Two Stroke Lovers - Start your Drooling

AJ
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9/15/2009 10:53pm
AJ
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933
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Lowell, IN, USA
9/15/2009 10:58pm
an 08 model KX250AF i was racing last weekend

Swede
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Uppsala, SE
9/15/2009 11:01pm
You guys sure do some awesome stuff, AJ. Kudos to you for keeping the 2T movement alive and kicking!
PaleBlue
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6/16/2009
Location
Essex, GB
9/16/2009 2:19am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:11am
I just don't get the facination for bikes from manufacturers who are not interested in YOU!

Two stroke fans should buy new from the manufacturers who still make them - Thats KTM , YAMAHA, TM and HUSQUVARNA (in Europe SUZUKI!).

The Honda shit is a blind alley and they deserve to be shunned until the day they shrivel and die! Angry

The Shop

Style
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31
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9/14/2009
Location
Albuquerque, NM, USA
9/16/2009 5:18am
Please do a service suzuki RM250 in the RMZ250 chassis Smile
Mr.Moto
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42
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Location
Des Moine, IA, USA
9/16/2009 5:20am
True though This bike is white, not red. And it says PowerPlant on the shrouds. Looks like the only place it still shows Honda is on the TJ seat cover.
AJ
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Lowell, IN, USA
9/16/2009 6:37am
Style wrote:
Please do a service suzuki RM250 in the RMZ250 chassis Smile
i plan to..

i wouldnt mind doing a nice used one as well..
and have had a few guys say they were sending thier RMZ chassis and rM 250 enginer,
just hasnt happned yet.

i havnt got around to doing a "new " one .as a Service Suzuki model

one of the big hurdles is the suzuki parts are considerably more than the other OEMs.
the enbine when done "new" from the parts list, is almost 2K over the cost of anyone elses 250.engine done the same way.

it would make a RM250AF model 2 k higher than a CR250AF /KX250AF..
so probably not very good seller..even though i'd love to build one Smile

maybe over the winter..we'll see.

rcannon
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357
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2/11/2007
Location
West Jordan, UT, USA
9/16/2009 6:55am
AJ, do you find any advantages to using a modern 4 stroke chassis, other than the obvious?

My thought being the new 4 t frames are becoming more purposely built than in the past. Something like the new yzf 450 comes to mind.

Oh, and if you really want a cool project, talk one of the plastic manufacturers into building new plastic for our old (2002-2010) yz 250s' Tank and shrouds more specifically.
Adam43
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3310
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Location
WF
9/16/2009 7:19am
Your work is awesome AJ, love the CR250. Why go with the '01 engine though? To me that's a good example of an engine that ran better in people's memory than it actually did. The case reed one felt a lot sleepier, but it always felt stronger overall to me.

That KX250 is perfect.
9/16/2009 7:52am
Style wrote:
Please do a service suzuki RM250 in the RMZ250 chassis Smile
AJ wrote:
i plan to.. i wouldnt mind doing a nice used one as well.. and have had a few guys say they were sending thier RMZ chassis...
i plan to..

i wouldnt mind doing a nice used one as well..
and have had a few guys say they were sending thier RMZ chassis and rM 250 enginer,
just hasnt happned yet.

i havnt got around to doing a "new " one .as a Service Suzuki model

one of the big hurdles is the suzuki parts are considerably more than the other OEMs.
the enbine when done "new" from the parts list, is almost 2K over the cost of anyone elses 250.engine done the same way.

it would make a RM250AF model 2 k higher than a CR250AF /KX250AF..
so probably not very good seller..even though i'd love to build one Smile

maybe over the winter..we'll see.

