Here's an example of it working.

SEEMEFIRST
Posts
14211
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Location
Arlington, TX, USA
Edited Date/Time 5/26/2022 6:37pm
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) — A woman in West Virginia fatally shot a man who began firing an AR-15-style rifle into a crowd of people that had gathered for a party, authorities said.

Dennis Butler, 37, was killed Wednesday night after he pulled out the rifle and began shooting at dozens of people attending the birthday-graduation party outside an apartment complex in the city of Charleston, police said in a statement.

The woman, who was attending the party, drew a pistol and fired, killing Butler, the statement said. No one at the party was injured.

“Instead of running from the threat, she engaged with the threat and saved several lives last night,” Chief of Detectives Tony Hazelett told news outlets Thursday.

Butler was at the apartment complex earlier in the evening in a vehicle and had been warned to slow down because children were playing, police said. They said he left, but returned later, parked in front of the complex and began firing.

After fatally shooting Butler, the woman waited along with several witnesses for police to arrive, and all have cooperated with the investigation, authorities said.

Hazelett said no charges would be filed against the woman.
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zehn
Posts
7900
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Location
Anchorage, AK, USA
5/26/2022 2:16pm
much ty
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tobz
Posts
3891
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Location
Adelaide, AU
5/26/2022 2:33pm
Wow amazing, guns v guns really works!…. Now imagine the party if Dennis Buttler couldn’t have access to an AR-fucking-15.
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jasonward73
Posts
821
Joined
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Location
West Palm Beach, FL, USA
5/26/2022 2:45pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) — A woman in West Virginia fatally shot a man who began firing an AR-15-style rifle into a crowd of people that had...
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) — A woman in West Virginia fatally shot a man who began firing an AR-15-style rifle into a crowd of people that had gathered for a party, authorities said.

Dennis Butler, 37, was killed Wednesday night after he pulled out the rifle and began shooting at dozens of people attending the birthday-graduation party outside an apartment complex in the city of Charleston, police said in a statement.

The woman, who was attending the party, drew a pistol and fired, killing Butler, the statement said. No one at the party was injured.

“Instead of running from the threat, she engaged with the threat and saved several lives last night,” Chief of Detectives Tony Hazelett told news outlets Thursday.

Butler was at the apartment complex earlier in the evening in a vehicle and had been warned to slow down because children were playing, police said. They said he left, but returned later, parked in front of the complex and began firing.

After fatally shooting Butler, the woman waited along with several witnesses for police to arrive, and all have cooperated with the investigation, authorities said.

Hazelett said no charges would be filed against the woman.
These are total outliers... The overwhelming evidence proves good guy w a gun is a highly ineffective strategy to battle bad guys w guns.

This 18yr old who just bought a gun with essentially no training at all held off over a 100 highly trained law enforcement officers for over an hour. These are ppl with probably 100s of hours of active shooter training plus all the training that comes with being a LEO. And we expect a civilian with a gun to be just as or more effective?
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5/26/2022 2:46pm
tobz wrote:
Wow amazing, guns v guns really works!…. Now imagine the party if Dennis Buttler couldn’t have access to an AR-fucking-15.
I get you are from Australia and don't understand our way of life. But taking away everyone's AR-15 in America would literally cause a civil war like never seen. Not saying I believe people should have them or not. Its just what would happen if they tried. Also, we live in a country that is yelling defund the police, letting violent protest happen in cities and communities get burned down. If we are defunding our police and allowing peoples lively hoods to be destroyed over racial charged protest, can't you see why some people are hesitant to give up the only thing that is dependable in protecting them. I have guns and pray to never use them. I go places where I feel I do not need them and do not bring them. However, what I own in my home to protect myself from someone coming in and trying to hurt me or my family is frankly no ones business.
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The Shop

5/26/2022 2:48pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) — A woman in West Virginia fatally shot a man who began firing an AR-15-style rifle into a crowd of people that had...
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) — A woman in West Virginia fatally shot a man who began firing an AR-15-style rifle into a crowd of people that had gathered for a party, authorities said.

Dennis Butler, 37, was killed Wednesday night after he pulled out the rifle and began shooting at dozens of people attending the birthday-graduation party outside an apartment complex in the city of Charleston, police said in a statement.

