IS DAVEY COOMBS TURNING OUTDOOR MX INTO FLAT TRACK RACING?

DC
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DC 9/12/2009 7:38am
9/12/2009 7:38am
By the way, the best racing I saw all summer long (other than TV and Steel City's first 250 moto) and possibly the roughest was Loretta Lynn's. Marc Peters and my brother-in-law Jeff Russell let it get really, really rough, and in one week of racing, 34 classes, 102 motos, full gates, 15 to 20 minute motos, they were a total of four ambulance trips, and one of them was my brother because he almost cut his finger off (and having Doc MaGee and the ASMF there for bumps and bruises helps too).

My point is, I believe the rougher the track, the safer track. It keeps speeds down and the riders on their toes. Maybe we should focus more on jump faces for big ruts or kickers for grooming, but let the rest go as long as it doesn't get dusty....

DC
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swizcore
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swizcore 9/12/2009 7:46am
9/12/2009 7:46am
That sounds like the perfect plan DC. Keep the jump faces safe, everything else is fair game. BTW, When will Steel City be up on Allisports?
DanDunes818 9/12/2009 8:07am
9/12/2009 8:07am
DC wrote:
By the way, the best racing I saw all summer long (other than TV and Steel City's first 250 moto) and possibly the roughest was Loretta...
By the way, the best racing I saw all summer long (other than TV and Steel City's first 250 moto) and possibly the roughest was Loretta Lynn's. Marc Peters and my brother-in-law Jeff Russell let it get really, really rough, and in one week of racing, 34 classes, 102 motos, full gates, 15 to 20 minute motos, they were a total of four ambulance trips, and one of them was my brother because he almost cut his finger off (and having Doc MaGee and the ASMF there for bumps and bruises helps too).

My point is, I believe the rougher the track, the safer track. It keeps speeds down and the riders on their toes. Maybe we should focus more on jump faces for big ruts or kickers for grooming, but let the rest go as long as it doesn't get dusty....

DC
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That is exactly what needs to be done.
WhipMeister
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WhipMeister 9/12/2009 8:28am
9/12/2009 8:28am
In the grand scheme of concerns and improvement ideas for the nationals, I'd have to say that this one ranks about 1,645,989

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WORCSRacer
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WORCSRacer 9/12/2009 8:33am
9/12/2009 8:33am
felpro wrote:
I think when it comes to Ricky, isn't it time to let it go ? He's not out injured and has been gone for a while...
I think when it comes to Ricky, isn't it time to let it go ? He's not out injured and has been gone for a while ..... I'm sure he could come out and do the business, but does his absence still need to be seen as a factor ?


He's one of the greats for sure but it does get old hearing the "back in the day" comments.

He moved on at 26 years old because he had nothing left to prove...
Shocker
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Shocker 9/12/2009 8:36am
9/12/2009 8:36am
DC wrote:
By the way, the best racing I saw all summer long (other than TV and Steel City's first 250 moto) and possibly the roughest was Loretta...
By the way, the best racing I saw all summer long (other than TV and Steel City's first 250 moto) and possibly the roughest was Loretta Lynn's. Marc Peters and my brother-in-law Jeff Russell let it get really, really rough, and in one week of racing, 34 classes, 102 motos, full gates, 15 to 20 minute motos, they were a total of four ambulance trips, and one of them was my brother because he almost cut his finger off (and having Doc MaGee and the ASMF there for bumps and bruises helps too).

My point is, I believe the rougher the track, the safer track. It keeps speeds down and the riders on their toes. Maybe we should focus more on jump faces for big ruts or kickers for grooming, but let the rest go as long as it doesn't get dusty....

DC
MX Sports
Agreed 100% Jump faces and anything that is obviously dangerous... Other than that let it go from the crack of dawn until the fat lady sings.
denny360
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denny360 9/12/2009 8:54am
9/12/2009 8:54am
GuyB wrote:
Yeah, Steel City was a real pool table. [img]http://www.vitalmx.com/images/photos/10005/90573800_1252239949.jpg?1252239949[/img] [img]http://www.vitalmx.com/images/photos/10005/87185360_1252239700.jpg?1252239701[/img]
Yeah, Steel City was a real pool table.