That's interesting.
My son has a RM65 (KX65 with yellow plastic), and in most instances the same parts are cheaper from Suzuki. Fork springs, for example, are about 1/2 the price.
Mr.Moto
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Location
Des Moine, IA, USA
9/16/2009 7:55am
The bike that THIS thread is about (not the vintage one above) has an engine that has significant 'touches', mores-so than the frame mods. And the old CRF frame above is made for a big four-stroke engine. It makes sense for a CR500 but no sense for a 250 mill. And using that '90's edition CR engine? It is only better in stock form. If you wanna stick to stock engines (as you guys do) use a YZ engine in that thing.
Mr.Moto
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Des Moine, IA, USA
9/16/2009 8:03am
Big Lenny wrote:
Damn!... [img]http://twostrokemotocross.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/249cc-two-stroke.png[/img]
Damn!...

O-ringed head, improved exhaust valve... all things Honda would have done. Nice.
Cygnus
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14845
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Location
Hanover, CO, USA
9/16/2009 8:04am
flarider wrote:
Mr.Moto wrote:
The bike that THIS thread is about (not the vintage one above) has an engine that has significant 'touches', mores-so than the frame mods. And the...
The bike that THIS thread is about (not the vintage one above) has an engine that has significant 'touches', mores-so than the frame mods. And the old CRF frame above is made for a big four-stroke engine. It makes sense for a CR500 but no sense for a 250 mill. And using that '90's edition CR engine? It is only better in stock form. If you wanna stick to stock engines (as you guys do) use a YZ engine in that thing.
The bike this thread is about is way more vintage that AJ's CR500AF. You really should not comment on what you don't have a clue about.
Mr.Moto
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Des Moine, IA, USA
9/16/2009 8:06am
rcannon wrote:
AJ, do you find any advantages to using a modern 4 stroke chassis, other than the obvious? My thought being the new 4 t frames are...
AJ, do you find any advantages to using a modern 4 stroke chassis, other than the obvious?

My thought being the new 4 t frames are becoming more purposely built than in the past. Something like the new yzf 450 comes to mind.

Oh, and if you really want a cool project, talk one of the plastic manufacturers into building new plastic for our old (2002-2010) yz 250s' Tank and shrouds more specifically.
X2,,, on all fronts....
How about Lexan tank covers that contain graphics,,, no wear, no bubbles...
Mr.Moto
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Des Moine, IA, USA
9/16/2009 8:16am
flarider wrote:
Mr.Moto wrote:
The bike that THIS thread is about (not the vintage one above) has an engine that has significant 'touches', mores-so than the frame mods. And the...
The bike that THIS thread is about (not the vintage one above) has an engine that has significant 'touches', mores-so than the frame mods. And the old CRF frame above is made for a big four-stroke engine. It makes sense for a CR500 but no sense for a 250 mill. And using that '90's edition CR engine? It is only better in stock form. If you wanna stick to stock engines (as you guys do) use a YZ engine in that thing.
Cygnus wrote:
The bike this thread is about is way more vintage that AJ's CR500AF. You really should not comment on what you don't have a clue about.
Cygnus. isn't reading fun? Tomorrow we'll work on comprehension.
Cygnus
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9/16/2009 8:18am
OK genius. Why doesn't it make sense for a 250?
CR250Rider
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Moses Lake, WA, USA
9/16/2009 8:33am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:12am
CR250Rider wrote:
Stock pipe?

really?


Very nice bike though, imho
Big Lenny wrote:
I run the stocker on mine with the paint stripped, hard to beat it, the team used to run it too...
RC ran a one-off HRC pipe on his CR250, as I recall, it looked stock but wasn't.

I have a FMF fatty, FMF sst, and a Pro-circuit platinum pipe, as well as the stock pipe.


The Pro-circuit pipe beats them all, the stocker being the worst. night and day difference.


never tried the 3 spacers in the exhaust port-pipe junction.


you guys are entitled to your opinions, but I know what works.



anyways




CR250Rider
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9/16/2009 8:35am
I don't like the allen head fasteners either, they pack with mud too easily.
Mr.Moto
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9/16/2009 10:24am
What cylinder is this pipe test attached to? What Duration changes? Base machined?
Pipe function is directly related to these variables and much more; even squish percentage/clearance, TPS adjustment, Transfer port area etc... I've never had a contemporary two-stroke show a "night and day" difference with ANY pipe. Now with porting and exhaust valve work-Yes.

