Did Bubba get outside assistance?

GuyB
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3/8/2009 4:14am
It's been explained three times already, but what they did was within the rules. Also, from what I saw, he wasn't pushed, just held up, and he started it on his own.
Xavier
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3/8/2009 4:30am
GuyB wrote:
It's been explained three times already, but what they did was within the rules. Also, from what I saw, he wasn't pushed, just held up, and...
It's been explained three times already, but what they did was within the rules. Also, from what I saw, he wasn't pushed, just held up, and he started it on his own.
This is an area where the FIM / AMA thing gets touchy.

ANY outside assistance at ANY other FIM event than the WSX, is a big NO-NO and has been enforced many times (I have personnally seen Davy Strijbos being DQ'd as someone just put his bike up after a first turn crash at a GP).

I guess for SX, they adopted the (much) more flexible, and probaby safer, AMA rules.

And it's probably better.

The only thing that bothers me with that rule is that -last time I checked, a while ago- not every team was allowed a "helper" inside the first turn zone, mostly the "A" teams.

Which is a very "un-championship'd" way of handling things ("the top guys need to escape asap, the others will rely on luck - or lack thereof"), in my opinion.

Maybe they changed that ?
3/8/2009 4:46am
GuyB wrote:
It's been explained three times already, but what they did was within the rules. Also, from what I saw, he wasn't pushed, just held up, and...
It's been explained three times already, but what they did was within the rules. Also, from what I saw, he wasn't pushed, just held up, and he started it on his own.
So let me get this straight, holding someone's bike up while they're standing on the pegs to kick it over isn't classed as outside assistance. But using a block just to touch the ground behind the gates when starting is? I'm confussed
mrquick
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3/8/2009 5:46am
I watched it over and over in slo-mo and it was Brooks that held the bike up
so stewart could start it...I'll need to see a link to the rule book stating that its ok to help your rider start his bike before I believe it wasn't cheating...Now ,anyone going to bat for brooks /stewart please show me in the rule book where it's ok to do this.....waiting.

Please don't post that its ok to push the bike off the track ...this is understandable.

The Shop

3/8/2009 6:04am
Here you go under sections 1.3 motocross meets number 11
mrquick
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3/8/2009 6:30am
Stoop wrote:
Here you go under sections 1.3 motocross meets number 11
11. If a rider stops for any reason during an event, he must
restart without any outside assistance. However, if a rider
falls, blocking the course and endangering other riders, he
may receive help or have his machine pushed off the
course. An attempt to help under any other situation will
result in the rider’s disqualification.
catatonic
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3/8/2009 6:34am
In all honesty....would any Reed fan want to see Stewart DQ'ed???
I would think Reed and Reed fans would rather see him win the crown without a Stewart DQ.
mrquick
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3/8/2009 6:43am
catatonic wrote:
In all honesty....would any Reed fan want to see Stewart DQ'ed??? I would think Reed and Reed fans would rather see him win the crown without...
In all honesty....would any Reed fan want to see Stewart DQ'ed???
I would think Reed and Reed fans would rather see him win the crown without a Stewart DQ.
First and foremost,I'm not a reed fan.I'm for Alessi and anyone who beats stewart.

So if stewart violates the ama rules it's ok because of his popularity?
SteveS
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3/8/2009 6:51am
You have to look at the correct rulebook to get the correct rules. You guys were looking at the AMA amateur rulebook. Here's the AMA Supercross rulebook for 2009: http://www.amasupercross.com/rules/pdf/SX%202009%20Rulebook%20Final%20f…

