MX Sports Issues Statement Regarding 250 Class for 2009 Lucas Oil AMA Pro Motocross Championship

DrSweden
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3/5/2009 1:47am
That is too bad. At least Europe agreed to 250 parity this year.
Is this for real? That sounds fantastic if it's true. Damn, I get a boner! Smile
RMZ819
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3/5/2009 2:16am Edited Date/Time 3/5/2009 2:18am
lostboy819 wrote:
What a copout from MX sports. 250 vs 250 is just what the sport needs not some more AMA style bull s**t no backbone decision making...
What a copout from MX sports. 250 vs 250 is just what the sport needs not some more AMA style bull s**t no backbone decision making. Before long it will be too late and Motocross will die down to nothing.
DC and company are the capones of this sport. Everything goes through them. Always has and always will till this sport dies.
Jaze
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3/5/2009 2:20am
That is too bad. At least Europe agreed to 250 parity this year.
DrSweden wrote:
Is this for real? That sounds fantastic if it's true. Damn, I get a boner! Smile
I Don´t think that is true.
If you look at FIM rules you don´t see anything about that...
DrSweden
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3/5/2009 2:23am
Jaze wrote:
I Don´t think that is true.
If you look at FIM rules you don´t see anything about that...
Crap, that figures. Why would treat Europe differently? Still with KTM ruling in Europe, I say let the Japs go, and let KTM do the show in Europe! Smile They have two strokes left, and they where positive!

The Shop

indy_maico
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3/5/2009 5:43am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:46pm
Jaze wrote:
I Don´t think that is true.
If you look at FIM rules you don´t see anything about that...
DrSweden wrote:
Crap, that figures. Why would treat Europe differently? Still with KTM ruling in Europe, I say let the Japs go, and let KTM do the show...
Crap, that figures. Why would treat Europe differently? Still with KTM ruling in Europe, I say let the Japs go, and let KTM do the show in Europe! Smile They have two strokes left, and they where positive!
It is 2010 for the all-inclusive 250 class for FIM GP's.

Unless Kawasaki, Honda & Suzuki are willing to hand the 250 World Championship to Yamaha or KTM on a silver platter, they are going to have to start building smokers again.

indy_maico
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3/5/2009 5:44am
The 250 Two stroke makes more power regardless....if you really want it fair for a factory 250f and a privateer racing a 250 2 stroke then...
The 250 Two stroke makes more power regardless....if you really want it fair for a factory 250f and a privateer racing a 250 2 stroke then the engine would have to remain stock on the 2 stroke i.e. no porting etc. Then the HP numbers would be equal and thus the class would be as fair as possible but a fully built 250 smoker would make way more power than a modded (even factory) 250f..... after all they were able to get 56 Hp out of RC's factory Honda in 02, that's what 450's are producing.
A stock 250 2-stroke out of the box makes 10 more hp and weighs 10 lbs less than the best modified 4-stroke 250.
prillernut
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3/5/2009 5:53am
Jaze wrote:
I Don´t think that is true.
If you look at FIM rules you don´t see anything about that...
DrSweden wrote:
Crap, that figures. Why would treat Europe differently? Still with KTM ruling in Europe, I say let the Japs go, and let KTM do the show...
Crap, that figures. Why would treat Europe differently? Still with KTM ruling in Europe, I say let the Japs go, and let KTM do the show in Europe! Smile They have two strokes left, and they where positive!
indy_maico wrote:
It is 2010 for the all-inclusive 250 class for FIM GP's. Unless Kawasaki, Honda & Suzuki are willing to hand the 250 World Championship to Yamaha...
It is 2010 for the all-inclusive 250 class for FIM GP's.

Unless Kawasaki, Honda & Suzuki are willing to hand the 250 World Championship to Yamaha or KTM on a silver platter, they are going to have to start building smokers again.

wow, if the FIM holds to that, that's great news - 2010 could be the beginning of very interesting period of time.
-eagle-
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3/5/2009 6:17am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:46pm
Would have gained respect with a short, concise, legitimate reason.

Lost respect with the long winded bullshit that lays the blame on issues not pertaining to the national mx series.


I'm not going to start any octopus shit in here but it seems like the amateur dept. of the morgantown mafia would deal with the lead laws. Not the people in charge of revamping the professional nationals.