Perhaps for your cylinder, jetting and static timing you found the best pipe available as is. Now get the stock chamber and cut and weld a few sections to see what you can come up with that is even better.
CR250Rider
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9/16/2009 10:25am


Ernie's CR250
Mr.Moto
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Des Moine, IA, USA
9/16/2009 10:27am
CR250Rider wrote:
I don't like the allen head fasteners either, they pack with mud too easily.
"they pack with mud too easily." Sh*t, Am I in the wrong Forum?
Cygnus
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9/16/2009 10:27am Edited Date/Time 9/16/2009 10:30am
Cygnus wrote:
OK genius. Why doesn't it make sense for a 250?
.
Mr.Moto
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9/16/2009 10:30am
CR250Rider wrote:
[img]http://image.dirtrider.com/f/8932108/141_0510_12z+Honda_CR250+Right_Side_View.jpg[/img] Ernie's CR250


Ernie's CR250
You can bet that ain't your part number pipe..... They win on Saturday and sell you 'a stock replacement' on Monday.

What-ever dimensions that pipe is worked best with HRC cylinder/valve/cases and spark Map. It is as custom as that Seat.
AJ
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Lowell, IN, USA
9/16/2009 10:34am
The posted bike looks
cool,!!!!!!!!!!!!
i wasnt knocking it.in anyway?
.were did this come from?


but no, its not really representative of a 2010 model by any means?
its a used bike kept up well and refurbished,
, o ring head..a clear RC powervalve cover,, with some engine mods,
all very dang cool
and a very nice job.!!

if honda had kept making a CR250R , it would have been in the new generation of frames.,
and hopefully a nrew engine,,as that particular case reed inducted was not one of thier best efforts? even with HEAVY mods it is seldom a true match for other OEMs in stock trim overall.

granted, stock vs stock the 01 CR250 engine doesnt set the world on fire,,but is a good solid performer,, the 02 really was marginal at best unless you only like the bike revved out.

as far as the rest of the *convo* here.
The newer chassis are better permormers.
period ,no contest.
i'd advise anyone , to get real seat time to form an opinion..

as far as my bikes,
i'm obviuosly biased and dont pretend to hide it.?

i have plenty of seat time on my own personal 02 CR250,that has had tons of various mods thrown at it.
and plenty of time on a CRF250 chassis with a 01 CR250 engine in it.
(or 04 for tha matter)

The idea that the new bikes chassies are desgned for a "heavy " CRF250R *
is odd.??
the bikes weigh almost identicle and the front to rear weight biases are exactly
the same.

The subject of the article was a 2010 CR250?
I offer a true 2010 model. CR250
(and yes my decision on which CR250 engine to use ,
or what mods /spoecs go into that model,and some might feel another year of engine better..i tested both, on that CRF250 chassis and made a decision on what i felt worked vbest obverall ,i coul duse either.. they cost the same.)

anyway it is the only *new * CR250 anyone can buy..(unfortuantely)
as such it seemed relevent to the topic of 2010 CR250's?
Wink .

it wasnt some attempt to heads up compare it to a guy doing a beautiful refurbish and making a works bike out of a 02-07...model?
thats awesome.

if you wanted to compare .. the two bikes both probably perform incredibly similar..
with the Service bike handling better. ,,and the modified 02 may have better power,??,

but the amount of difference is far greater in the chassis, than in the engines.
(as either engine can ne modded within half a horse of each other?)

Despite lots of mods and working with it ,, over a couple seasons
I just never *liked* my 02 CR250., others probably dig the bike.

choice is good.

rcannon -
the newer chassis handle better, thats the big advantage.
and most of the chassis design chages are based on better handling and on centralizing mass, this doesnt matter which engine is placed there.
shock rebound dampoing is probably th eonly thing effected by the style of power betwen the powerplants.
and typoically the 2 sttroke engine is lighter,, also improving the bikes overall feel.


as far as YZ projects,
our 2010 YZ250 ,,witll be a new YZ250 engine in a YZF2010 chassis.