Here's the salient portion:

g.
Outside assistance to a rider on the course is forbidden at all times except when the assistance is given by flag marshals or officials placed by the Race Director for the purpose of control and safety with the following exceptions:
1.
Assistance by crew members is permitted only in the designated repair and signaling zone.
2.
Assistance by crew members is permitted from the starting gate up through the first turn following the start of a moto. (first lap only) These crew members must be wearing a special pass/armband.
h.
A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the track at the closest point to where the rider left the course without gaining an advantage. It will be the duty of the Race Director or his designee to make the determination as to whether a rider gained an advantage by leaving the race course and re-entering.
i.
A rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.
catatonic
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3/8/2009 6:53am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:49pm
So if stewart violates the ama rules it's ok because of his popularity?
thats not what I said........I think a dq for what happened though would be ridiculous.
he didnt tell Brooks to hold the bike, he started it himself and lets face it....if it started like that it would have started anyway.
If it is indeed illegal then Brooks should have known better.
davis224
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Fantasy
3/8/2009 6:58am
Stoop wrote:
Here you go under sections 1.3 motocross meets number 11
mrquick wrote:
11. If a rider stops for any reason during an event, he must restart without any outside assistance. However, if a rider falls, blocking the course...
11. If a rider stops for any reason during an event, he must
restart without any outside assistance. However, if a rider
falls, blocking the course and endangering other riders, he
may receive help or have his machine pushed off the
course. An attempt to help under any other situation will
result in the rider’s disqualification.
according to this, it's perfectly legal.
However, if a rider falls, blocking the course and endangering other riders, he may recieve help or have his machine pushed off the course.
3/8/2009 7:10am
catatonic wrote:
In all honesty....would any Reed fan want to see Stewart DQ'ed??? I would think Reed and Reed fans would rather see him win the crown without...
In all honesty....would any Reed fan want to see Stewart DQ'ed???
I would think Reed and Reed fans would rather see him win the crown without a Stewart DQ.
In all honesty would any stewart fan want him to win the championship by cheating?
3/8/2009 7:12am
catatonic wrote:
So if stewart violates the ama rules it's ok because of his popularity? thats not what I said........I think a dq for what happened though would...
So if stewart violates the ama rules it's ok because of his popularity?
thats not what I said........I think a dq for what happened though would be ridiculous.
he didnt tell Brooks to hold the bike, he started it himself and lets face it....if it started like that it would have started anyway.
If it is indeed illegal then Brooks should have known better.
A rider is responsible for his crew. Especially when the team member is the manager!
catatonic
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3/8/2009 7:14am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:49pm
catatonic wrote:
In all honesty....would any Reed fan want to see Stewart DQ'ed??? I would think Reed and Reed fans would rather see him win the crown without...
In all honesty....would any Reed fan want to see Stewart DQ'ed???
I would think Reed and Reed fans would rather see him win the crown without a Stewart DQ.
tcannon521 wrote:
In all honesty would any stewart fan want him to win the championship by cheating?
Its been proven legal and even if it wasnt I dont think it was any type of "infraction" that would warrant a dq.
I wouldnt want any rider even if they werent in the points chase to suffer a dq for something like that
catatonic
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3/8/2009 7:15am
catatonic wrote:
So if stewart violates the ama rules it's ok because of his popularity? thats not what I said........I think a dq for what happened though would...
So if stewart violates the ama rules it's ok because of his popularity?
thats not what I said........I think a dq for what happened though would be ridiculous.
he didnt tell Brooks to hold the bike, he started it himself and lets face it....if it started like that it would have started anyway.
If it is indeed illegal then Brooks should have known better.
tcannon521 wrote:
A rider is responsible for his crew. Especially when the team member is the manager!
your right....take the 7th place away and and ban him from the sport.
neysbo
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3/8/2009 7:15am
Are you Reed fans that dumb, what happened in the first corner was legal as has been pointed out and quoted from the rulebook like 5 times and you still cannot get it.

Also if there was not outside assistance for all the riders in the first turn crash that race would have got red flagged.
flarider
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3/8/2009 7:20am
ocscottie wrote:
Each team has at least one spotter in the 1st turn, assistance is allowed. Not sure how far they can take it, but its been that...
Each team has at least one spotter in the 1st turn, assistance is allowed. Not sure how far they can take it, but its been that way for a long time.
That's correct.

Stop acting like little girls fighting over which Jonas Brother is cuter
3/8/2009 7:21am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:49pm
I never said it was an infraction. I was just asking a question about your question.


