3 Moto Format

Tommy162
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Tommy162
Edited Date/Time 1/24/2012 9:25am
So this weekend there was a big race in new england and it was a 3 moto format. In one of my classes I got a 2-1-4 (Downpoured for the last moto, suck in the mud). Another person in my class got a 3-3-1. He got the overall.

Now I know in a 2 moto format it makes perfect sense to have the tie breaker be whoever did better in the last moto, but in a 3 moto format?

Am I just crazy or would it make more sense for the tie breaker in a 3 moto format to be whoever did better in 2 of their motos than it be whoever did better in the last moto?

Can anyone tell me the reason why the last moto is the tie breaker in a 3 moto format?

Thanks.
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Lightning78
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Lightning78 6/29/2009 11:22pm
6/29/2009 11:22pm
No I don't think it wouldn't....riders are already junming off the nats ship like rats .....A 3 moto format would surely infuse a lot more GNCC and a lot less mx "stars" they don't like th e30min +2 already like it is thats why so may try and others do opt out of the nats .....its sad to say but it is a reality
andymoto
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andymoto 6/29/2009 11:30pm
6/29/2009 11:30pm
Was tried in the '70s and dumped.

If anything, it should go back to 2 45 min motos straight up.

GuyB
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GuyB 6/30/2009 12:08am
6/30/2009 12:08am
Did you guys flunk reading for comprehension? I didn't see anywhere that he asked about changing the national format. He's asking about his class, at his local track.

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PaleBlue
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PaleBlue 6/30/2009 2:29am
6/30/2009 2:29am
Tommy162 wrote:
So this weekend there was a big race in new england and it was a 3 moto format. In one of my classes I got a...
So this weekend there was a big race in new england and it was a 3 moto format. In one of my classes I got a 2-1-4 (Downpoured for the last moto, suck in the mud). Another person in my class got a 3-3-1. He got the overall.

Now I know in a 2 moto format it makes perfect sense to have the tie breaker be whoever did better in the last moto, but in a 3 moto format?

Am I just crazy or would it make more sense for the tie breaker in a 3 moto format to be whoever did better in 2 of their motos than it be whoever did better in the last moto?

Can anyone tell me the reason why the last moto is the tie breaker in a 3 moto format?

Thanks.
The logic goes same as for two motos - if two riders are 'equal' the fittest guy is supposed to go fastest in the later moto's
Kinetic1
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Kinetic1 6/30/2009 3:07am
6/30/2009 3:07am
I would think they should place the most importance on consistency but what do I know?
motogrady
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motogrady 6/30/2009 3:16am
6/30/2009 3:16am
Tommy162 wrote:
So this weekend there was a big race in new england and it was a 3 moto format. In one of my classes I got a...
So this weekend there was a big race in new england and it was a 3 moto format. In one of my classes I got a 2-1-4 (Downpoured for the last moto, suck in the mud). Another person in my class got a 3-3-1. He got the overall.

Now I know in a 2 moto format it makes perfect sense to have the tie breaker be whoever did better in the last moto, but in a 3 moto format?

Am I just crazy or would it make more sense for the tie breaker in a 3 moto format to be whoever did better in 2 of their motos than it be whoever did better in the last moto?

Can anyone tell me the reason why the last moto is the tie breaker in a 3 moto format?

Thanks.
PaleBlue wrote:
The logic goes same as for two motos - if two riders are 'equal' the fittest guy is supposed to go fastest in the later moto's

Bingo.
sc961
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sc961 6/30/2009 5:18am
6/30/2009 5:18am
What if the first two moto's were swapped between 1 and 2? How would you break the tie using consistency between them?

That's why it's normally the last moto of the set breaking a tie..
Kinetic1
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Kinetic1 6/30/2009 5:28am
6/30/2009 5:28am
sc961 wrote:
What if the first two moto's were swapped between 1 and 2? How would you break the tie using consistency between them? That's why it's normally...
What if the first two moto's were swapped between 1 and 2? How would you break the tie using consistency between them?

