4/2023 5:46pm
Yeah, but outdoors doesn’t have to build and remove a track, rent a venue/stadium, pay for venue staff for security, parking, concessions, etc. which all costs...

Yeah, but outdoors doesn’t have to build and remove a track, rent a venue/stadium, pay for venue staff for security, parking, concessions, etc. which all costs by the hour.  Artificial/man made tracks require more maintenance between races which takes time.  I’m also sure Feld will want to incorporate at least an equal if not greater opening ceremonies, pyro, wine, dine and 69 show for these races.  I still think with all of the typical SX show stuff, combined with 4 20+1 motos, LCQ’s and whatever they are doing for qualifying will be a significantly busier and longer schedule than what we have seen in SX.

Most American pro sports are team sports and don’t have anywhere near as cut-throat a championship system as this appears to be.  Your star player gets hurt and can’t play, but the game goes on and the team still has a chance to keep playing without you.  

RichieW13 wrote:

They don't build the track on Saturday.

Where did I say they build the track on Saturday?  You made the comparison to outdoor MX.  My point was that SX in general, and even more so these playoff rounds require much more time, labor and resources to run than a couple tractors, volunteer flaggers and a moto-tees trailer.  All of that plays a part in the SX promoter cramming as much as they can in to a very short window for the event overall.  

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-MAVERICK-
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5/4/2023 5:50pm
Assuming these SMX rounds will still be just a one-day format, how will they be determining gate picks?  Strictly based on overall points?  Timed qualifying?  Heat...

Assuming these SMX rounds will still be just a one-day format, how will they be determining gate picks?  Strictly based on overall points?  Timed qualifying?  Heat races?  There won’t be much time in a one-day program for qualifying since there will be four 20+1 motos and two LCQ’s.

Also, I personally don’t like the double and triple points.  I think it puts too much emphasis on the 2nd and especially the 3rd one.  Say rider A wins the first 2, then gets taken out, has a mechanical, DNF, etc in the 3rd one.  Rider B who got zero points in the first 2 manages to win the 3rd one can conceivably win the whole kit and caboodle?

The gate picks for the Top 20 in combined SX and MX points will still be determined by qualifying. 

Riders who are 21st to 30th in combined points will race a LCQ with the top 2 finishers moving on to the motos.

RichieW13
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5/4/2023 5:53pm
Yeah, but outdoors doesn’t have to build and remove a track, rent a venue/stadium, pay for venue staff for security, parking, concessions, etc. which all costs...

Yeah, but outdoors doesn’t have to build and remove a track, rent a venue/stadium, pay for venue staff for security, parking, concessions, etc. which all costs by the hour.  Artificial/man made tracks require more maintenance between races which takes time.  I’m also sure Feld will want to incorporate at least an equal if not greater opening ceremonies, pyro, wine, dine and 69 show for these races.  I still think with all of the typical SX show stuff, combined with 4 20+1 motos, LCQ’s and whatever they are doing for qualifying will be a significantly busier and longer schedule than what we have seen in SX.

Most American pro sports are team sports and don’t have anywhere near as cut-throat a championship system as this appears to be.  Your star player gets hurt and can’t play, but the game goes on and the team still has a chance to keep playing without you.  

RichieW13 wrote:

They don't build the track on Saturday.

Where did I say they build the track on Saturday?  You made the comparison to outdoor MX.  My point was that SX in general, and even...

Where did I say they build the track on Saturday?  You made the comparison to outdoor MX.  My point was that SX in general, and even more so these playoff rounds require much more time, labor and resources to run than a couple tractors, volunteer flaggers and a moto-tees trailer.  All of that plays a part in the SX promoter cramming as much as they can in to a very short window for the event overall.  

You mentioned concern about there being enough time to run qualifying, LCQ and motos in one day.  I said motocross does it, so SMX should be able to do it.  You said, "yeah, but outdoors doesn't have to build and remove a track".

 

My point is that building the track has no impact on the scheduling of events on race day..

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JustMX
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5/4/2023 9:05pm Edited Date/Time 5/5/2023 4:27am
resetjet wrote:
What is the purpose of the double and triple points?  Any top 10 rider theoretically has a shot at 1 million.  A guy like barcia may...