The YZ250 is a great bike, but is also in a very very dated chassis.
be nice to update it some?,,and more than just in looks..??


As far as RM250 parts being higher.
they just are.
not sure why,but it is likely simply a matter of production numbers,? they did not produce as many as others, and the parts will cost more.

Suzuki and Kawsaki Models that share parts between themi, would make sense the costs were down on those for either brand.?
(it would be one of the ideas behind them having matching models, keepingcosts down both on bikes and on parts since order quantities would be higher.)






Mr.Moto
Posts
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9/16/2009 10:38am
Cygnus wrote:
OK genius. Why doesn't it make sense for a 250?
Cygnus wrote:
.
The best way to explain it is "have you seen a diminutive two stroke engines placed in the four-stroke specific frames? Take a look at the latest Generation KTM. It was penned for Four-stroke engines. It shows you just how big the Four-stroke engine is. Imagine if they lowered the backbone, Tank and Seat four inches(5" with a NGK Racing short plug...., lowered the radiators three, etc... Instead KTM now produce two-stroke bikes within a compromised platform that does not exploit the finest part of a two-stroke engine.... its compact and Light nature.

CR250Rider
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9/16/2009 10:40am
Cygnus
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14845
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9/16/2009 10:41am
There you have it Mr Moto.

Thanks AJ.
Mr.Moto
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Des Moine, IA, USA
9/16/2009 10:43am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:12am
AJ wrote:
The posted bike looks cool,!!!!!!!!!!!! i wasnt knocking it.in anyway? .were did this come from? but no, its not really representative of a 2010 model by...
The posted bike looks
cool,!!!!!!!!!!!!
i wasnt knocking it.in anyway?
.were did this come from?


but no, its not really representative of a 2010 model by any means?
its a used bike kept up well and refurbished,
, o ring head..a clear RC powervalve cover,, with some engine mods,
all very dang cool
and a very nice job.!!

if honda had kept making a CR250R , it would have been in the new generation of frames.,
and hopefully a nrew engine,,as that particular case reed inducted was not one of thier best efforts? even with HEAVY mods it is seldom a true match for other OEMs in stock trim overall.

granted, stock vs stock the 01 CR250 engine doesnt set the world on fire,,but is a good solid performer,, the 02 really was marginal at best unless you only like the bike revved out.

as far as the rest of the *convo* here.
The newer chassis are better permormers.
period ,no contest.
i'd advise anyone , to get real seat time to form an opinion..

as far as my bikes,
i'm obviuosly biased and dont pretend to hide it.?

i have plenty of seat time on my own personal 02 CR250,that has had tons of various mods thrown at it.
and plenty of time on a CRF250 chassis with a 01 CR250 engine in it.
(or 04 for tha matter)

The idea that the new bikes chassies are desgned for a "heavy " CRF250R *
is odd.??
the bikes weigh almost identicle and the front to rear weight biases are exactly
the same.

The subject of the article was a 2010 CR250?
I offer a true 2010 model. CR250
(and yes my decision on which CR250 engine to use ,
or what mods /spoecs go into that model,and some might feel another year of engine better..i tested both, on that CRF250 chassis and made a decision on what i felt worked vbest obverall ,i coul duse either.. they cost the same.)

anyway it is the only *new * CR250 anyone can buy..(unfortuantely)
as such it seemed relevent to the topic of 2010 CR250's?
Wink .

it wasnt some attempt to heads up compare it to a guy doing a beautiful refurbish and making a works bike out of a 02-07...model?
thats awesome.

if you wanted to compare .. the two bikes both probably perform incredibly similar..
with the Service bike handling better. ,,and the modified 02 may have better power,??,

but the amount of difference is far greater in the chassis, than in the engines.
(as either engine can ne modded within half a horse of each other?)

