2 strokes in 2010

Big E
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Orange, CA, USA
Edited Date/Time 1/26/2012 9:28am
I understand what MX Sports is doing by trying to keep the 250F class fair. Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki don't have them any more.

BUT...i will bet if it was announced NOW that in 2010 that you could race a 250 2 stroke in the 250 class next year(Nationals), they could ramp up and build the last years bike they made and keep the 2 stroke dream alive!

Privateers would have a chance then.

Manufactures would have a chance to make a small production amount of bikes and everyone would win.

What do you guys think?
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crowe176
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Spring Lake, MI, USA
3/7/2009 10:54am
I think the OEM's don't give a fuck about joe blow privateer or a 2 stroke.
bvm111
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3/7/2009 11:01am Edited Date/Time 3/7/2009 11:01am
it was the OEM's that shot down 2 strokes in the 09 nationals...... it was the OEM's that killed off the 2 stroke not the AMA!
Chad McCan
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Kansas City, MO, USA
3/7/2009 11:29am
It's not good for the OEM's to have to build another entire line of bikes. It's not good for dealers to have to stock another entire line of bikes. It's not good for dealers to have to stock another entire line of parts. Just let them go, it's better this way.
Big E
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Location
Orange, CA, USA
3/7/2009 11:32am
crowe176 wrote:
I think the OEM's don't give a fuck about joe blow privateer or a 2 stroke.
I think the tune would change if they OEMs could sell them again.

The whole environmental impact of a 2 stroke being more polluting about 7 years ago is bunk know. There are outboard 2 stroke motors that are cleaner and produce more torque now.

The Shop

catatonic
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1575
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Location
Cape cod, MA, USA
3/7/2009 11:32am
Chad McCan wrote:
It's not good for the OEM's to have to build another entire line of bikes. It's not good for dealers to have to stock another entire...
It's not good for the OEM's to have to build another entire line of bikes. It's not good for dealers to have to stock another entire line of bikes. It's not good for dealers to have to stock another entire line of parts. Just let them go, it's better this way.
no
Ozzy
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1115
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Location
Santa Clarita, CA, USA
3/7/2009 11:46am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:48pm
It's amazing how blind some seem to be on this subject.
Sorry no-disrespect, but though I love 2 stks. too, they
can't co-exist unless rules are changed to aid the 2stk.
450's & 250 2stks. raced together. It's on TV now, 2003
races. But the facts are facts. The 450's then were under
developed. As the yrs. went on, you simply had to be on a
450. To race together again, 2stks. would have to be allowed
to be "bored & stroked" to a set limit so things would become
even. As far as 250F's against 250 2stks. , that ones really unfair.
The 2 stks. will trounce the 250F's. That's a fact. Right off the bat,
250F's won't be able to compete or keep up. 250 2stks. are much
lighter & quicker out of the box & so on. For MX Sports to want such,
amazes me, as in the amateurs you saw the results. The 250 2stks.
walked away from the 250F's hands down. There it's an unfair advantage.
Sure a "united 250 class" is a nice thought, but so is winning the lottery.
250F's have to go against 125 2stks. that are allowed to be "bored & stroked"
to a set limit, then things would become even. These discussions are funny
to me. Again, any experienced person should realize the same. Mine isn't only
my opinion, but experience in what I know to be true. Again, a "united 250 class'
is a nice thought, but bike for bike it would never work. Rule changes, yes!
Commonsense to me. Gotta read the fine print. On the surface, no way!
Dave O.Wink





Cygnus
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3/7/2009 11:53am
3/7/2009 11:55am
Post like
Ozzy
day.
3MTA3
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Location
San Clemente, CA, USA
3/7/2009 12:01pm
Big E wrote:
I understand what MX Sports is doing by trying to keep the 250F class fair. Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki don't have them any more. [b]BUT[/b]...i will...
I understand what MX Sports is doing by trying to keep the 250F class fair. Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki don't have them any more.

BUT...i will bet if it was announced NOW that in 2010 that you could race a 250 2 stroke in the 250 class next year(Nationals), they could ramp up and build the last years bike they made and keep the 2 stroke dream alive!

Privateers would have a chance then.

Manufactures would have a chance to make a small production amount of bikes and everyone would win.