hahaha! Best quote of the year! Nice one GB. That track was way gnarley. Yes, I said gnarley. Like 20 ruts in every corner. The riders were doing everything they could to cut the yellow track markers to find smooth lines. Still laughing. Pool table! LOL Ok, maybe it wasnt that funny. Smile
swizcore
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swizcore 9/12/2009 9:25am
9/12/2009 9:25am
Yes Steel City was rough, I almost broke my ankle crossing the track when I got tripped up crossing the ruts.
1
JW381
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JW381 9/12/2009 9:30am
9/12/2009 9:30am
9.5 version 2?
ns503
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ns503 9/12/2009 10:24am
9/12/2009 10:24am
DC wrote:
By the way, the best racing I saw all summer long (other than TV and Steel City's first 250 moto) and possibly the roughest was Loretta...
By the way, the best racing I saw all summer long (other than TV and Steel City's first 250 moto) and possibly the roughest was Loretta Lynn's. Marc Peters and my brother-in-law Jeff Russell let it get really, really rough, and in one week of racing, 34 classes, 102 motos, full gates, 15 to 20 minute motos, they were a total of four ambulance trips, and one of them was my brother because he almost cut his finger off (and having Doc MaGee and the ASMF there for bumps and bruises helps too).

My point is, I believe the rougher the track, the safer track. It keeps speeds down and the riders on their toes. Maybe we should focus more on jump faces for big ruts or kickers for grooming, but let the rest go as long as it doesn't get dusty....

DC
MX Sports
Shocker wrote:
Agreed 100% Jump faces and anything that is obviously dangerous... Other than that let it go from the crack of dawn until the fat lady sings.
And maybe some landings...
oldx
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oldx 9/12/2009 10:33am
9/12/2009 10:33am
DC wrote:
By the way, the best racing I saw all summer long (other than TV and Steel City's first 250 moto) and possibly the roughest was Loretta...
By the way, the best racing I saw all summer long (other than TV and Steel City's first 250 moto) and possibly the roughest was Loretta Lynn's. Marc Peters and my brother-in-law Jeff Russell let it get really, really rough, and in one week of racing, 34 classes, 102 motos, full gates, 15 to 20 minute motos, they were a total of four ambulance trips, and one of them was my brother because he almost cut his finger off (and having Doc MaGee and the ASMF there for bumps and bruises helps too).

My point is, I believe the rougher the track, the safer track. It keeps speeds down and the riders on their toes. Maybe we should focus more on jump faces for big ruts or kickers for grooming, but let the rest go as long as it doesn't get dusty....

DC
MX Sports
That would be a giant step in the right direction. Freeways suck
Madmax31
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Madmax31 9/12/2009 11:38am
9/12/2009 11:38am
DC, I think you're exactly right. You don't want a freeway but there are enough riders getting hurt. Does having a really rough track really shake up the order that much...I don't think so the cream will rise to the top no matter what the conditions.

jmar
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jmar 9/12/2009 12:20pm
9/12/2009 12:20pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:08am
GuyB wrote:
Yeah, Steel City was a real pool table. [img]http://www.vitalmx.com/images/photos/10005/90573800_1252239949.jpg?1252239949[/img] [img]http://www.vitalmx.com/images/photos/10005/87185360_1252239700.jpg?1252239701[/img]
Yeah, Steel City was a real pool table.



denny360 wrote:
hahaha! Best quote of the year! Nice one GB. That track was way gnarley. Yes, I said gnarley. Like 20 ruts in every corner. The riders...
hahaha! Best quote of the year! Nice one GB. That track was way gnarley. Yes, I said gnarley. Like 20 ruts in every corner. The riders were doing everything they could to cut the yellow track markers to find smooth lines. Still laughing. Pool table! LOL Ok, maybe it wasnt that funny. Smile
I like the fact that you are not one of those guys that always talks about the "Good Old Days".


Tell me,


How would you rate the tracks of today verses the tracks of your time?
LouDog
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LouDog 9/12/2009 12:33pm
9/12/2009 12:33pm
Leave them rough this is Moto-X right, Iv'e been to every national this year it sure separates everyone it shows who is training and who isn't.
denny360
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denny360 9/12/2009 4:11pm
9/12/2009 4:11pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:08am
GuyB wrote:
Yeah, Steel City was a real pool table. [img]http://www.vitalmx.com/images/photos/10005/90573800_1252239949.jpg?1252239949[/img] [img]http://www.vitalmx.com/images/photos/10005/87185360_1252239700.jpg?1252239701[/img]
Yeah, Steel City was a real pool table.



denny360 wrote:
hahaha! Best quote of the year! Nice one GB. That track was way gnarley. Yes, I said gnarley. Like 20 ruts in every corner. The riders...
hahaha! Best quote of the year! Nice one GB. That track was way gnarley. Yes, I said gnarley. Like 20 ruts in every corner. The riders were doing everything they could to cut the yellow track markers to find smooth lines. Still laughing. Pool table! LOL Ok, maybe it wasnt that funny. Smile
jmar wrote:
I like the fact that you are not one of those guys that always talks about the "Good Old Days". Tell me, How would you rate...
I like the fact that you are not one of those guys that always talks about the "Good Old Days".


