false advertising for engine oils

jaguar57
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Miami, FL, USA
5/22/2020 7:34pm Edited Date/Time 5/22/2020 7:36pm
Flash Point Temperature is the temperature at which the engine oil can vaporize and burn. Usually the lower the flash point the more kerosene-like thinner they have in it. The listed flash point temp doesn't reflect the flash temp of the actual base oils which are usually 215C - 300C except for group 1 oil which can be as low as 75C. I generally ignore the flash point because it says nothing about the base oils.

Karts run really high RPM which causes more engine heat which lowers the main way in which an oil protects, namely its viscosity. So to compensate there needs to be more oil which is why kart racers add so much oil. Look at engine oil data and note how their 100C viscosity is less than half of their 40C viscosity which means the higher the temp, the lower the viscosity. A high viscosity index (VI) means there will be less viscosity loss with high temps so racers should choose oils with a high VI.
1
5/22/2020 9:55pm
Why did rick delete his magic oil testing novel?

Friction is massive drain on two stroke power. Goes against everything every respected tuner/engineer has and does say.
jaguar57
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5/22/2020 10:02pm
(He took his toys and went home) :-(

The Shop

jaguar57
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5/22/2020 10:40pm
the subject is 2 stroke engine oils
jaguar57
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Miami, FL, USA
5/23/2020 9:52pm
Oh boy, somebody has had a bad day. grab a beer and stop hating.
About 95% that page of mine was quotes from other sources, just a compiling of information, and yet you say "50% was bullshit" which means you think 45% of all the decent info out there on oil is bullshit.
OK Mr Know-It-All, answer me this: How come you've never got off your ass and tried to educate the public about all the ins and outs of engine oil? Why was I left with the task? Oh so now the big man is all hot under the collar because someone with less knowledge than him steps up to the plate and attempts to help in a way no one else has up to now. So who is full of bullshit? I think you are because you've got a real shitty attitude.
Even now for some odd reason you removed your info. You are acting in a way opposite of me. I try to inform but you are one of the "oil elite" that thinks the public is too dumb to handle all your golden knowledge.

I never said I knew it all. I said that my suspicion about viscosity as the prime protective quality was confirmed by Joey Cabrera at Motul as well as a few authoritative internet quotes. And I put my theory in a spreadsheet and its results were right on or very close to the ratios different companies have recommended. read on mr knew-it-all (notice the past tense. Now you just think you know it all and get all pissy when anyone else professes to know something):

There was a thorough test of the AMSoil Saber Professional Oil and it found that the more oil that was added to the gas, the less ring wear there was for the same mileage. My calculator says it should be used at 41:1 fuel/oil ratio according to its viscosity which is the lowest ratio tested which produced the best results. Here is his results:
Before and after ring end gaps using different engine fuel/oil ratios on a 1E40QMB Air Cooled Chinese Minarelli Clone reving to 9000 RPM for 100 miles.
AMSOil Saber synthetic oil
ratio ring end gaps before and after
40:1 - .012", .015" (.003" wear)
50:1 - .019", .023" (.004" wear)
80:1 - .031", .037" (.006" wear)

Motul recommends their 800 Off Road be used at 50:1 and my calculator shows its ratio to be 51:1 for a water cooled engine reving to 12,000 RPM. I choose 12,000 for extreme use because that is what a modern 125cc revs to. And the oil manufacturers usually recommend a racing oil at a ratio that will protect an extreme motocross engine such as a 125cc.
Bel-Ray's rep emailed me that he recommends their H1-R be used at 40:1 for 125cc motocross and my calculator shows 37:1 for it.
for synthetic/mineral blends:
Golden SX2 is recommended at 32:1 and my calculator shows that same ratio for a water cooled engine up to 12000 RPM.
Golden Spectro is recommended at 42:1 and my calculator shows exactly that for a water cooled engine up to 12000 RPM.
for a mineral oil:
Spectro 2T is not advertised as a racing oil but something that can be used in oil injector systems so we can say it is for up to 10,000 RPM at the recommended ratio of 32:1 which is exactly what my calculator shows for it at 10,000 RPM.

OMG! this can't be! this "outsider" actually does know something! Call the engine oil police! He must be stopped!