The woman, who was attending the party, drew a pistol and fired, killing Butler, the statement said. No one at the party was injured.

“Instead of running from the threat, she engaged with the threat and saved several lives last night,” Chief of Detectives Tony Hazelett told news outlets Thursday.

Butler was at the apartment complex earlier in the evening in a vehicle and had been warned to slow down because children were playing, police said. They said he left, but returned later, parked in front of the complex and began firing.

After fatally shooting Butler, the woman waited along with several witnesses for police to arrive, and all have cooperated with the investigation, authorities said.

Hazelett said no charges would be filed against the woman.
These are total outliers... The overwhelming evidence proves good guy w a gun is a highly ineffective strategy to battle bad guys w guns. This 18yr...
These are total outliers... The overwhelming evidence proves good guy w a gun is a highly ineffective strategy to battle bad guys w guns.

This 18yr old who just bought a gun with essentially no training at all held off over a 100 highly trained law enforcement officers for over an hour. These are ppl with probably 100s of hours of active shooter training plus all the training that comes with being a LEO. And we expect a civilian with a gun to be just as or more effective?
I believe it is more common that you think it just does not fit the narrative so its not plastered all over the news.
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tobz
Posts
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Location
Adelaide, AU
5/26/2022 2:58pm
tobz wrote:
Wow amazing, guns v guns really works!…. Now imagine the party if Dennis Buttler couldn’t have access to an AR-fucking-15.
I get you are from Australia and don't understand our way of life. But taking away everyone's AR-15 in America would literally cause a civil war...
I get you are from Australia and don't understand our way of life. But taking away everyone's AR-15 in America would literally cause a civil war like never seen. Not saying I believe people should have them or not. Its just what would happen if they tried. Also, we live in a country that is yelling defund the police, letting violent protest happen in cities and communities get burned down. If we are defunding our police and allowing peoples lively hoods to be destroyed over racial charged protest, can't you see why some people are hesitant to give up the only thing that is dependable in protecting them. I have guns and pray to never use them. I go places where I feel I do not need them and do not bring them. However, what I own in my home to protect myself from someone coming in and trying to hurt me or my family is frankly no ones business.
Do Americans hear “gun control” and immediately think that every single gun ever will be taken from them?
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jasonward73
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Location
West Palm Beach, FL, USA
5/26/2022 2:59pm
I believe it is more common that you think it just does not fit the narrative so its not plastered all over the news.
Right wing leaning news organization salivate at the mouth for these stories. If they happened all the time they'd be glorified each and every time. Truth is, it just rarely happens.

To further prove the point every single year we have more and more law abiding citizens buying guns so if the theory was true then our deaths from guns and mass shootings would be going down since good guys w guns is such a deterrent. Yet every year gun deaths and mass shootings increase. Seems to me selling more guns just amounts to more dead people. That logic makes way more sense.

The #1 cause of death for children in the United States of America is guns. This fact alone should scare the shit out of everyone and result in some kind of policy change. I mean just do something. I am not suggesting banning them but FFS something should be done.
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5/26/2022 3:02pm
I believe it is more common that you think it just does not fit the narrative so its not plastered all over the news.
Right wing leaning news organization salivate at the mouth for these stories. If they happened all the time they'd be glorified each and every time. Truth...
Right wing leaning news organization salivate at the mouth for these stories. If they happened all the time they'd be glorified each and every time. Truth is, it just rarely happens.

To further prove the point every single year we have more and more law abiding citizens buying guns so if the theory was true then our deaths from guns and mass shootings would be going down since good guys w guns is such a deterrent. Yet every year gun deaths and mass shootings increase. Seems to me selling more guns just amounts to more dead people. That logic makes way more sense.

The #1 cause of death for children in the United States of America is guns. This fact alone should scare the shit out of everyone and result in some kind of policy change. I mean just do something. I am not suggesting banning them but FFS something should be done.
Why is homicide much higher in areas with stricter gun laws?
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zehn
Posts
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Anchorage, AK, USA
5/26/2022 3:03pm
tobz wrote:
Do Americans hear “gun control” and immediately think that every single gun ever will be taken from them?
Yes because that’s what they’re told to believe
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jasonward73
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Location
West Palm Beach, FL, USA
5/26/2022 3:08pm
Why is homicide much higher in areas with stricter gun laws?
Because in most parts of this country you can drive an hour in one direction and buy from a city or state with minimal restrictions, buy from a gun show, buy from craigslist, buy from a neighbor, or about a 100 other random ways to side step local legislation. Plus the places with stricter gun laws have more people and more poverty so you're gonna see more gun deaths. It is simple math.