Tell me,


How would you rate the tracks of today verses the tracks of your time?
Hmm lets see. I raced Nationals from 89 to 96 and like today, they all varied considerably in their "roughness". There were alot of races where they would smooth out the track in a lot spots between motos. They didnt always leave it rough all day. I think the biggest difference tho is the dirt. Any rider who rode the Nats back in the 90s can attest, there were alot of dry and dusty races.

When I was racing, Hangtown was brutal choppy and dry. Troy got real dusty in the back section but it was mostly jumps. Gainesville had the sand at the top, but man it got dry and choppy down by the road. Glen Helen was ALWAYS a ball buster (that track was actually my last Nat in 96, I had enuf and went AX'ing).

Dry clay gets a different kind of rough. Big curb edge bumps and holes get chipped away when it becomes concrete hard. The riders today really dont see that kind of track because the promotors and tv dont want the dust so they bring in all this sand and sawdust. By doing this you see the tracks become kind of similar in their dirt. Not all of them, but some.

Dont get me wrong, 90 percent of the tracks this season were rough and crazy challenging. Its just a much different challenge then blasting down a straightaway with dust in the air while bouncing off chopped out curbs at 5th gear on a screaming tiddler.

I didnt make it to all the races this year, but like all of you, Im glued to the pc watching. The only tracks I thought were too smooth were both motos at Millville (it was a freeway all day, STOP BUILDING THE HOMEMADE INSIDE AND OUTSIDE BERMS, IT DOESNT WORK!), probably the opening 250 moto at Southwick (it never looked like it got as rough but the crazy ruts EVERYWHERE looked like a huge challenge) and the speedway that now is Unadilla (Im old school & long for the days of tall grass with a foot of sawdust hidden in it & tight winding corners).

The definite rough ones were Glen Helen (you couldnt have paid me to take a lap at the end of the day, crazy rough and fast), Red Bud (I wasnt there, but I shed a tear that I didnt show up for the 2-stroke race, wow, what a track), Texas ( I prob saw more of the track home on my pc than those of you that were there). And Steel City (20 lines it seemed in every corner with huge holes in most of the ruts).

Another thing this year that was missing was the heat! It was probably the coolest summer of racing in history. In the end, it was a great season of racing in both classes. The ones truly complaining about the tracks are the idiots sitting at home on the computers. So with that said, 2009 MX was the best in a long time in a lot of ways and its only gonna get better. SX only is for pussies. Smile

calimxer91
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calimxer91 9/12/2009 4:28pm
9/12/2009 4:28pm
What about Gatorback?hehe.Good post.
swizcore
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swizcore 9/12/2009 4:32pm
9/12/2009 4:32pm
Love that last sentence Denny. Smile
gsxrcr28
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gsxrcr28 9/12/2009 4:41pm
9/12/2009 4:41pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:08am
swizcore wrote:
Love that last sentence Denny. Smile
MC,KW,JS & CR wont like it. Wink

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croom mx
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croom mx 9/12/2009 5:44pm
9/12/2009 5:44pm
I didnt READ all the post but I can tell you that you CAN NOT make a mX TRACK into a flat track, Flat track is a little boring and easy! Unless your are going about 140 mph! That's when the FUN starts that's why you cant compare MX to FLAT TracK.!
DanDunes818 9/12/2009 6:40pm
9/12/2009 6:40pm
croom mx wrote:
I didnt READ all the post but I can tell you that you CAN NOT make a mX TRACK into a flat track, Flat track is...
I didnt READ all the post but I can tell you that you CAN NOT make a mX TRACK into a flat track, Flat track is a little boring and easy! Unless your are going about 140 mph! That's when the FUN starts that's why you cant compare MX to FLAT TracK.!
Croom.. I wasn't saying that litteraly just was an extreme example to make a point. lol.
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jmar 9/12/2009 8:54pm
9/12/2009 8:54pm
LouDog wrote:
Leave them rough this is Moto-X right, Iv'e been to every national this year it sure separates everyone it shows who is training and who isn't.
I think the biggest difference tho is the dirt. Any rider who rode the Nats back in the 90s can attest, there were alot of dry and dusty races.