This knew-it-all pissy attitude insider is the second oil insider to attack me with such an aggressive attitude. Man they really hate it for others to talk about "their" industry. (obviously an emotionally toxic industry)

Instead of attacking me and trying to make it look like I didn't hit the nail on the head (although your Dominator oil is clearly an exception with some great additives) why don't you make a web page that fills in the fine points that I am missing. I never claimed to know it all, just one important piece of the puzzle.

I'm waiting (but not with baited breath. I'll bet anyone he has more venom to spew out instead of trying to educate people. He'd much rather point out those who aren't an insider with insider knowledge.

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3
5/24/2020 12:21am
Group 2, 3 and 4 base oils can have very low viscosity, no need to cut formulations with solvents, which will totally screw up the VI...
Group 2, 3 and 4 base oils can have very low viscosity, no need to cut formulations with solvents, which will totally screw up the VI of the lubricant. I’ve worked for two of the global majors for 29 years now, the only pure solvents used would be the base liquid on pour point depressant additives, and these go in decimal percentages in the final product.
Wanna know how I know you didn't work in the R&D departments of those "global majors"?
Moto, apologies for my incorrect statement above. You are correct, 2 stroke oils do use solvents in the formulations. I was generalizing and my statement was more applicable to pco, cvo and industrial grade lubes. Mco is such a small portfolio for us locally, and our synthetic range is a direct import from Europe hence my lack of formulation knowledge
1
5/26/2020 9:49am
Group 2, 3 and 4 base oils can have very low viscosity, no need to cut formulations with solvents, which will totally screw up the VI...
Group 2, 3 and 4 base oils can have very low viscosity, no need to cut formulations with solvents, which will totally screw up the VI of the lubricant. I’ve worked for two of the global majors for 29 years now, the only pure solvents used would be the base liquid on pour point depressant additives, and these go in decimal percentages in the final product.
Wanna know how I know you didn't work in the R&D departments of those "global majors"?
Moto, apologies for my incorrect statement above. You are correct, 2 stroke oils do use solvents in the formulations. I was generalizing and my statement was...
Moto, apologies for my incorrect statement above. You are correct, 2 stroke oils do use solvents in the formulations. I was generalizing and my statement was more applicable to pco, cvo and industrial grade lubes. Mco is such a small portfolio for us locally, and our synthetic range is a direct import from Europe hence my lack of formulation knowledge
No need to apologize. I get a little testy when people generalize incorrectly about things I know for fact. Me trying to be light-hearted/sarcastic, comes across dickish for sure, so sorry for jumping straight to acting that way rather than posting some relevant articles or data to illustrate my point.

I do appreciate you bringing up that you delved into it and got the right information and I respect you putting it up here.
1
slipdog
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Nor Cal, CA, USA
5/26/2020 12:21pm
I dig a good thread that doesn't devolve to name calling when one or more parties don't agree. It appears there some deleted posts I missed though, I'm always up for a good old fashion meltdown too...
DynoDan22
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Victorville, CA, USA
5/26/2020 2:52pm
Most bikes I see on Craig's List see more damage by shoddy mechanics than the 11% wear delta across all the modern two stroke oils. The vast majority of the premix is legit and usually isn't the limiting factor in failures for the average MX rider/bikes. I appreciate the in depth study, as a engineer myself, but overall neglect of a bike is far more detrimental. Ray Charles jetting specs and lack of airfilter maintenance will end a two stroke's life long before Golden Spectro will. Just my 2 cents.....
4
Falcon
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Menifee, CA, USA
5/27/2020 2:37pm
DynoDan22 wrote:
Most bikes I see on Craig's List see more damage by shoddy mechanics than the 11% wear delta across all the modern two stroke oils. The...
Most bikes I see on Craig's List see more damage by shoddy mechanics than the 11% wear delta across all the modern two stroke oils. The vast majority of the premix is legit and usually isn't the limiting factor in failures for the average MX rider/bikes. I appreciate the in depth study, as a engineer myself, but overall neglect of a bike is far more detrimental. Ray Charles jetting specs and lack of airfilter maintenance will end a two stroke's life long before Golden Spectro will. Just my 2 cents.....
"Ray Charles jetting specs." Grinning Grinning Grinning Cool
1

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