Just like how dry counties have the same amount of drunks as non dry counties.
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5/26/2022 3:11pm
Why is homicide much higher in areas with stricter gun laws?
Because in most parts of this country you can drive an hour in one direction and buy from a city or state with minimal restrictions, buy...
Because in most parts of this country you can drive an hour in one direction and buy from a city or state with minimal restrictions, buy from a gun show, buy from craigslist, buy from a neighbor, or about a 100 other random ways to side step local legislation. Plus the places with stricter gun laws have more people and more poverty so you're gonna see more gun deaths. It is simple math.

Just like how dry counties have the same amount of drunks as non dry counties.
Like our open boarders?
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5/26/2022 3:13pm
Why is homicide much higher in areas with stricter gun laws?
Because in most parts of this country you can drive an hour in one direction and buy from a city or state with minimal restrictions, buy...
Because in most parts of this country you can drive an hour in one direction and buy from a city or state with minimal restrictions, buy from a gun show, buy from craigslist, buy from a neighbor, or about a 100 other random ways to side step local legislation. Plus the places with stricter gun laws have more people and more poverty so you're gonna see more gun deaths. It is simple math.

Just like how dry counties have the same amount of drunks as non dry counties.
I’m not disagreeing with you about that. But we have some any in circulation I think people wanting to do harm will easily be able to get them. So for that reason. I would rather have the right to have one as well to defend myself against those people.
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jasonward73
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West Palm Beach, FL, USA
5/26/2022 3:20pm Edited Date/Time 5/26/2022 3:21pm
I’m not disagreeing with you about that. But we have some any in circulation I think people wanting to do harm will easily be able to...
I’m not disagreeing with you about that. But we have some any in circulation I think people wanting to do harm will easily be able to get them. So for that reason. I would rather have the right to have one as well to defend myself against those people.
Many countries have taken aggressive measures to thwart continued gun violence and it has proven to work. It just takes politicians with balls that aren't owned by the NRA.

You may prefer to accept the status quo and live in a world where your kids aren't safe going to school or your spouse isn't safe to go to a grocery store but I prefer to live in a world where kids in school don't need to be surrounded my swat teams or armed teachers because the outside world is so incredibly dangerous. And if you want to own a gun then fine but it should be way more work to buy a gun or rifle than just turning 18 and having some cash in your pocket. I absolutely have no issue with people owning guns but the process needs to be tweaked massively. Clearly a frightening amount of people in this country can't be trusted to be responsible gun owners and just like everything they will inevitably ruin it for the rest of us.

This is America and we can do hard things if we try but what is happening right now is the opposite of trying. Just ignoring. It is pathetic that we've come to this.
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TooTallJason
Posts
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Location
Denver, CO, USA
5/26/2022 3:21pm
Why is homicide much higher in areas with stricter gun laws?
Because in most parts of this country you can drive an hour in one direction and buy from a city or state with minimal restrictions, buy...
Because in most parts of this country you can drive an hour in one direction and buy from a city or state with minimal restrictions, buy from a gun show, buy from craigslist, buy from a neighbor, or about a 100 other random ways to side step local legislation. Plus the places with stricter gun laws have more people and more poverty so you're gonna see more gun deaths. It is simple math.

Just like how dry counties have the same amount of drunks as non dry counties.
I’m not disagreeing with you about that. But we have some any in circulation I think people wanting to do harm will easily be able to...
I’m not disagreeing with you about that. But we have some any in circulation I think people wanting to do harm will easily be able to get them. So for that reason. I would rather have the right to have one as well to defend myself against those people.
So you need a gun because there's too many guns?

You need a gun to keep you safe from guns?

That's your pro-gun argument?
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TeamGreen
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Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
5/26/2022 3:23pm
Interestingly, I wasn't "told to believe" anything. My gov't trained me and put a 10mm on my hip. As time went on, I got my own weps and started shooting 9mm/.40 at matches, GSSF gatherings...etc. Later added .44, .50 and other calibers.