That's what stands out the most in my mind. Track prep is much better today than in the past.

Great post and again you have my respect for being honest and not playing the "Old Days" card that would so easy for a former Supercross Champ to play.

Another question that I would really like to hear your opinion on is the length of the seasons. Me personally I would like to see them cut back on the number of both the supercross and outdoor races to give these guys a little time to heal up. I think two from the outdoors and three from the supercross series would be great.

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WhipMeister 9/12/2009 9:04pm
9/12/2009 9:04pm
jmar wrote:
[b]I think the biggest difference tho is the dirt. Any rider who rode the Nats back in the 90s can attest, there were alot of dry...
I think the biggest difference tho is the dirt. Any rider who rode the Nats back in the 90s can attest, there were alot of dry and dusty races.

That's what stands out the most in my mind. Track prep is much better today than in the past.

Great post and again you have my respect for being honest and not playing the "Old Days" card that would so easy for a former Supercross Champ to play.

Another question that I would really like to hear your opinion on is the length of the seasons. Me personally I would like to see them cut back on the number of both the supercross and outdoor races to give these guys a little time to heal up. I think two from the outdoors and three from the supercross series would be great.

You may get your wish with the rumored cutbacks from the OEMs. Unfortunately, that also means fewer paydays.
jmar
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jmar 9/12/2009 9:24pm
9/12/2009 9:24pm
I think if the seasons were shorter you would have fewer Supercross only riders.

I can tell you from a working team members experience that just attending all the events is tough deal and by the end of the season I was hating the races.
DanDunes818 9/13/2009 10:49am
9/13/2009 10:49am
Denny---Totally agree. Supercross only is fine for guys like KW,and Larocco that have been around forever and are trying to extend their careers a few years but to do it when you've only been around a few years(I.E JS7) is pussy sh--it. I think with the new TV packages you'll see a lot less of it though. The new breed of stars are money motivated and more TV meens MO MONEY.
101
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101 9/13/2009 12:46pm
9/13/2009 12:46pm
yosmithy wrote:
It was only a matter of time. Once he brought Rome to it's knees, MX was soon to follow.

Thats funny .
croom mx
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croom mx 9/13/2009 2:29pm
9/13/2009 2:29pm
I did not even read many of the POSTS and I can say how can an MX rider change to FLAT TRACK? Flat Track is easy compared to MX yes that's the TRUTH for you rookies of motocross, Any comments?
feelnjstfine
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feelnjstfine 9/13/2009 3:58pm
9/13/2009 3:58pm Edited Date/Time 9/14/2009 5:40am
croom mx wrote:
I did not even read many of the POSTS and I can say how can an MX rider change to FLAT TRACK? Flat Track is easy...
I did not even read many of the POSTS and I can say how can an MX rider change to FLAT TRACK? Flat Track is easy compared to MX yes that's the TRUTH for you rookies of motocross, Any comments?
Sorry, but flat track is not any easier than motocross, just different. Different mentality, different tecniques, different dangers. Obviously you have never pitched it in at 110 on a peagravel cushion half-mile or you would know how burly that sport is. Speaking of ruffness, those cushion tracks are anything but smooth.And the roost,shhhh,it'll peel the paint off your bike and helmet and nearly rip you off your bike! There's a reason most top notch motocrossers think flat trackers are insane.
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gsxrcr28 9/13/2009 4:51pm
9/13/2009 4:51pm
DanDunes818 wrote:
MX sports(Davey Coombs),Speed T.V,and NBC seem to be turning are sport into flat track.Other then Glen Helen this year every track has been groomed before every...
MX sports(Davey Coombs),Speed T.V,and NBC seem to be turning are sport into flat track.Other then Glen Helen this year every track has been groomed before every moto.It seems like I have to watch the GPs any more if I want to see real motocross. MX is not supposed to be raced on freeways.MX sports says they're doing it to make mx more t.v. viewable.Higher speeds equal higher ratings they say.Outdoor mx is meant to be man and a bike against natural terrain,and not groomed every 5 min. Changing that and keeping the tracks freeways is the equivalent of not letting football players tackle. Sure there's other physical demands and skills in both sports beyond the smooth tracks and the not tackling but the rough tracks and tackling are singly the essence of both sports. The ability to survive the constant beating and excel at it at the same time is what makes you a champion.Seems to me they're trying to commercialize the sport too much. I'm ok with a little change like moving from Sunday to Saturday but the way it's going it won't be long til we see Britney Spears lip syncing at the races in between motos. I like the fact that we get same day coverage now but let's be honest the T.V.coverage isn't all that good. In a 1 hr show we get 17min of one moto and the other 43 min is commercials,interviews and BS hype.I will say the internet coverage on Allisports is the best thing since sliced bread. Thank you very much for that D.C. MX sports says smoothing the tracks out has made better racing. In my opinion that's not true. The absence of JS,RC,RV,and MA is what produced 7 different winners. Overall D.C. you rock and are a hero in my eyes just please give the dozers a day off on Saturday.