What is the purpose of the double and triple points?  Any top 10 rider theoretically has a shot at 1 million.  A guy like barcia may really benefit from a setup like this.  Come in with say 18 pts,  get 18 first round,  36 2nd and 78 third for a win because one of the top 3 is hurt and the other two tangle in the first turn and he will get 150 pts total.  Just seems weird.  Sorta like bowling.  

For fun - I made a list where I assumed the sx/mx season ends with the top 10 as-is, and then radomized the first/second/third playoff. I...

For fun - I made a list where I assumed the sx/mx season ends with the top 10 as-is, and then radomized the first/second/third playoff.

I did points with the traditional structure, and the new new structure, and it wasn't wildly different in my opinion

With the way the randomizer worked, Tomac did awful in the playoffs, where-as Colt Nichols caught fire, and Webb stayed super consistent

smx1

smx2

New point structure would see Colt as champion, where-as the old would have him in second

As you can see, the new point structure impacted 40% of the field, and in my opinion, is impacting it in the right way - with it being a series within a series.

Nichols was the best at the playoffs, the only reason Webb would have won on the traditional scoring is because of his better seeding position

 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
Your point on the top 10 having a shot at the SMX title remains, but I thought it would be cool to look at the points...

Your point on the top 10 having a shot at the SMX title remains, but I thought it would be cool to look at the points from 2022. 

Using Nichols as an example there's a high likelihood that he would start the SMX playoffs at the bottom of the rankings given that he's currently on an SX only contract and probably skipping outdoors.

He currently has 84pts which gives him an average of 12pts per race. He didn't score any points at Daytona since he sat the event out. Now assuming he completes the series and continues to average 12pts he would end the SX series with 192pts. 

That would more than likely still give him enough point to qualify for SMX. 

The format also gives the guys that only participate in MX a shot to qualify if they're better MX riders since there's more points available to score. 

Let's look at 2022.

Last year Tomac finished SX with 359pts and MX with 546pts. 

That would have given him the number 1 seed for accumulating a total of 905pts. He'd start SMX with 26pts. 

Despite finishing 6th in the SX points standings, Chase Sexton finished the year with a total of 831pts. Enough for him to be the 2nd seeded rider. He'd start SMX with 23pts. 

Jason Anderson 790pts. SMX 21pts.

Barcia 605pts. SMX 19pts.

Ken Roczen 527pts. SMX 18pts.

Aaron Plessinger 419pts. SMX 17pts. 

Malcolm Stewart 375pts. SMX 16pts.

Christian Craig 373pts. SMX 15pts.

Ryan Dungey 359pts. SMX 14pts.

Shane McElrath 314pts. SMX 13pts. 

Marvin Musquin 305pts. SMX 12pts.

Cooper Webb 278pts. SMX 11pts.

Brandon Hartranft 267pts. SMX 10pts.

Alex Martin 258pts. SMX 9pts.

Joey Savatgy 249pts. SMX 8pts.

Dean Wilson 215pts. SMX 7pts. 

Fredrik Noren 204pts. SMX 6pts.

Benny Bloss 204pts. SMX 5pts.

Dylan Ferrandis 184pts. SMX 4pts. 

Garrett Marchbanks 180pts. SMX 3pts. 

Battling for the last 2 spots in the LCQ.

Riders who finished 21-30 in combined points. 

Justin Brayton 176pts. 

Marshall Weltin 140pts. 

Kyle Chisholm 129pts. 

Justin Bogle 116pts. 

Justin Starling 103pts.

Ryan Breece 103pts. 

Max Anstie 100pts.

Antonio Cairoli 97pts.

Vince Friese 96pts. 

Case Clason 79pts.

Impressive that you put that much work into your arguement.

I am not sure Nichols is the best rider to use as an example.

If he does not race mx and some of the riders way down in the points do, they could easily pass him in points and nichols could very well be in the lcq group trying to get into the mains every week.

Riders like Benny bloss, Fredrick Norden, and Dylan ferrandis can all drop him down by running some mx rounds.

Jett Lawrence is probably going to drop him down some spots. So I could see it being close.

 

Now a question.

What about Justin Cooper. He has pointed out of 250sx, but will be running 250 mx and could earn enough points to be seated for 250sx.

Can he race the playoffs in the 250 class or is he out for that class in smx?

-MAVERICK-
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5/4/2023 9:49pm
JustMX wrote:
Impressive that you put that much work into your arguement. I am not sure Nichols is the best rider to use as an example. If he...