Then they drop the midway through sx bullshit. 1. How long ago did they know they were getting the nationals, fall 08? 2. Remember the gatorback orphan national mid sx season. Or in 03-05 when guys had one week between Vegas and Glen Helen to switch from 250 smokers to 450's. None of that bullshit holds water with me.


I am stoked on them getting lucas and a tv package. I'm just as urked by the rhetoric on the 2stroke issue as I am the issue itself. Expect this kind of watered down garbage every time they have to address a sticky subject.



ACMYERS
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3/5/2009 6:35am
If you think it is apples to apples 250T vs. 250F your smoking hooch. Granted the same applied to 250f vs. 125t a few years ago.
Don't get me wrong...My younger son will be on a 250T this summer racing in the Amatuer Lites. It is cheaper on me for parts and Maintenance but, I know that it is a much faster bike than the 250F's. I will do it because the rules allow it but....It really is not fair. I just think it's funny that some of you think it's straight up. Carry on.
indy_maico
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3/5/2009 6:42am
-eagle- wrote:
Would have gained respect with a short, concise, legitimate reason. Lost respect with the long winded bullshit that lays the blame on issues not pertaining to...
Would have gained respect with a short, concise, legitimate reason.

Lost respect with the long winded bullshit that lays the blame on issues not pertaining to the national mx series.


I'm not going to start any octopus shit in here but it seems like the amateur dept. of the morgantown mafia would deal with the lead laws. Not the people in charge of revamping the professional nationals.


Then they drop the midway through sx bullshit. 1. How long ago did they know they were getting the nationals, fall 08? 2. Remember the gatorback orphan national mid sx season. Or in 03-05 when guys had one week between Vegas and Glen Helen to switch from 250 smokers to 450's. None of that bullshit holds water with me.


I am stoked on them getting lucas and a tv package. I'm just as urked by the rhetoric on the 2stroke issue as I am the issue itself. Expect this kind of watered down garbage every time they have to address a sticky subject.



Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out what the lead issue has to do with it?

I mean, if that hadn't blown up, would Hon-Kaw-Suz had 2-strokes ready to go?

It makes no sense.
Adam43
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3/5/2009 7:05am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:46pm
I appreciate Coombs & Co. looking at the option, I truly do. I think somewhere deep in their hearts they know that this is something that has to be done.

The lead thing does seem like a cop-out. There are lots of 2-strokes out there right now that could be ready to race Nationals in no time. That's what these teams and riders do. The teams aren't going to be involved in fighting a lead ban at all. It's not like its going to take a huge factory effort to get this off the ground. In fact, I would be surprised if the factories jumped at it.

No doubt there will be a lot of OEM resources dedicated to fighting this lead garbage, and rightfully so. But the racing people won't be involved with that fight, their budgets are already allocated. Plus, the whole idea with 2-strokes is that it makes the entire damn thing cheaper! They will be saving money to run one of the smokers!

Write the rule and let 'em race.
mxpimp
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3/5/2009 12:23pm Edited Date/Time 3/5/2009 1:22pm
The 250 Two stroke makes more power regardless....if you really want it fair for a factory 250f and a privateer racing a 250 2 stroke then...
The 250 Two stroke makes more power regardless....if you really want it fair for a factory 250f and a privateer racing a 250 2 stroke then the engine would have to remain stock on the 2 stroke i.e. no porting etc. Then the HP numbers would be equal and thus the class would be as fair as possible but a fully built 250 smoker would make way more power than a modded (even factory) 250f..... after all they were able to get 56 Hp out of RC's factory Honda in 02, that's what 450's are producing.
indy_maico wrote:
A stock 250 2-stroke out of the box makes 10 more hp and weighs 10 lbs less than the best modified 4-stroke 250.
Wrong! A stock 250 2-stroke does not make 10 hp more then a best modified 4 stroke. You need to pass the pipe.
indy_maico
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3/5/2009 12:32pm
The 250 Two stroke makes more power regardless....if you really want it fair for a factory 250f and a privateer racing a 250 2 stroke then...
The 250 Two stroke makes more power regardless....if you really want it fair for a factory 250f and a privateer racing a 250 2 stroke then the engine would have to remain stock on the 2 stroke i.e. no porting etc. Then the HP numbers would be equal and thus the class would be as fair as possible but a fully built 250 smoker would make way more power than a modded (even factory) 250f..... after all they were able to get 56 Hp out of RC's factory Honda in 02, that's what 450's are producing.
indy_maico wrote:
A stock 250 2-stroke out of the box makes 10 more hp and weighs 10 lbs less than the best modified 4-stroke 250.
mxpimp wrote:
Wrong! A stock 250 2-stroke does not make 10 hp more then a best modified 4 stroke. You need to pass the pipe.
Well, a 250 KTM made about 50 hp on the dyno not long ago. I doubt there are many 40 hp 250 f's out there.
DrSweden
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3/5/2009 12:45pm
indy_maico wrote:
Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out what the lead issue has to do with it? I mean, if that hadn't blown up, would Hon-Kaw-Suz had...
Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out what the lead issue has to do with it?