That's why it's normally the last moto of the set breaking a tie..
If they were swapped between 1 and 2 then whoever finished the last moto in the better position would still be the most consistent.
Highsider
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Highsider 6/30/2009 5:41am
6/30/2009 5:41am
PaleBlue wrote:
The logic goes same as for two motos - if two riders are 'equal' the fittest guy is supposed to go fastest in the later moto's
And in this case had better luck in the poorer conditions?
-eagle-
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-eagle- 6/30/2009 5:46am
6/30/2009 5:46am
How did the guy who won the first moto do in the last two?
txmxer
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txmxer 6/30/2009 5:47am
6/30/2009 5:47am
GuyB wrote:
Did you guys flunk reading for comprehension? I didn't see anywhere that he asked about changing the national format. He's asking about his class, at his...
Did you guys flunk reading for comprehension? I didn't see anywhere that he asked about changing the national format. He's asking about his class, at his local track.
Woohoo


I think there are a lot of ways you could select a winner. Other than straight math, I'm not sure there is a "fair" or logical way to do it. You could make arguments all day.
PaleBlue
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PaleBlue 6/30/2009 5:51am
6/30/2009 5:51am
PaleBlue wrote:
The logic goes same as for two motos - if two riders are 'equal' the fittest guy is supposed to go fastest in the later moto's
Highsider wrote:
And in this case had better luck in the poorer conditions?
Going well in Sh*tty conditions is not a matter of luck. It's all about skill, technique and belief. So yes, even fairer in this case!
RNagy052
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RNagy052 6/30/2009 7:48am
6/30/2009 7:48am
Makes perfect sense. Your 2-1-4 = 7, his 3-3-1 =7, so you were both tied

Since you both had 7, whoever did better in the 3rd moto gets the better overall finish

No difference than if you had run a 2 moto format at a local race, the last moto breaks the tie.
txmxer
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txmxer 6/30/2009 8:09am
6/30/2009 8:09am
RNagy052 wrote:
Makes perfect sense. Your 2-1-4 = 7, his 3-3-1 =7, so you were both tied Since you both had 7, whoever did better in the 3rd...
Makes perfect sense. Your 2-1-4 = 7, his 3-3-1 =7, so you were both tied

Since you both had 7, whoever did better in the 3rd moto gets the better overall finish

No difference than if you had run a 2 moto format at a local race, the last moto breaks the tie.
yeah, but that sucks.

If you go 1-1-7 and someone else goes 4-4-1, who had the better day?
huck
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huck 6/30/2009 8:14am
6/30/2009 8:14am
RNagy052 wrote:
Makes perfect sense. Your 2-1-4 = 7, his 3-3-1 =7, so you were both tied Since you both had 7, whoever did better in the 3rd...
Makes perfect sense. Your 2-1-4 = 7, his 3-3-1 =7, so you were both tied

Since you both had 7, whoever did better in the 3rd moto gets the better overall finish

No difference than if you had run a 2 moto format at a local race, the last moto breaks the tie.
txmxer wrote:
yeah, but that sucks.

If you go 1-1-7 and someone else goes 4-4-1, who had the better day?
The guy going home with the hot chick?
Tommy162
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Tommy162 6/30/2009 8:30am
6/30/2009 8:30am Edited Date/Time 6/30/2009 8:48am
sc961 wrote:
What if the first two moto's were swapped between 1 and 2? How would you break the tie using consistency between them? That's why it's normally...
What if the first two moto's were swapped between 1 and 2? How would you break the tie using consistency between them?

That's why it's normally the last moto of the set breaking a tie..
Wait wait wait. If the first moto's were swapped between them 1 and 2 then there would be no tie breaker because they wouldn't have the same amount of points. Right? But in my situation I feel that I had the better day. As someone said above if you get a 1-1-7 and somone else gets a 4-4-1, who REALLY was the better rider that day?
Tommy162
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Tommy162 6/30/2009 8:34am
6/30/2009 8:34am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 12:40am
-eagle- wrote:
How did the guy who won the first moto do in the last two?
The guy who won the first moto got a flat while he was behind me in the second and a DNF. The track was soooooooo brutal that if u weren't in the hunt for the win you weren't racing the last moto. lol

And sorry for the double post.

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Tommy162
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Tommy162 6/30/2009 9:39am
6/30/2009 9:39am
While I have this thing going, do sand/mud tires make a big difference? Last moto I just had my Dunlop 952 rear and all 3 people in front of me had mud tires. They were getting a lot more drive out of all the turns and where hitting doubles I just couldn't get enough traction to do.
txmxer
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txmxer 6/30/2009 9:57am
6/30/2009 9:57am
Tommy162 wrote:
While I have this thing going, do sand/mud tires make a big difference? Last moto I just had my Dunlop 952 rear and all 3 people...
While I have this thing going, do sand/mud tires make a big difference? Last moto I just had my Dunlop 952 rear and all 3 people in front of me had mud tires. They were getting a lot more drive out of all the turns and where hitting doubles I just couldn't get enough traction to do.
I think you answered your own question...


WhipMeister
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WhipMeister 6/30/2009 11:30am
6/30/2009 11:30am
I'm one of the few around here old enough to have actually raced 3 motos back in the day.

What you describe is the same way it was done then.