Impressive that you put that much work into your arguement.

I am not sure Nichols is the best rider to use as an example.

If he does not race mx and some of the riders way down in the points do, they could easily pass him in points and nichols could very well be in the lcq group trying to get into the mains every week.

Riders like Benny bloss, Fredrick Norden, and Dylan ferrandis can all drop him down by running some mx rounds.

Jett Lawrence is probably going to drop him down some spots. So I could see it being close.

 

Now a question.

What about Justin Cooper. He has pointed out of 250sx, but will be running 250 mx and could earn enough points to be seated for 250sx.

Can he race the playoffs in the 250 class or is he out for that class in smx?

Nichols is currently sitting on 139pts., with two rounds to go. He'll have to put in some impressive results to score maximum points if he hopes to be seeded in the Top 20 in combined points for SMX. He likely won't be doing outdoors, so I'm guessing he'll qualify anywhere from 21st to 30th with the points he'll have scored in SX.

He'll need to battle for one of the two final spots in the LCQ race at all three events.  

Jett Hunter? I assume you mean Jett Lawrence. Hunter is racing the 250 class, and Jett should score enough points during the 450 nationals to qualify himself in the Top 20 in combined points for SMX. He's in a situation where he'll qualify for both classes, but a rider can only race one class. He's already stated that he won't drop to the 250 again after moving up. Either way, his chances of winning the 250 SMX or 450 SMX title would/will be very slim.   

Justin Cooper can and will race SMX in the 250 class. 

He pointed out the 250 SX class, not the 250 MX or SMX class. SMX is a hybrid series, and sitting out SX puts him at a disadvantage. 

The nationals offer a lot more points up for grabs. However, the chances are that he'll still be seeded lower than guys like Hunter Lawrence, Deegan, Hampshire, Smith, Kitchen, Vohland, Vialle, etc., seeing as they all scored an additional 100+ points in supercross and will most likely score a lot of points outdoors as well.  

IMO, that's one of the more interesting stories to follow this summer. The same goes for Jo Shimoda. One sat out SX completely, and the other only raced a few rounds. It'll be interesting to see how high those two can climb the seeding ladder. 

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JustMX
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5/5/2023 4:20am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Nichols is currently sitting on 139pts., with two rounds to go. He'll have to put in some impressive results to score maximum points if he hopes...

Nichols is currently sitting on 139pts., with two rounds to go. He'll have to put in some impressive results to score maximum points if he hopes to be seeded in the Top 20 in combined points for SMX. He likely won't be doing outdoors, so I'm guessing he'll qualify anywhere from 21st to 30th with the points he'll have scored in SX.

He'll need to battle for one of the two final spots in the LCQ race at all three events.  

Jett Hunter? I assume you mean Jett Lawrence. Hunter is racing the 250 class, and Jett should score enough points during the 450 nationals to qualify himself in the Top 20 in combined points for SMX. He's in a situation where he'll qualify for both classes, but a rider can only race one class. He's already stated that he won't drop to the 250 again after moving up. Either way, his chances of winning the 250 SMX or 450 SMX title would/will be very slim.   

Justin Cooper can and will race SMX in the 250 class. 

He pointed out the 250 SX class, not the 250 MX or SMX class. SMX is a hybrid series, and sitting out SX puts him at a disadvantage. 

The nationals offer a lot more points up for grabs. However, the chances are that he'll still be seeded lower than guys like Hunter Lawrence, Deegan, Hampshire, Smith, Kitchen, Vohland, Vialle, etc., seeing as they all scored an additional 100+ points in supercross and will most likely score a lot of points outdoors as well.  

IMO, that's one of the more interesting stories to follow this summer. The same goes for Jo Shimoda. One sat out SX completely, and the other only raced a few rounds. It'll be interesting to see how high those two can climb the seeding ladder. 

jett hunter......no more posting after midnight after having dozed off

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5/5/2023 4:23am

    Damn Mav, you got this playoff thang figured out !  Great work Sir !

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RichieW13
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5/5/2023 9:08am

    Damn Mav, you got this playoff thang figured out !  Great work Sir !

It's still bonkers to me that the TV broadcast has spent almost no time talking about the playoffs.  The stuff Mav mentioned seems like it would be great for the dead spots during the SX broadcast.