I mean, if that hadn't blown up, would Hon-Kaw-Suz had 2-strokes ready to go?

It makes no sense.
Good observation. I'm a bit tired of this constant bullshit going on when it was pretty clear this was newer a possibility to start with. Did Honda consider it? LOL! The people involved in this had already figured this out months ago while we here started blindfolded building up our hopes in vane. Then the bs is being served on lead plate.

Where did you get that FIM info for 2010? We can take it for real?
DrSweden
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3/5/2009 12:58pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:47pm
Damn that video was such a teaser. I don't know why, but a 250 two stroke ridding this fast makes me grin like Charley Sheen in a brothel.


This would have been SO COOL. Crappy party poppers.

AMA714
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3/5/2009 12:58pm
indy_maico wrote:
A stock 250 2-stroke out of the box makes 10 more hp and weighs 10 lbs less than the best modified 4-stroke 250.
mxpimp wrote:
Wrong! A stock 250 2-stroke does not make 10 hp more then a best modified 4 stroke. You need to pass the pipe.
indy_maico wrote:
Well, a 250 KTM made about 50 hp on the dyno not long ago. I doubt there are many 40 hp 250 f's out there.
Good thing dyno's dont race each other....

Everyone knows that in certain situations a 4 stroke puts the power down easier and is faster around a track with less HP. In the hands of a top pro a 250F is probably just as fast as a 250T...but at least the 250T will help the privateer.
Hell Villopoto turned faster lap times than most 450's all year outdoors.
TimbuK758
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3/5/2009 1:03pm
Guzzler wrote:
POOR K-DUB> if in fact he was looking at the 250 class this summer!! Talk about large ticket sales!! This sucks!!
i guess we will be lucky to see him outdoors at all now...F this...this actually depresses me...
indy_maico
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3/5/2009 1:22pm
indy_maico wrote:
Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out what the lead issue has to do with it? I mean, if that hadn't blown up, would Hon-Kaw-Suz had...
Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out what the lead issue has to do with it?

I mean, if that hadn't blown up, would Hon-Kaw-Suz had 2-strokes ready to go?

It makes no sense.
DrSweden wrote:
Good observation. I'm a bit tired of this constant bullshit going on when it was pretty clear this was newer a possibility to start with. Did...
Good observation. I'm a bit tired of this constant bullshit going on when it was pretty clear this was newer a possibility to start with. Did Honda consider it? LOL! The people involved in this had already figured this out months ago while we here started blindfolded building up our hopes in vane. Then the bs is being served on lead plate.

Where did you get that FIM info for 2010? We can take it for real?
This was dated 2007, but I haven't seen anything that contradicts it.

Official Press Release FIM, December 21 2007

A meeting of the Motocross Grand Prix Permanent Bureau, composed of Messrs. Vito Ippolito, FIM President, and Giuseppe Luongo, Youthstream President, was held on December 1st in Monaco, in the presence of Messrs Wolfgang Srb, CMS President, Guy Maitre, FIM Chief Executive Officer and Ignacio Verneda, FIM Sports Director, in order to discuss future rules of Motocross and SuperMoto. The following decisions were taken by the Permanent Bureau:

1) Mr Ippolito underlined the FIM program "significant noise reduction" in Motocross and SuperMoto, which has full support from Youthstream. A "dynamic noise test" should be introduced in MX1/2, MXoN and S1/2, SMoN as of 1.1.2009. The Technical Panel will make field tests as of the beginning of the 2008 season in order to work on the regulations for 2009.