It probably would improve it if they adopted the AMA pro points system (25 for 1st, 22 for second, 20 for 3rd, 18 4th, 17 5th, etc.). That way a podium is rewarded with a bonus. It would differentiate the 1-1-7 from the 4-4-1. However, in this specific case it would not change anything, because you both won a moto.

3-3-1=20+20+25=65 points
2-1-4=22+25+18=65 points
Tommy162
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Tommy162 7/1/2009 12:32am
7/1/2009 12:32am
txmxer wrote:
I think you answered your own question...


Haha. Well I didn't know if the mud tires would make that much of a difference or if all 3 of them were just complete beast mud riders.
Tommy162
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Tommy162 7/1/2009 12:37am
7/1/2009 12:37am
WhipMeister wrote:
I'm one of the few around here old enough to have actually raced 3 motos back in the day. What you describe is the same way...
I'm one of the few around here old enough to have actually raced 3 motos back in the day.

What you describe is the same way it was done then.

It probably would improve it if they adopted the AMA pro points system (25 for 1st, 22 for second, 20 for 3rd, 18 4th, 17 5th, etc.). That way a podium is rewarded with a bonus. It would differentiate the 1-1-7 from the 4-4-1. However, in this specific case it would not change anything, because you both won a moto.

3-3-1=20+20+25=65 points
2-1-4=22+25+18=65 points
What do u mean what I described? Was it the last moto that settled the tie breaker back then or the best 2 motos?
JB 19
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JB 19 7/1/2009 1:12am
7/1/2009 1:12am Edited Date/Time 7/1/2009 1:13am
The 3 moto format has been used at Lorretas for years and think it is pretty much accepted that guys who got their shit together and got better as the week went on finished the strongest. (3rd moto)

They have a saying in college football...... September is for pretenders, November is for contenders.
shmoo 7/1/2009 3:02am
7/1/2009 3:02am
WhipMeister wrote:
I'm one of the few around here old enough to have actually raced 3 motos back in the day. What you describe is the same way...
I'm one of the few around here old enough to have actually raced 3 motos back in the day.

What you describe is the same way it was done then.

It probably would improve it if they adopted the AMA pro points system (25 for 1st, 22 for second, 20 for 3rd, 18 4th, 17 5th, etc.). That way a podium is rewarded with a bonus. It would differentiate the 1-1-7 from the 4-4-1. However, in this specific case it would not change anything, because you both won a moto.

3-3-1=20+20+25=65 points
2-1-4=22+25+18=65 points
Good call Whippy

That's what we still use here except we gap 4th and 5th 18 to 16, then go down 1 from there.
I'm surprised to see the tie- rarely happens. The guy who went 1-2-3 won! ;~)

3 round format is awesome for those whose who like riding on race day.
Can't believe I used to drive 5 hours to race 2 12-min motos way back when...

Granted 3 rounds can make for a long day if there are too many classes (or crashes), but that's another thread.
Flatlander
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Flatlander 7/1/2009 4:27am
7/1/2009 4:27am
RNagy052 wrote:
Makes perfect sense. Your 2-1-4 = 7, his 3-3-1 =7, so you were both tied Since you both had 7, whoever did better in the 3rd...
Makes perfect sense. Your 2-1-4 = 7, his 3-3-1 =7, so you were both tied

Since you both had 7, whoever did better in the 3rd moto gets the better overall finish

No difference than if you had run a 2 moto format at a local race, the last moto breaks the tie.
txmxer wrote:
yeah, but that sucks.

If you go 1-1-7 and someone else goes 4-4-1, who had the better day?
It would have been the guy that went 2-2-2 ha
sc961
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sc961 7/1/2009 5:32am
7/1/2009 5:32am
sc961 wrote:
What if the first two moto's were swapped between 1 and 2? How would you break the tie using consistency between them? That's why it's normally...
What if the first two moto's were swapped between 1 and 2? How would you break the tie using consistency between them?

That's why it's normally the last moto of the set breaking a tie..
Tommy162 wrote:
Wait wait wait. If the first moto's were swapped between them 1 and 2 then there would be no tie breaker because they wouldn't have the...
Wait wait wait. If the first moto's were swapped between them 1 and 2 then there would be no tie breaker because they wouldn't have the same amount of points. Right? But in my situation I feel that I had the better day. As someone said above if you get a 1-1-7 and somone else gets a 4-4-1, who REALLY was the better rider that day?
Correct, but how you feel doesn't matter as far as figuring the overall.

Equal points + better final moto = over all winner

Feelings are good, but not measureable. Rules sometimes suck, but will secure the proper outcome in any case as long as they are followed as written.

If people don't think the rules are fair or good, change them. But not in the middle of a situation.

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