 

Last week they spent about 10 seconds by showing a graphic that listed the guys currently in the top-20 bubble (I think just for 450) for the playoffs.  That is about the extent of playoff discussion I remember seeing on the TV broadcast all year.


 

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-MAVERICK-
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5/5/2023 9:27am
RichieW13 wrote:
It's still bonkers to me that the TV broadcast has spent almost no time talking about the playoffs.  The stuff Mav mentioned seems like it would...

It's still bonkers to me that the TV broadcast has spent almost no time talking about the playoffs.  The stuff Mav mentioned seems like it would be great for the dead spots during the SX broadcast.

 

Last week they spent about 10 seconds by showing a graphic that listed the guys currently in the top-20 bubble (I think just for 450) for the playoffs.  That is about the extent of playoff discussion I remember seeing on the TV broadcast all year.


 

I think the broadcast will start talking about it more once outdoors begins. We'll have riders coming back injuries, Justin Cooper starting at the bottom of the rankings from having to sit out SX from having pointed out of the 250 class, riders dropping down the ranking order because they're SX only, mediocre SX riders that are solid MX riders, etc.

Currently all they have to talk about is the combined rankings for the 250 class. 

Still, you would think they'd start talking about potential storylines and get fans engaged and looking forward to the upcoming MX season. 

Some people don't like the SMX thing, but I think it's interesting. 

Current Top 10 250 Combined Rankings.

Screenshot 20230505-121908

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RichieW13
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5/5/2023 9:38am
RichieW13 wrote:
It's still bonkers to me that the TV broadcast has spent almost no time talking about the playoffs.  The stuff Mav mentioned seems like it would...

It's still bonkers to me that the TV broadcast has spent almost no time talking about the playoffs.  The stuff Mav mentioned seems like it would be great for the dead spots during the SX broadcast.

 

Last week they spent about 10 seconds by showing a graphic that listed the guys currently in the top-20 bubble (I think just for 450) for the playoffs.  That is about the extent of playoff discussion I remember seeing on the TV broadcast all year.


 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
I think the broadcast will start talking about it more once outdoors begins. We'll have riders coming back injuries, Justin Cooper starting at the bottom of...

I think the broadcast will start talking about it more once outdoors begins. We'll have riders coming back injuries, Justin Cooper starting at the bottom of the rankings from having to sit out SX from having pointed out of the 250 class, riders dropping down the ranking order because they're SX only, mediocre SX riders that are solid MX riders, etc.

Currently all they have to talk about is the combined rankings for the 250 class. 

Still, you would think they'd start talking about potential storylines and get fans engaged and looking forward to the upcoming MX season. 

Some people don't like the SMX thing, but I think it's interesting. 

Current Top 10 250 Combined Rankings.

Screenshot 20230505-121908

I think there are a lot of people who watch SX who probably don't even know that there are playoffs this year.  And there are even more people who have no idea how the playoffs work.  (I had to spend some time to get it figured out 90%.)

 

I'm not sure if I like the playoffs or not, but I am open to seeing how it goes this year.  And definitely, like you, I think it will be interesting to watch things shake out this summer.

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RichieW13
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5/5/2023 9:41am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Nichols is currently sitting on 139pts., with two rounds to go. He'll have to put in some impressive results to score maximum points if he hopes...

Nichols is currently sitting on 139pts., with two rounds to go. He'll have to put in some impressive results to score maximum points if he hopes to be seeded in the Top 20 in combined points for SMX. He likely won't be doing outdoors, so I'm guessing he'll qualify anywhere from 21st to 30th with the points he'll have scored in SX.

He'll need to battle for one of the two final spots in the LCQ race at all three events.  

Jett Hunter? I assume you mean Jett Lawrence. Hunter is racing the 250 class, and Jett should score enough points during the 450 nationals to qualify himself in the Top 20 in combined points for SMX. He's in a situation where he'll qualify for both classes, but a rider can only race one class. He's already stated that he won't drop to the 250 again after moving up. Either way, his chances of winning the 250 SMX or 450 SMX title would/will be very slim.   

Justin Cooper can and will race SMX in the 250 class. 

He pointed out the 250 SX class, not the 250 MX or SMX class. SMX is a hybrid series, and sitting out SX puts him at a disadvantage. 