2) Motocross Classes: as of 2010, single cylinder engines will be used in MX1 and MX2 and multi-cylinder in MX3, whether 2 or 4- stroke (open concept). The cubic capacity will be 250cc in MX2, and up to 650cc in MX3. Discussions are currently being held about the cubic capacity in MX1. A decision should be taken in the next three months.

Concerning the MX2 class, a maximum age limit of 23 years will be introduced. Moreover, a World Champion will be allowed to defend his title only one time (in the following year).

3) The FIM Junior World Championship will have an additional class as of 1.1.2010: 65cc. All the classes (65cc, 85cc, 125cc) will be exclusively 2-stroke.

4) The motorcycle minimum weights will also be reviewed by the FIM Technical Panel.

5) The FIM President asked to study the problem of electronic sophisticated technology (such as traction control, etc) in Motocross and SuperMoto. Riders should be able to show their riding skills and talent without costly technical means.
mxpimp
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3/5/2009 1:30pm
indy_maico wrote:
A stock 250 2-stroke out of the box makes 10 more hp and weighs 10 lbs less than the best modified 4-stroke 250.
mxpimp wrote:
Wrong! A stock 250 2-stroke does not make 10 hp more then a best modified 4 stroke. You need to pass the pipe.
indy_maico wrote:
Well, a 250 KTM made about 50 hp on the dyno not long ago. I doubt there are many 40 hp 250 f's out there.
Pro Circuit bikes put out 45 hp and I'm sure the big teams are over 40hp. You got it all wrong. It's not all about hp figures! It's about how the 4 strokes put the power to the ground that the 2-strokes can't match.
indy_maico
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3/5/2009 1:35pm
mxpimp wrote:
Wrong! A stock 250 2-stroke does not make 10 hp more then a best modified 4 stroke. You need to pass the pipe.
indy_maico wrote:
Well, a 250 KTM made about 50 hp on the dyno not long ago. I doubt there are many 40 hp 250 f's out there.
mxpimp wrote:
Pro Circuit bikes put out 45 hp and I'm sure the big teams are over 40hp. You got it all wrong. It's not all about hp...
Pro Circuit bikes put out 45 hp and I'm sure the big teams are over 40hp. You got it all wrong. It's not all about hp figures! It's about how the 4 strokes put the power to the ground that the 2-strokes can't match.
I've never ridden a 45 hp 4-stroke, but I would think that it must be as hard to keep on the cam as a peaky 2-stroke would be to keep on the pipe.

Not sure how it would all transfer to the ground any better than a 2-stroke.

I used the dyno figures because you were the one that said a 2-stroke doesn't make 10 more hp. How would you know without a dyno?
Rupert X
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3/5/2009 1:37pm
Let there be smoke.
Foster576
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3/5/2009 1:41pm
Rupert X wrote:
Let there be smoke.
Amen!
Crash82
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3/5/2009 1:44pm
The 250 Two stroke makes more power regardless....if you really want it fair for a factory 250f and a privateer racing a 250 2 stroke then...
The 250 Two stroke makes more power regardless....if you really want it fair for a factory 250f and a privateer racing a 250 2 stroke then the engine would have to remain stock on the 2 stroke i.e. no porting etc. Then the HP numbers would be equal and thus the class would be as fair as possible but a fully built 250 smoker would make way more power than a modded (even factory) 250f..... after all they were able to get 56 Hp out of RC's factory Honda in 02, that's what 450's are producing.
Fair? Equal cc's is fair, if the 250f's can't run with the 2 strokes, don't run them. Bring back the works bikes, here's your cc limit, let's race. jesus it ain't hard.
mxpimp
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3/5/2009 1:44pm
indy_maico wrote:
Well, a 250 KTM made about 50 hp on the dyno not long ago. I doubt there are many 40 hp 250 f's out there.
mxpimp wrote:
Pro Circuit bikes put out 45 hp and I'm sure the big teams are over 40hp. You got it all wrong. It's not all about hp...
Pro Circuit bikes put out 45 hp and I'm sure the big teams are over 40hp. You got it all wrong. It's not all about hp figures! It's about how the 4 strokes put the power to the ground that the 2-strokes can't match.
indy_maico wrote:
I've never ridden a 45 hp 4-stroke, but I would think that it must be as hard to keep on the cam as a peaky 2-stroke...
I've never ridden a 45 hp 4-stroke, but I would think that it must be as hard to keep on the cam as a peaky 2-stroke would be to keep on the pipe.

