No-Toil filter dyno test

williamsmotowerx
Edited Date/Time 1/25/2012 8:04am
I finally had a YZF250 on the dyno again. Make a long story short, I am impressed. It may not look like much to you guys.. but when you have a mod motor that makes "X" amount.. almost everything else you try loses power.

There was no jetting change for this particular test, I will optimize a test some other time and optimize it for both and see if results change.. I doubt results will change much.

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REALLY
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REALLY 4/23/2009 9:49pm
4/23/2009 9:49pm
wouldn't the screen alone make that difference in hp
drmarkr
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drmarkr 4/23/2009 11:04pm
4/23/2009 11:04pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 11:32pm
I'm still trying to figure out why you'd do the run with a NoToil, but not do a run with a stock filter sans screen.


These results should be considered the result of the lack of screen, and nothing to do with the filter itself....at least until proven otherwise.
rockcrawlerdude 4/23/2009 11:32pm
4/23/2009 11:32pm Edited Date/Time 4/23/2009 11:33pm
drmarkr wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out why you'd do the run with a NoToil, but not do a run with a stock filter sans screen. These...
I'm still trying to figure out why you'd do the run with a NoToil, but not do a run with a stock filter sans screen.


These results should be considered the result of the lack of screen, and nothing to do with the filter itself....at least until proven otherwise.
i'd have to agree removing the screen is supposed to make a huge difference
flarider
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flarider 4/24/2009 4:37am
4/24/2009 4:37am
Have to agree, Jesse, I'd like to see stock w/o screen in there

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bogdan912
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bogdan912 4/24/2009 6:48am
4/24/2009 6:48am
Actually removing the screen makes minimal difference.
drmarkr
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drmarkr 4/24/2009 7:00am
4/24/2009 7:00am
bogdan912 wrote:
Actually removing the screen makes minimal difference.
Show us the dyno curves if you're going to make a statement like that. Or tell us you saw dyno runs to prove it. Hopefully you're not stating that based on anything else.

Then again, Jesse may have just done that with his curves above.....
rcannon
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rcannon 4/24/2009 7:40am
4/24/2009 7:40am
If in fact the difference is in the oil, is there a danger that the filter wont stop dirt as well?
Cygnus
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Cygnus 4/24/2009 7:47am
4/24/2009 7:47am
Wow 1/4 of a HP. Those guys at Thumpertalk would be all over the No Toil if they saw this.
CamP
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CamP 4/24/2009 7:47am
4/24/2009 7:47am
bogdan912 wrote:
Actually removing the screen makes minimal difference.
It depends on the bike. The 02-08 CRF450 picks up 1hp without the screen. The 09 doesn't pick up anything without it.
txmxer
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txmxer 4/24/2009 7:49am
4/24/2009 7:49am
Thanks for doing that Jesse.

Are those from one single run with each setup or did you do multiple runs and that's an average?

Slow ~ Pro
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Slow ~ Pro 4/24/2009 8:16am
4/24/2009 8:16am
Wide open, on long "GP" straights, is where I have seen a major difference.

Even if it is minimal, Go-Toil... er...I mean, No Toil, still works better, from my experience.
BobbyM
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BobbyM 4/24/2009 8:38am
4/24/2009 8:38am
without a screen wouldn't the filter collapse? just asking.
newmann
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newmann 4/24/2009 8:54am
4/24/2009 8:54am Edited Date/Time 4/24/2009 8:55am
Still has the cage Bob, just removing the mesh screen. Unless you've ever owned one of the current POS 4 strokes, you probably wouldn't know
CamP
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CamP 4/24/2009 8:57am
4/24/2009 8:57am
BobbyM wrote:
without a screen wouldn't the filter collapse? just asking.
The backfire screen is inside of the traditional filter cage. In bikes like the CRF you can simply pop the screen out of the cage as it is a two piece design. Some bikes have the screen integrated into the cage and you have to cut the screen out of the cage. In those applications, the no-toil setup would be easier to deal with.
bogdan912
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bogdan912 4/24/2009 9:09am
4/24/2009 9:09am
drmarkr wrote:
Show us the dyno curves if you're going to make a statement like that. Or tell us you saw dyno runs to prove it. Hopefully you're...
Show us the dyno curves if you're going to make a statement like that. Or tell us you saw dyno runs to prove it. Hopefully you're not stating that based on anything else.

Then again, Jesse may have just done that with his curves above.....
Quick to throw me under the bus!

Jesse can probably validate my claim, he's done the dyno runs. But hey maybe I am completely wrong, wouldn't that make you happy!
MX455
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MX455 4/24/2009 9:34am
4/24/2009 9:34am
Not that I know anything, but you guys should really check out the loud mouth system. loudmouthmx.com . It eliminates the screen and the cage, plus it's much easier to change and clean. Flame away.
BobbyM
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BobbyM 4/24/2009 9:35am
4/24/2009 9:35am
newmann wrote:
Still has the cage Bob, just removing the mesh screen. Unless you've ever owned one of the current POS 4 strokes, you probably wouldn't know
ok..thanks. don't know much about scooters anymore.
500guy
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500guy 4/24/2009 9:42am
4/24/2009 9:42am
Since it's on a Dyno, I'd like to see the numbers with no air filter ,

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500guy
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500guy 4/24/2009 9:43am
4/24/2009 9:43am
newmann wrote:
Still has the cage Bob, just removing the mesh screen. Unless you've ever owned one of the current POS 4 strokes, you probably wouldn't know
BobbyM wrote:
ok..thanks. don't know much about scooters anymore.
I was told you were a 62 yr old loser that thinks he's king of the inter-net
BobbyM
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BobbyM 4/24/2009 9:44am
4/24/2009 9:44am
newmann wrote:
Still has the cage Bob, just removing the mesh screen. Unless you've ever owned one of the current POS 4 strokes, you probably wouldn't know
BobbyM wrote:
ok..thanks. don't know much about scooters anymore.
500guy wrote:
I was told you were a 62 yr old loser that thinks he's king of the inter-net
hehehe...just another guy name dropping "bobbym" beotch!!