My favorite pistol? Ruger .22LR Kinda like rising a 125. And...like a 125 ...it's VERY easy to be precise with it.

I've since gotten into the .223 & .308 rifle scene. A very active sport-shooting scene with plenty of good matches and camp's.

As for "Americans are this" or "Americans are that"...? That's just hilarious.

While it's true that I do see "media led madness"...I chalk that up to the many minions that think EVERYTHING they see on Network News/TV is alllllll true! "Because, it was on the TV!"
Grinning
Heck, I see it in here. Someone see's a news story or an expose on something and VOILA! That's their new "go to" thing to rant about on the Interwebsthingy.

When an Aussie looks at us and doesn't understand our culture or way of life? Well, that's fine. We -are- a different country, after-all. But, know this: Aussie friends of mine seem to LOVE to go shoot my weps!
Smile
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philG
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GB
5/26/2022 3:26pm
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) — A woman in West Virginia fatally shot a man who began firing an AR-15-style rifle into a crowd of people that had...
CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) — A woman in West Virginia fatally shot a man who began firing an AR-15-style rifle into a crowd of people that had gathered for a party, authorities said.

Dennis Butler, 37, was killed Wednesday night after he pulled out the rifle and began shooting at dozens of people attending the birthday-graduation party outside an apartment complex in the city of Charleston, police said in a statement.

The woman, who was attending the party, drew a pistol and fired, killing Butler, the statement said. No one at the party was injured.

“Instead of running from the threat, she engaged with the threat and saved several lives last night,” Chief of Detectives Tony Hazelett told news outlets Thursday.

Butler was at the apartment complex earlier in the evening in a vehicle and had been warned to slow down because children were playing, police said. They said he left, but returned later, parked in front of the complex and began firing.

After fatally shooting Butler, the woman waited along with several witnesses for police to arrive, and all have cooperated with the investigation, authorities said.

Hazelett said no charges would be filed against the woman.
These are total outliers... The overwhelming evidence proves good guy w a gun is a highly ineffective strategy to battle bad guys w guns. This 18yr...
These are total outliers... The overwhelming evidence proves good guy w a gun is a highly ineffective strategy to battle bad guys w guns.

This 18yr old who just bought a gun with essentially no training at all held off over a 100 highly trained law enforcement officers for over an hour. These are ppl with probably 100s of hours of active shooter training plus all the training that comes with being a LEO. And we expect a civilian with a gun to be just as or more effective?
Sounds like they were waiting for donuts to turn up, before they would do anything.

If they hadnt turned up, it would have ended a lot sooner.
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APLMAN99
Posts
12929
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Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
5/26/2022 3:30pm
I believe it is more common that you think it just does not fit the narrative so its not plastered all over the news.
Right wing leaning news organization salivate at the mouth for these stories. If they happened all the time they'd be glorified each and every time. Truth...
Right wing leaning news organization salivate at the mouth for these stories. If they happened all the time they'd be glorified each and every time. Truth is, it just rarely happens.

To further prove the point every single year we have more and more law abiding citizens buying guns so if the theory was true then our deaths from guns and mass shootings would be going down since good guys w guns is such a deterrent. Yet every year gun deaths and mass shootings increase. Seems to me selling more guns just amounts to more dead people. That logic makes way more sense.

The #1 cause of death for children in the United States of America is guns. This fact alone should scare the shit out of everyone and result in some kind of policy change. I mean just do something. I am not suggesting banning them but FFS something should be done.
Why is homicide much higher in areas with stricter gun laws?
Depends on what level you are measuring, I suppose.......

On a country level? I am pretty sure that of industrialized nations, the ones with the most gun ownership are also the ones with the most homicides per capita. State level? Pretty much the same. County/City? Much more difficult to measure because of the relatively wide disparities in density, etc.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/

https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/

I'm still a supporter of the Second Amendment ensuring the right of individual gun ownership, but I am not blind to the data that shows that less restrictions means more gun deaths, either.
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zehn
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7900
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Location
Anchorage, AK, USA
5/26/2022 3:37pm
McConnell called for a bipartisan solution to the problem today so that’s something
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Gworm
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Location
Monett, MO, USA
5/26/2022 3:51pm
Because in most parts of this country you can drive an hour in one direction and buy from a city or state with minimal restrictions, buy...
Because in most parts of this country you can drive an hour in one direction and buy from a city or state with minimal restrictions, buy from a gun show, buy from craigslist, buy from a neighbor, or about a 100 other random ways to side step local legislation. Plus the places with stricter gun laws have more people and more poverty so you're gonna see more gun deaths. It is simple math.