Not sure how it would all transfer to the ground any better than a 2-stroke.

I used the dyno figures because you were the one that said a 2-stroke doesn't make 10 more hp. How would you know without a dyno?
I'm just going to stop talking. There is no reason to have a debate with you if you don't know the difference between a 4-stroke and the 2-stroke.
DrSweden
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3/5/2009 1:46pm
indy_maico wrote:
This was dated 2007, but I haven't seen anything that contradicts it. Official Press Release FIM, December 21 2007 A meeting of the Motocross Grand Prix...
This was dated 2007, but I haven't seen anything that contradicts it.

Official Press Release FIM, December 21 2007

A meeting of the Motocross Grand Prix Permanent Bureau, composed of Messrs. Vito Ippolito, FIM President, and Giuseppe Luongo, Youthstream President, was held on December 1st in Monaco, in the presence of Messrs Wolfgang Srb, CMS President, Guy Maitre, FIM Chief Executive Officer and Ignacio Verneda, FIM Sports Director, in order to discuss future rules of Motocross and SuperMoto. The following decisions were taken by the Permanent Bureau:

1) Mr Ippolito underlined the FIM program "significant noise reduction" in Motocross and SuperMoto, which has full support from Youthstream. A "dynamic noise test" should be introduced in MX1/2, MXoN and S1/2, SMoN as of 1.1.2009. The Technical Panel will make field tests as of the beginning of the 2008 season in order to work on the regulations for 2009.

2) Motocross Classes: as of 2010, single cylinder engines will be used in MX1 and MX2 and multi-cylinder in MX3, whether 2 or 4- stroke (open concept). The cubic capacity will be 250cc in MX2, and up to 650cc in MX3. Discussions are currently being held about the cubic capacity in MX1. A decision should be taken in the next three months.

Concerning the MX2 class, a maximum age limit of 23 years will be introduced. Moreover, a World Champion will be allowed to defend his title only one time (in the following year).

3) The FIM Junior World Championship will have an additional class as of 1.1.2010: 65cc. All the classes (65cc, 85cc, 125cc) will be exclusively 2-stroke.

4) The motorcycle minimum weights will also be reviewed by the FIM Technical Panel.

5) The FIM President asked to study the problem of electronic sophisticated technology (such as traction control, etc) in Motocross and SuperMoto. Riders should be able to show their riding skills and talent without costly technical means.
Tnx for the info. I guess this will be change as we speak. Sad
Lightning78
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3/5/2009 2:40pm
Indy you got it right, some of these die hard 2 stroke lovers are so biased to their own side they are blinded by the simple facts of HP numbers on a 250 4t and a 250 2t THEY ARE NOT EQUAL. If some of you actually think a rider jumping up from the 85cc class to a 250 2t is just as easy as a 250 4t or that the 4t is an equal machine that is absolutely ridiculous!

I mentioned this in a earlier thread also......lets say (hypothetically) the 250 2t rule passes for the nats, the minute a rider starts winning on a 250 2t on one of the few bikes that are actually still in production the "Big other 3" would throw some weight and protest that so fast the exception would be gone faster that it was implemented .....think Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki..... you don't think their lack of still producing a 250 2t and the pull they have with the sanctioning bodies of the outdoors had anything to do with this decision? Come on now.....
3/5/2009 6:36pm
95% rider its that simple
-eagle-
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3/5/2009 8:14pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 10:47pm
mxpilot43 wrote:
95% rider its that simple
Exactly.
Pass the 250t vs 250f rulex

James could drop down and still win on his 04 kx125.
People are acting like Billy Bermbuster from Cornfield, South Dakota is going to get a yz 250 and start waxing dungey.
The point WAS simple: We are beat to death with this slow economy, no budget in mx right now bullshit. So the masses suggest a CHEAPER way to go racing and the other side makes it sound like the most ignorant thing they have ever heard.


It doesn't matter now; whats done is done. When 2010 rolls around they will sweep it under the rug again with some useless banter just like this year. If they would have just came clean from the start they wouldn't have to deal with it now, or next year.

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