Btw, if it was red flagged Stewart would have not been able to restart since he caused it. I think that is correct in sx.
neysbo
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3/8/2009 7:24am
tcannon521 wrote:
I never said it was an infraction. I was just asking a question about your question. Btw, if it was red flagged Stewart would have not...
I never said it was an infraction. I was just asking a question about your question.


Btw, if it was red flagged Stewart would have not been able to restart since he caused it. I think that is correct in sx.
If you look back at Indy , Durham did a similar thing and it got red flagged and he was able to restart without penalty.
txmxer
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3/8/2009 7:32am
what a stupid discussion. Some of you act like this is the first AMA race you've ever seen this happen. It happens all the time and nobody gets penalized for what was done last night.

flarider
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3/8/2009 7:33am
tcannon521 wrote:
I never said it was an infraction. I was just asking a question about your question. Btw, if it was red flagged Stewart would have not...
I never said it was an infraction. I was just asking a question about your question.


Btw, if it was red flagged Stewart would have not been able to restart since he caused it. I think that is correct in sx.
Wrong again

3/8/2009 7:37am
What else am I wrong about?
3/8/2009 7:41am
I said I wasn't sure in case you didn't read my whole post.

What is a cause for not being allowed to restart. I thought there was something.
jmar
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3/8/2009 8:08am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:49pm
ocscottie wrote:
Each team has at least one spotter in the 1st turn, assistance is allowed. Not sure how far they can take it, but its been that...
Each team has at least one spotter in the 1st turn, assistance is allowed. Not sure how far they can take it, but its been that way for a long time.
I don't believe that's right ocscottie. My son has been on several teams and we were never allowed a spotter on the first turn. I think the OEMs are allowed to have people at the first turn but not each team.

Lycopene
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3/8/2009 9:02am
SteveS wrote:
You have to look at the correct rulebook to get the correct rules. You guys were looking at the AMA amateur rulebook. Here's the AMA Supercross...
You have to look at the correct rulebook to get the correct rules. You guys were looking at the AMA amateur rulebook. Here's the AMA Supercross rulebook for 2009: http://www.amasupercross.com/rules/pdf/SX%202009%20Rulebook%20Final%20f…

Here's the salient portion:

g.
Outside assistance to a rider on the course is forbidden at all times except when the assistance is given by flag marshals or officials placed by the Race Director for the purpose of control and safety with the following exceptions:
1.
Assistance by crew members is permitted only in the designated repair and signaling zone.
2.
Assistance by crew members is permitted from the starting gate up through the first turn following the start of a moto. (first lap only) These crew members must be wearing a special pass/armband.
h.
A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the track at the closest point to where the rider left the course without gaining an advantage. It will be the duty of the Race Director or his designee to make the determination as to whether a rider gained an advantage by leaving the race course and re-entering.
i.
A rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.
This seems pretty cut and dry to me. Bubba was allowed help in the first turn, as was anyone else. First lap only.

I may be biased being a Bubba fan, but he was going pretty fast after he was taken out in the first turn. The replay looked really bad on the big screen. next year i want to try and get closer or on the infield.

It was a really fun race and much better weather then last year, and good food too.
Void Main
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3/8/2009 9:32am
SteveS wrote:
You have to look at the correct rulebook to get the correct rules. You guys were looking at the AMA amateur rulebook. Here's the AMA Supercross...
You have to look at the correct rulebook to get the correct rules. You guys were looking at the AMA amateur rulebook. Here's the AMA Supercross rulebook for 2009: http://www.amasupercross.com/rules/pdf/SX%202009%20Rulebook%20Final%20f…

Here's the salient portion:

g.
Outside assistance to a rider on the course is forbidden at all times except when the assistance is given by flag marshals or officials placed by the Race Director for the purpose of control and safety with the following exceptions:
1.
Assistance by crew members is permitted only in the designated repair and signaling zone.
2.
Assistance by crew members is permitted from the starting gate up through the first turn following the start of a moto. (first lap only) These crew members must be wearing a special pass/armband.
h.
A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the track at the closest point to where the rider left the course without gaining an advantage. It will be the duty of the Race Director or his designee to make the determination as to whether a rider gained an advantage by leaving the race course and re-entering.
i.
A rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.
Lycopene wrote:
This seems pretty cut and dry to me. Bubba was allowed help in the first turn, as was anyone else. First lap only. I may be...
This seems pretty cut and dry to me. Bubba was allowed help in the first turn, as was anyone else. First lap only.