What do you guys think?
I think it's totally f'ed . Not so much for the pro racing, although that would be interesting to watch. More so for the average guy who rides/races a lot and is on a budget. The dwindling supply of OEMS makes that difficult.

We put a shit load of hours on our 4 stroke bikes and the maintenance sucks! I could only imagine how bad it would be if we didn't ride Red!

bigcat
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N, TX, USA
3/7/2009 12:19pm
Chad McCan wrote:
It's not good for the OEM's to have to build another entire line of bikes. It's not good for dealers to have to stock another entire...
It's not good for the OEM's to have to build another entire line of bikes. It's not good for dealers to have to stock another entire line of bikes. It's not good for dealers to have to stock another entire line of parts. Just let them go, it's better this way.
THATS THE DUMBEST POST OF THE THREAD...
tunedlength
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Location
Ontario, CA, USA
3/7/2009 12:34pm
Chad McCan wrote:
It's not good for the OEM's to have to build another entire line of bikes. It's not good for dealers to have to stock another entire...
It's not good for the OEM's to have to build another entire line of bikes. It's not good for dealers to have to stock another entire line of bikes. It's not good for dealers to have to stock another entire line of parts. Just let them go, it's better this way.
"If" they allowed 2strokes to run in some competitive fashion and "If" they could respond to the environmental issues (this looks more plausible with each passing day). In five years dealers would have a less expensive product to sell.
The end user would have a more durable/affordable bike to use.
We would no doubt see more participants in the sport.
The sound issue as it relates to land closures would improve tremendously.
prillernut
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Chapel Hill, NC, USA
3/7/2009 1:23pm
I've come to realize we're looking at this all the wrong way - we should be happy, and thankful the manufacturers are giving us all these fine 4-strokes now.... we'll be looking back at them wishfully when diesels are all the rage...
OW38B
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Coto de Caza, CA, USA
3/7/2009 1:27pm
prillernut wrote:
I've come to realize we're looking at this all the wrong way - we should be happy, and thankful the manufacturers are giving us all these...
I've come to realize we're looking at this all the wrong way - we should be happy, and thankful the manufacturers are giving us all these fine 4-strokes now.... we'll be looking back at them wishfully when diesels are all the rage...
Electric motor motocrossers are the next step.......
bd
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Location
Las Vegas, NV, USA
3/7/2009 1:28pm
Correct me if I'm wrong... they didn't have a problem running 400 F in the 250 class? DH wins his first race on the F in Vegas in '97. The light bulb didn't come on?

250 T vs 250 F = Fair
450 Class = Open class
prillernut
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3/7/2009 1:31pm
prillernut wrote:
I've come to realize we're looking at this all the wrong way - we should be happy, and thankful the manufacturers are giving us all these...
I've come to realize we're looking at this all the wrong way - we should be happy, and thankful the manufacturers are giving us all these fine 4-strokes now.... we'll be looking back at them wishfully when diesels are all the rage...
OW38B wrote:
Electric motor motocrossers are the next step.......
yeah, thanks - actually that's more correct...
like I was sayin', we oughta be thankful for our internal combustion engine bikes now, while we still have them Wink
mosslander
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Travad, SE
3/7/2009 1:35pm
What says that Honda,Suzuki,Kawasaki can't change their minds and make 2 strokes?
Big E
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Location
Orange, CA, USA
3/7/2009 1:45pm
mosslander wrote:
What says that Honda,Suzuki,Kawasaki can't change their minds and make 2 strokes?
EXACTLY!

THEY HAVE ALL THE TOOLING TO DO IT!
mosslander
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3/7/2009 1:53pm
mosslander wrote:
What says that Honda,Suzuki,Kawasaki can't change their minds and make 2 strokes?
Big E wrote:
EXACTLY!