just fuggen kidding folks....sheesh.
Cygnus
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Cygnus 4/24/2009 9:47am
4/24/2009 9:47am
MX455 wrote:
Not that I know anything, but you guys should really check out the loud mouth system. [url=http://loudmouthmx.com/]loudmouthmx.com[/url] . It eliminates the screen and the cage, plus...
Not that I know anything, but you guys should really check out the loud mouth system. loudmouthmx.com . It eliminates the screen and the cage, plus it's much easier to change and clean. Flame away.
You should really send one free of charge to Jesse for testing since you brought it up.
oldx
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oldx 4/24/2009 11:21am
4/24/2009 11:21am
flarider wrote:
Have to agree, Jesse, I'd like to see stock w/o screen in there
X3 oranges to oranges and apples to apples.
raddad
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raddad 4/24/2009 11:28am
4/24/2009 11:28am
flarider wrote:
Have to agree, Jesse, I'd like to see stock w/o screen in there
oldx wrote:
X3 oranges to oranges and apples to apples.
Then when that is done you have to do the "coffee filter" test. A pure white filter placed over the carb to detect how much dirt is getting through each type of filter in race conditions as someone did with the Gauze type filters many years ago in some mag article. It was found that the foam was more restrictive but did not let in as much dirt. I would be sceptical at any filter that flows lots of air and still has the ability to do its job which is to filter dirt!
drmarkr
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drmarkr 4/24/2009 11:43am
4/24/2009 11:43am
drmarkr wrote:
Show us the dyno curves if you're going to make a statement like that. Or tell us you saw dyno runs to prove it. Hopefully you're...
Show us the dyno curves if you're going to make a statement like that. Or tell us you saw dyno runs to prove it. Hopefully you're not stating that based on anything else.

Then again, Jesse may have just done that with his curves above.....
bogdan912 wrote:
Quick to throw me under the bus! Jesse can probably validate my claim, he's done the dyno runs. But hey maybe I am completely wrong, wouldn't...
Quick to throw me under the bus!

Jesse can probably validate my claim, he's done the dyno runs. But hey maybe I am completely wrong, wouldn't that make you happy!
Didn't mean to hammer on you....I seriously wanted to know where/if you'd seen the curves. It's a cinch that seat of the pants won't suffice as evidence....

I'm certain I'm missing something in this discussion, as I never figured it out a few weeks ago when it came up.

But if you're comparing ANY filter system that has a screen, to one with no screen, then it would seem to need one additional run with a stock filter/no screen in order to say exactly WTF is causing your HP gains. If you get any....
Lightning78
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Lightning78 4/24/2009 11:45am
4/24/2009 11:45am
Even when it is put right in front of you on a dyno plain as day some still can't accept it is a superior product. Wow that is simply amazing .....seems no matter what there are a few in every bunch.

I've been using No Toil for years and it is the BEST filter product available.
drmarkr
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drmarkr 4/24/2009 11:50am
4/24/2009 11:50am
Lightning78 wrote:
Even when it is put right in front of you on a dyno plain as day some still can't accept it is a superior product. Wow...
Even when it is put right in front of you on a dyno plain as day some still can't accept it is a superior product. Wow that is simply amazing .....seems no matter what there are a few in every bunch.

I've been using No Toil for years and it is the BEST filter product available.
Did you read the thread? Got anything pertinent to add??

Guess not....
flarider
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flarider 4/24/2009 11:52am
4/24/2009 11:52am
MX455 wrote:
Not that I know anything, but you guys should really check out the loud mouth system. [url=http://loudmouthmx.com/]loudmouthmx.com[/url] . It eliminates the screen and the cage, plus...
Not that I know anything, but you guys should really check out the loud mouth system. loudmouthmx.com . It eliminates the screen and the cage, plus it's much easier to change and clean. Flame away.
Registered just for that, huh?

We know what that means...
SteveS
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SteveS 4/24/2009 11:53am
4/24/2009 11:53am Edited Date/Time 4/24/2009 11:53am
Go easy on him. There has to be someone out there who is susceptible to uncontrolled anecdotal claims. Otherwise all those TV marketers of towels and epoxy and other "must-have" products would lose their livings.
Lightning78
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Lightning78 4/24/2009 11:55am
4/24/2009 11:55am
Yes I saw the screen vs no screen debate Im sure he took that into consideration when posting the dyno results if not then I retract my statement until he does so but as you can see Jesse himself was suprised by the results, does that at least tell you something? I have been a fan of this stuff since it came out and not a single engine problem. Do I notice the HP? No but he was asked to test it in an unbaised environment and came away impressed it's apparent the stuff works very well and protects the engine at least as well as other products plus the ease of use
flarider
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flarider 4/24/2009 11:55am
4/24/2009 11:55am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 11:33pm
Lightning78 wrote:
Even when it is put right in front of you on a dyno plain as day some still can't accept it is a superior product. Wow...
Even when it is put right in front of you on a dyno plain as day some still can't accept it is a superior product. Wow that is simply amazing .....seems no matter what there are a few in every bunch.

I've been using No Toil for years and it is the BEST filter product available.
Who said that?

I don't remember seeing anyone in this thread saying No Toil was no good, can you show me where?


I think people are only asking for apples to apples in regards to dyno numbers

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