Despite lots of mods and working with it ,, over a couple seasons
I just never *liked* my 02 CR250., others probably dig the bike.

choice is good.

rcannon -
the newer chassis handle better, thats the big advantage.
and most of the chassis design chages are based on better handling and on centralizing mass, this doesnt matter which engine is placed there.
shock rebound dampoing is probably th eonly thing effected by the style of power betwen the powerplants.
and typoically the 2 sttroke engine is lighter,, also improving the bikes overall feel.


as far as YZ projects,
our 2010 YZ250 ,,witll be a new YZ250 engine in a YZF2010 chassis.

The YZ250 is a great bike, but is also in a very very dated chassis.
be nice to update it some?,,and more than just in looks..??


As far as RM250 parts being higher.
they just are.
not sure why,but it is likely simply a matter of production numbers,? they did not produce as many as others, and the parts will cost more.

Suzuki and Kawsaki Models that share parts between themi, would make sense the costs were down on those for either brand.?
(it would be one of the ideas behind them having matching models, keepingcosts down both on bikes and on parts since order quantities would be higher.)






Good Stuff,,,, Braaaap


The bike this thread is about has a tilted PowerValve/cylinder casting and therefore is not a 2002 but a 2005-2007.

The best way to explain it is "have you seen a diminutive two stroke engines placed in the four-stroke specific frames? Take a look at the latest Generation KTM. It was penned for Four-stroke engines. It shows you just how big the Four-stroke engine is. Imagine if they lowered the backbone, Tank and Seat four inches(5" with a NGK Racing short plug...., lowered the radiators three, etc... Instead KTM now produce two-stroke bikes within a compromised platform that does not exploit the finest part of a two-stroke engine.... its compact and Light nature. That being said,, My next bike is a KTM250sx with a 300 top-end.
Mr.Moto
Posts
42
Joined
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Location
Des Moine, IA, USA
9/16/2009 11:01am
PaleBlue wrote:
I just don't get the facination for bikes from manufacturers who are not interested in YOU! Two stroke fans should buy new from the manufacturers who...
I just don't get the facination for bikes from manufacturers who are not interested in YOU!

Two stroke fans should buy new from the manufacturers who still make them - Thats KTM , YAMAHA, TM and HUSQUVARNA (in Europe SUZUKI!).

The Honda shit is a blind alley and they deserve to be shunned until the day they shrivel and die! Angry
Good point... Honda does not care about our wants yet two-stroke fans are buying 'support' parts from Honda to keep these bikes alive...

KTM250SX with 300 top-end soon. Gonna have to figure out some plastic color other than Orange though.

Didn't notice this humor before,,, in the thread article, down in Additional Mods where it says,
"Throttle – requires only one cable as this engine doesn’t suck as hard as a four-stroke."
AJ
Posts
933
Joined
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Location
Lowell, IN, USA
9/16/2009 11:01am
you have a point,,

but honestly, no offense intended,
what you seem to miss is the the same thing you are trying to illustrate?

I work with all these chassis every day,
and have fo rman yyears..
I ride them,test them, , cut them apart,,

The new 250F chassis are still smaller and more centralized than any of the dated
2 stroke chassis.

(now KTM may be an exceptuin as i do not work with them)

So it doesnt matter that they *could * be EVEN more centralized if designed around a 2 stroke engine.
since they are already years ahaed in development, over the older designs.



Ok- this is fun.
I tell you what mr moto.. Smile
When you build one of these here contraptions,
, let me know how "roomy and large" these new 250F
4 stroke frames are to fit the 250 2 stroke engne..into?
and lets see if you have to run a shorty plug , modify the gas tanks, radiators etc,,
to get them to fit properly where that *huge* 250F engine sat.

sorry man,,but please... you're not preaching to the choir..
your tryng to teach the choir to sing hymns !!! heh
Smile ..
i could MUCH easier put a 250F engine in an older 2 stroke 02 CR250 frame..!!
talk about roomy! it fits right in! i can probsbly fit an XR650 in there.. lol!!



.

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