THEY HAVE ALL THE TOOLING TO DO IT!
And the professor 2 stroke get his job back
IntenseRider
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Mc Donald, PA, USA
3/7/2009 2:32pm
Ozzy wrote:
It's amazing how blind some seem to be on this subject. Sorry no-disrespect, but though I love 2 stks. too, they can't co-exist unless rules are...
It's amazing how blind some seem to be on this subject.
Sorry no-disrespect, but though I love 2 stks. too, they
can't co-exist unless rules are changed to aid the 2stk.
450's & 250 2stks. raced together. It's on TV now, 2003
races. But the facts are facts. The 450's then were under
developed. As the yrs. went on, you simply had to be on a
450. To race together again, 2stks. would have to be allowed
to be "bored & stroked" to a set limit so things would become
even. As far as 250F's against 250 2stks. , that ones really unfair.
The 2 stks. will trounce the 250F's. That's a fact. Right off the bat,
250F's won't be able to compete or keep up. 250 2stks. are much
lighter & quicker out of the box & so on. For MX Sports to want such,
amazes me, as in the amateurs you saw the results. The 250 2stks.
walked away from the 250F's hands down. There it's an unfair advantage.
Sure a "united 250 class" is a nice thought, but so is winning the lottery.
250F's have to go against 125 2stks. that are allowed to be "bored & stroked"
to a set limit, then things would become even. These discussions are funny
to me. Again, any experienced person should realize the same. Mine isn't only
my opinion, but experience in what I know to be true. Again, a "united 250 class'
is a nice thought, but bike for bike it would never work. Rule changes, yes!
Commonsense to me. Gotta read the fine print. On the surface, no way!
Dave O.Wink





I thought that the original rules had classes based on displacement, not number of strokes. The only reason that the 4T's have become so competitive is that they can run double the displacement.

I still think the AMA played a huge hand in the current demise of the 2T because they created the rule to allow more than double the displacement for 4T bikes (525cc originally for the "250" class I belive). Yamaha was smart enough to take advantage of the rules and changed the market. Now lots of folks (myself included) are beginning to realize the ancillary costs associated with the 4T bikes and they're wanting a 2T again. I have already switched back to a 2T and really enjoy only kicking the bike once when it's hot.

What if Ford said, "hey NASCAR, even though the displacement limit is 358, we have a new V10 we're developing that is a 451. Can you stretch the rules so we can run against the smaller blocks? You can? Great. Can you also ignore the HP advantage we'll gain? Super...thanks NASCAR." To me, that's what the AMA did when they allowed the 4T displacement advantage. Anywho, like you said, the topic makes for some great fodder regardless of which stroke you're on Smile
AMA714
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San Antonio, TX, USA
3/7/2009 3:06pm
mosslander wrote:
What says that Honda,Suzuki,Kawasaki can't change their minds and make 2 strokes?
Big E wrote:
EXACTLY!

THEY HAVE ALL THE TOOLING TO DO IT!
They already sold the tooling to the Chinese!! Pretty soon we will have a Chinzang CR 250..... LOL
mxpimp
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Seattle, WA, USA
3/7/2009 3:09pm
mosslander wrote:
What says that Honda,Suzuki,Kawasaki can't change their minds and make 2 strokes?
Big E wrote:
EXACTLY!

THEY HAVE ALL THE TOOLING TO DO IT!
2 strokes are already made. They just don't import them to the US. Europe gets them.
croom mx
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Location
miami, FL, USA
3/7/2009 3:48pm
The bad economy will bring back 2 strokes , its a matter of time.
Big E
Posts
460
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Location
Orange, CA, USA
3/7/2009 3:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:48pm
mosslander wrote:
What says that Honda,Suzuki,Kawasaki can't change their minds and make 2 strokes?
Big E wrote:
EXACTLY!

THEY HAVE ALL THE TOOLING TO DO IT!
mxpimp wrote:
2 strokes are already made. They just don't import them to the US. Europe gets them.
Yup!


I hope the manufactures get a clue and realize they can sell 2 strokes here.


Cheaper to buy

Cheaper to Maint.