I may be biased being a Bubba fan, but he was going pretty fast after he was taken out in the first turn. The replay looked really bad on the big screen. next year i want to try and get closer or on the infield.

It was a really fun race and much better weather then last year, and good food too.
I may be biased being a Bubba fan, but he was going pretty fast after he was taken out in the first turn.

Just curious who took James out in the first turn?
catatonic
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3/8/2009 9:37am
SteveS wrote:
You have to look at the correct rulebook to get the correct rules. You guys were looking at the AMA amateur rulebook. Here's the AMA Supercross...
You have to look at the correct rulebook to get the correct rules. You guys were looking at the AMA amateur rulebook. Here's the AMA Supercross rulebook for 2009: http://www.amasupercross.com/rules/pdf/SX%202009%20Rulebook%20Final%20f…

Here's the salient portion:

g.
Outside assistance to a rider on the course is forbidden at all times except when the assistance is given by flag marshals or officials placed by the Race Director for the purpose of control and safety with the following exceptions:
1.
Assistance by crew members is permitted only in the designated repair and signaling zone.
2.
Assistance by crew members is permitted from the starting gate up through the first turn following the start of a moto. (first lap only) These crew members must be wearing a special pass/armband.
h.
A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the track at the closest point to where the rider left the course without gaining an advantage. It will be the duty of the Race Director or his designee to make the determination as to whether a rider gained an advantage by leaving the race course and re-entering.
i.
A rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.
Lycopene wrote:
This seems pretty cut and dry to me. Bubba was allowed help in the first turn, as was anyone else. First lap only. I may be...
This seems pretty cut and dry to me. Bubba was allowed help in the first turn, as was anyone else. First lap only.

I may be biased being a Bubba fan, but he was going pretty fast after he was taken out in the first turn. The replay looked really bad on the big screen. next year i want to try and get closer or on the infield.

It was a really fun race and much better weather then last year, and good food too.
Void Main wrote:
[i]I may be biased being a Bubba fan, but he was going pretty fast after [b]he was taken out in the first turn[/b].[/i] Just curious who...
I may be biased being a Bubba fan, but he was going pretty fast after he was taken out in the first turn.

Just curious who took James out in the first turn?
Bridgestone and Excel.
bvm111
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3/8/2009 9:45am
Didnt Hill get outside assistance when bubbles tried to start his bike for him.... HAHAHAHAHAHHAH that was funny!!! Woohoo
typ2vw159
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3/8/2009 9:49am
peelout719 wrote:
pretty sure if it were reed receiving outside assistance, a head would be on a platter... maybe even a 25 point penalty
Probably but no ama intervention is needed or wanted whether it is Jlaw's short cut or James assistance. Just let the boys race, when the AMA...
Probably but no ama intervention is needed or wanted whether it is Jlaw's short cut or James assistance.

Just let the boys race, when the AMA get involved it all turns to shit.

i.e. lead in the fuel crap.
WERD!!!!!!
3/8/2009 9:49am
catatonic wrote:
In all honesty....would any Reed fan want to see Stewart DQ'ed??? I would think Reed and Reed fans would rather see him win the crown without...
In all honesty....would any Reed fan want to see Stewart DQ'ed???
I would think Reed and Reed fans would rather see him win the crown without a Stewart DQ.
mrquick wrote:
First and foremost,I'm not a reed fan.I'm for Alessi and anyone who beats stewart. So if stewart violates the ama rules it's ok because of his...
First and foremost,I'm not a reed fan.I'm for Alessi and anyone who beats stewart.

So if stewart violates the ama rules it's ok because of his popularity?
Like that fuel issue with RC?..

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