The nationals offer a lot more points up for grabs. However, the chances are that he'll still be seeded lower than guys like Hunter Lawrence, Deegan, Hampshire, Smith, Kitchen, Vohland, Vialle, etc., seeing as they all scored an additional 100+ points in supercross and will most likely score a lot of points outdoors as well.  

IMO, that's one of the more interesting stories to follow this summer. The same goes for Jo Shimoda. One sat out SX completely, and the other only raced a few rounds. It'll be interesting to see how high those two can climb the seeding ladder. 

" Either way, his chances of winning the 250 SMX or 450 SMX title would/will be very slim.   "

 

Why do you say that?  Don't the points reset at the end of the MX season, so the number 1 seed only has 26 points?  If Jett has a good MX season, he could be top 10 in 450 points, and that would put him in good position for the playoffs.

Or are you saying his chances are slim because you don't think he's ready to compete for podiums in the 450 class this year?

-MAVERICK-
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5/5/2023 10:53am
RichieW13 wrote:
" Either way, his chances of winning the 250 SMX or 450 SMX title would/will be very slim.   "   Why do you say that?  Don't...

" Either way, his chances of winning the 250 SMX or 450 SMX title would/will be very slim.   "

 

Why do you say that?  Don't the points reset at the end of the MX season, so the number 1 seed only has 26 points?  If Jett has a good MX season, he could be top 10 in 450 points, and that would put him in good position for the playoffs.

Or are you saying his chances are slim because you don't think he's ready to compete for podiums in the 450 class this year?

Yes, the number one seed going into the SMX playoffs will start with 26 points.

Looking back, saying that he has a very slim chance at winning the SMX title were not the right words. What I meant was that it will be a very difficult task for him to pull off.

I said that because chances are that Tomac, Sexton, Anderson, Plessinger, etc. will all have great outdoor seasons ranking them high on the list. Obviously that's not guaranteed. I'm just basing things off last year.  

Tomac and Sexton already have 338pts and 320pts with two SX rounds to go before outdoors starts. 

Last year the nationals had a maximum of 600pts you could score. Tomac scored 546pts. Sexton scored 539pts. Anderson 440pts. This year the maximum points available is 550pts. 

Jett is starting the 450 SMX rankings with zero points, so he has a steep hill to climb. 

I have no doubt that Jett can finish in the top 10 in combined points even if he only races MX. With how depleted the 450 field is heading into outdoors it will only help boost his points total.

With how solid Tomac, Sexton, Barcia, Roczen, and Webb have all been this SX season I don't see why that would change come the SMX playoffs. At this moment it's difficult to imagine Jett beating all of them consistently across the 3 SMX playoffs this fall. Of course my opinion could change after seeing how he does outdoors. 

Personally if Sexton and Tomac stay healthy throughout the summer, I think the SMX title will go to one one of those two. 

I'm a fan of Jett so I'm looking forward to see how he'll do. 

2022 Top 10 Combined Points 450 Class 

Tomac 905pts.

Sexton 831pts.

Anderson 790pts. 

Barcia 605pts. 

Roczen 527pts.

Plessinger 419pts.

Stewart 375pts. 

Craig 373pts. 

Dungey 359pts. 

McElrath 314pts.

BobbyMyers
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5/5/2023 11:26am
RichieW13 wrote:
I looked at the website, and I think I understand most of it, but not sure. https://supermotocross.com/faqs/ Qualifiers: A. Top 20 in points qualify for playoffs...

I looked at the website, and I think I understand most of it, but not sure.

https://supermotocross.com/faqs/

Qualifiers:

A. Top 20 in points qualify for playoffs. (I think this is combined SX-MX points, but not sure.)

B. 21 through 30 in points qualify for LCQ.

C. Main event or MX Overall winners who aren't in group A qualify for LCQ.

 

At each of the 3 playoff rounds, the riders from group B and C will race in an LCQ, with the top two qualifying for the main event.

 

The main event is a 2-moto format, with riders being scored using "Olympic" scoring.  Riders earn points based on overall finish.

 

Here's where I am not at all confident about the plan:

The first 2 playoff rounds are being called "playoff rounds" and the final is being called "World Championship Final".    Do all 3 playoff rounds award the same points, and the champion is the rider with the most points?  Or is the champion somehow based on the winner of Final round?  If that's the case, what are the points for in round 1 and 2?  

If the champ is just determined by most points, does that mean we are going to end up with a champion cruising around in 7th place in the final moto to protect his championship?