How many years in a row do you have to race Outdoors before it is OK to take one off?

Was it pussy sh--t when McGrath and Reed skipped the Outdoors?

Maybe calling riders out anonymously is pussy sh--t?
DanDunes818 9/13/2009 7:03pm
9/13/2009 7:03pm Edited Date/Time 9/13/2009 7:17pm
DanDunes818 wrote:
MX sports(Davey Coombs),Speed T.V,and NBC seem to be turning are sport into flat track.Other then Glen Helen this year every track has been groomed before every...
MX sports(Davey Coombs),Speed T.V,and NBC seem to be turning are sport into flat track.Other then Glen Helen this year every track has been groomed before every moto.It seems like I have to watch the GPs any more if I want to see real motocross. MX is not supposed to be raced on freeways.MX sports says they're doing it to make mx more t.v. viewable.Higher speeds equal higher ratings they say.Outdoor mx is meant to be man and a bike against natural terrain,and not groomed every 5 min. Changing that and keeping the tracks freeways is the equivalent of not letting football players tackle. Sure there's other physical demands and skills in both sports beyond the smooth tracks and the not tackling but the rough tracks and tackling are singly the essence of both sports. The ability to survive the constant beating and excel at it at the same time is what makes you a champion.Seems to me they're trying to commercialize the sport too much. I'm ok with a little change like moving from Sunday to Saturday but the way it's going it won't be long til we see Britney Spears lip syncing at the races in between motos. I like the fact that we get same day coverage now but let's be honest the T.V.coverage isn't all that good. In a 1 hr show we get 17min of one moto and the other 43 min is commercials,interviews and BS hype.I will say the internet coverage on Allisports is the best thing since sliced bread. Thank you very much for that D.C. MX sports says smoothing the tracks out has made better racing. In my opinion that's not true. The absence of JS,RC,RV,and MA is what produced 7 different winners. Overall D.C. you rock and are a hero in my eyes just please give the dozers a day off on Saturday.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
How many years in a row do you have to race Outdoors before it is OK to take one off? Was it pussy sh--t when McGrath...

How many years in a row do you have to race Outdoors before it is OK to take one off?

Was it pussy sh--t when McGrath and Reed skipped the Outdoors?

Maybe calling riders out anonymously is pussy sh--t?
feelnjstfine--I agree with you that flat tracking isn't easier than MX.They're two totaly different animals and both are gnarly. Flat trackers are an insane breed. Going into corners at 100+mph and pitching it sideways sometimes 3 wide is total insanity.

gsxrcr28--I have no problem puting my name behind my opinion of supercross only contracts. Real men race outdoors. Dan Lamb, Portland Or.
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swizcore 9/13/2009 7:04pm
9/13/2009 7:04pm
feelnjstfine wrote:
Sorry, but flat track is not any easier than motocross, just different. Different mentality, different tecniques, different dangers. Obviously you have never pitched it in at...
Sorry, but flat track is not any easier than motocross, just different. Different mentality, different tecniques, different dangers. Obviously you have never pitched it in at 110 on a peagravel cushion half-mile or you would know how burly that sport is. Speaking of ruffness, those cushion tracks are anything but smooth.And the roost,shhhh,it'll peel the paint off your bike and helmet and nearly rip you off your bike! There's a reason most top notch motocrossers think flat trackers are insane.
Very true, I have friends who have qualified for nationals and attended flat track races and commented on how gnarly it is.

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