Just like how dry counties have the same amount of drunks as non dry counties.
Do you think outlawing guns will make them disappear?

That will only make them illegal.

Murder is illegal, correct?
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jasonward73
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Location
West Palm Beach, FL, USA
5/26/2022 4:00pm
Gworm wrote:
Do you think outlawing guns will make them disappear?

That will only make them illegal.

Murder is illegal, correct?
Not only did I not say anything even close to outlawing them I even went as far as to say I have no issue with people owning them. I just think the process for getting them needs some serious changes.

I guess you're one of those people that hear changes to how guns are owned or bought as the Gov't is knocking down my door and confiscating all my guns and all guns will be banned forever. Take a pill dude. \
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Titan1
Posts
9477
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Location
Lehi, UT, USA
5/26/2022 4:08pm
I posted this is the other thread right before it was locked and I’ll post it again here…


Nobody interested in talking about what the actual problem is (why are there so many people in this country who resort to mass murder), rather than argue about what color of band aide to put on the severed limb (what tool they use to commit mass murder)?

I’m far less concerned about what tool they use, and far more concerned why there are so many people in our society that want to commit mass murder…why is that?

If you insist on arguing about what color of band aide to put on this severed limb, you aren’t interested in actually solving the problem, only pushing your agenda and/or eliminating guns because you don’t like them, or protecting guns because you do like them….and the country will bleed out while you argue about a symptom of the problem.

So what is the root problem? Why are there so many people in America that resort to mass murder? What is causing that? It certainly isn’t guns, I know that much…so what is the reason?
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SEEMEFIRST
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Location
Arlington, TX, USA
5/26/2022 4:09pm
I'm going to need a bigger boat.
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zehn
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Anchorage, AK, USA
5/26/2022 4:12pm
We aren’t a global outlier in terms of gross mental illness but we are global outliers in terms of access to high powered, semi-automatic rifles AND lack of access to mental health resources.

The private sector has so far proven to be completely ineffective at addressing either of these issues
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SEEMEFIRST
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Arlington, TX, USA
5/26/2022 4:12pm
And here’s an example of it not working your might remember https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-44a7cfb990feaa6…
There were no armed people there at the time the shooter entered the building.

How is this remotely similar other than the guy with an AR?
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Titan1
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9477
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Lehi, UT, USA
5/26/2022 4:14pm
zehn wrote:
We aren’t a global outlier in terms of gross mental illness but we are global outliers in terms of access to high powered, semi-automatic rifles AND...
We aren’t a global outlier in terms of gross mental illness but we are global outliers in terms of access to high powered, semi-automatic rifles AND lack of access to mental health resources.

The private sector has so far proven to be completely ineffective at addressing either of these issues
So you blame mental health and lack of mental health care? Great…why not talk about that? What do you think will make that better?
SEEMEFIRST
Posts
14211
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Location
Arlington, TX, USA
5/26/2022 4:19pm
We tried asking the coyotes to quit killing newborn calves, and the wild pigs to quit killing trees and plowing up the pastures, but they just won't listen.
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Joey_Bridges
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1550
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Kingston, TN, USA
5/26/2022 4:20pm Edited Date/Time 5/26/2022 4:22pm
I believe it is more common that you think it just does not fit the narrative so its not plastered all over the news.
There's a website/FB page called, concealed nation.
There's not a day goes by where they don't post a, good guy, or good woman, with a gun story.
Home invasions, car jackings, parking lot assaults, etc...

You're correct.
It's a daily occurrence, that you never hear about on the news.
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zehn
Posts
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Anchorage, AK, USA
5/26/2022 4:22pm
Titan1 wrote:
So you blame mental health and lack of mental health care? Great…why not talk about that? What do you think will make that better?
You could try reading my post again and thinking about it in context of what you posted and the data relating to mass shootings globally

@dk probably because innocent children are being murdered at schools and most people are understandably disgusted by that. Did you even think before typing that shit out?
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