 

Anybody else have any other insight I missed?

 

Does it matter? I mean Deegan will probably win at least 2 of these. 

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RichieW13
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5/5/2023 11:44am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Yes, the number one seed going into the SMX playoffs will start with 26 points. Looking back, saying that he has a very slim chance at...

Yes, the number one seed going into the SMX playoffs will start with 26 points.

Looking back, saying that he has a very slim chance at winning the SMX title were not the right words. What I meant was that it will be a very difficult task for him to pull off.

I said that because chances are that Tomac, Sexton, Anderson, Plessinger, etc. will all have great outdoor seasons ranking them high on the list. Obviously that's not guaranteed. I'm just basing things off last year.  

Tomac and Sexton already have 338pts and 320pts with two SX rounds to go before outdoors starts. 

Last year the nationals had a maximum of 600pts you could score. Tomac scored 546pts. Sexton scored 539pts. Anderson 440pts. This year the maximum points available is 550pts. 

Jett is starting the 450 SMX rankings with zero points, so he has a steep hill to climb. 

I have no doubt that Jett can finish in the top 10 in combined points even if he only races MX. With how depleted the 450 field is heading into outdoors it will only help boost his points total.

With how solid Tomac, Sexton, Barcia, Roczen, and Webb have all been this SX season I don't see why that would change come the SMX playoffs. At this moment it's difficult to imagine Jett beating all of them consistently across the 3 SMX playoffs this fall. Of course my opinion could change after seeing how he does outdoors. 

Personally if Sexton and Tomac stay healthy throughout the summer, I think the SMX title will go to one one of those two. 

I'm a fan of Jett so I'm looking forward to see how he'll do. 

2022 Top 10 Combined Points 450 Class 

Tomac 905pts.

Sexton 831pts.

Anderson 790pts. 

Barcia 605pts. 

Roczen 527pts.

Plessinger 419pts.

Stewart 375pts. 

Craig 373pts. 

Dungey 359pts. 

McElrath 314pts.

All of Craig's points last year came from outdoors.  Seems like Jett should be at least as good as Craig was.  So theoretically he could enter the playoffs about 11 points down of whoever the points leader is. 


Though I agree that it Sexton and Tomac are the front runners.  (Not a big leap for that.)

 

-MAVERICK-
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5/25/2023 11:30am

New Update:

Pre-Race conference just announced a change and since East region had 10 rounds they'll drop a score. 

-MAVERICK-
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5/25/2023 11:31am

22nd place in the 450 standings pays 25k.

8th place in the 450 standings pays 100k. 

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zookrider62!
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5/25/2023 12:09pm Edited Date/Time 5/25/2023 12:12pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:

New Update:

Pre-Race conference just announced a change and since East region had 10 rounds they'll drop a score. 

did they give more info on how that would work, or what round would be dropped? Seems pretty amatuer hour to decide that one round wont count when they knew the whole time that they would be uneven.

 

Also wonder if this means we will see one less, or one more E/W showdown to make them align next year.

RichieW13
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5/25/2023 12:12pm Edited Date/Time 5/25/2023 12:13pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:

New Update:

Pre-Race conference just announced a change and since East region had 10 rounds they'll drop a score. 

did they give more info on how that would work, or what round would be dropped? Seems pretty amatuer hour to decide that one round wont...

did they give more info on how that would work, or what round would be dropped? Seems pretty amatuer hour to decide that one round wont count when they knew the whole time that they would be uneven.

 

Also wonder if this means we will see one less, or one more E/W showdown to make them align next year.

Usually, "dropping a score" means each riders' lowest score is dropped.  (Which is still a bit of an advantage for the 250 East riders, but less of an advantage than counting all 10 rounds.)

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-MAVERICK-
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5/25/2023 12:15pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:

New Update:

Pre-Race conference just announced a change and since East region had 10 rounds they'll drop a score. 

did they give more info on how that would work, or what round would be dropped? Seems pretty amatuer hour to decide that one round wont...

did they give more info on how that would work, or what round would be dropped? Seems pretty amatuer hour to decide that one round wont count when they knew the whole time that they would be uneven.

 

Also wonder if this means we will see one less, or one more E/W showdown to make them align next year.

They didn't elaborate on it. They simply said they'll take one of their 250 score away. 

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