Funner to ride!
txmxer
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Location
Weatherford, TX, USA
3/7/2009 4:03pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:48pm
Ozzy wrote:
It's amazing how blind some seem to be on this subject. Sorry no-disrespect, but though I love 2 stks. too, they can't co-exist unless rules are...
It's amazing how blind some seem to be on this subject.
Sorry no-disrespect, but though I love 2 stks. too, they
can't co-exist unless rules are changed to aid the 2stk.
450's & 250 2stks. raced together. It's on TV now, 2003
races. But the facts are facts. The 450's then were under
developed. As the yrs. went on, you simply had to be on a
450. To race together again, 2stks. would have to be allowed
to be "bored & stroked" to a set limit so things would become
even. As far as 250F's against 250 2stks. , that ones really unfair.
The 2 stks. will trounce the 250F's. That's a fact. Right off the bat,
250F's won't be able to compete or keep up. 250 2stks. are much
lighter & quicker out of the box & so on. For MX Sports to want such,
amazes me, as in the amateurs you saw the results. The 250 2stks.
walked away from the 250F's hands down. There it's an unfair advantage.
Sure a "united 250 class" is a nice thought, but so is winning the lottery.
250F's have to go against 125 2stks. that are allowed to be "bored & stroked"
to a set limit, then things would become even. These discussions are funny
to me. Again, any experienced person should realize the same. Mine isn't only
my opinion, but experience in what I know to be true. Again, a "united 250 class'
is a nice thought, but bike for bike it would never work. Rule changes, yes!
Commonsense to me. Gotta read the fine print. On the surface, no way!
Dave O.Wink





As far as 250F's against 250 2stks. , that ones really unfair.
The 2 stks. will trounce the 250F's. That's a fact. Right off the bat,
250F's won't be able to compete or keep up. 250 2stks. are much
lighter & quicker out of the box & so on. For MX Sports to want such,
amazes me, as in the amateurs you saw the results. The 250 2stks.
walked away from the 250F's hands down. There it's an unfair advantage.


Is that a fact? I don't follow amateur racing. Have the 2 strokes changed the guys winning races? Did someone who has won a lot come out on a 4 stroke and get beat badly by someone on a 2 stroke....then change bikes then start winning again?

Enlighten me.
Cygnus
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Hanover, CO, USA
3/7/2009 4:09pm
mxpimp wrote:
2 strokes are already made. They just don't import them to the US. Europe gets them.
Bullshit! You can only get the same 2t's as here.
andymoto
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Location
Carmichael, CA, USA
3/7/2009 4:31pm
Just keep reading the General and keep hoping.

Government is going to hose dirtbikers; you watch..

Get a good one off Craigslist and just be happy.

Or have fun building your own like newmann, Pipe and others do.
AJ
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Location
Lowell, IN, USA
3/7/2009 4:53pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:48pm
I would have liked to get a Team, and a few privateers going this year on our 250 2- strokes..

i'm certainly bummed , but can understand the disadvantage is unfair.
A 250 2 stroke is superior if pitted agaisnt the same displacement, it couldnt be more clear by the factory teams ckilling this rule proposal ? and thats funny that the OEM team's wernt crying when they were allowed to get a big advantge over the 125 though ?


anyway , mute point !!
it isnt going to happen this year..
(and i doubt ever)


i do wonder why a 500 2 stroke isnt allowed in the *cough* 450 class though, as the disparity isnt much when getting into the open class displacement size?
and what would it hurt?> just allow a few guys a choice of bikes?

ohh wait, thats right,they cant be alloqwed i nthat class because that's really the 250 class.

irony at its best eh?

Smile


I think i'll work to see if that can happen ,,
since the 250 thing dint work out .. Sad






croom mx
Posts
1964
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
miami, FL, USA
3/7/2009 5:09pm Edited Date/Time 3/7/2009 5:10pm
AJ wrote:
I would have liked to get a Team, and a few privateers going this year on our 250 2- strokes.. i'm certainly bummed , but can...
I would have liked to get a Team, and a few privateers going this year on our 250 2- strokes..

i'm certainly bummed , but can understand the disadvantage is unfair.
A 250 2 stroke is superior if pitted agaisnt the same displacement, it couldnt be more clear by the factory teams ckilling this rule proposal ? and thats funny that the OEM team's wernt crying when they were allowed to get a big advantge over the 125 though ?


anyway , mute point !!
it isnt going to happen this year..
(and i doubt ever)


i do wonder why a 500 2 stroke isnt allowed in the *cough* 450 class though, as the disparity isnt much when getting into the open class displacement size?
and what would it hurt?> just allow a few guys a choice of bikes?

ohh wait, thats right,they cant be alloqwed i nthat class because that's really the 250 class.

irony at its best eh?

Smile


I think i'll work to see if that can happen ,,
since the 250 thing dint work out .. Sad






AJ you need to push the envelope and try to get 2 strokes involved in more comp. You have more to gain than we do. Have you talked to MX Sports Loretta Lynn I think they want 2 stroke classes. A few phone calls would help dont you think.

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