Ironman MX National Bench Racing - The Motos

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Sodipop
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Sodipop 8/27/2017 9:50am
8/27/2017 9:50am
Park Boys wrote:
I'm a massive AC fan but he got torched last year by Eli, and now all the sudden he can't beat em?
RichardLoots wrote:
but you as a TC fan has to agree that todays Cairoli is a different animal as the injured one he was last year ??
Park Boys wrote:
Of course but it wouldn't have mattered. The lap Tomac passed AC in he was almost 6 seconds faster at Glen Helen Moto 2. AC is...
Of course but it wouldn't have mattered. The lap Tomac passed AC in he was almost 6 seconds faster at Glen Helen Moto 2. AC is better this year, but not that much.
Do you not understand the difference between Tomac dominating at Glen Helen and Herlings dominating at ironman?
RichardLoots 8/27/2017 9:51am
8/27/2017 9:51am Edited Date/Time 8/27/2017 9:53am
Park Boys wrote:
Of course but it wouldn't have mattered. The lap Tomac passed AC in he was almost 6 seconds faster at Glen Helen Moto 2. AC is...
Of course but it wouldn't have mattered. The lap Tomac passed AC in he was almost 6 seconds faster at Glen Helen Moto 2. AC is better this year, but not that much.
agreed , but different track and conditions this time .. Do you see Eli lapping the field again with 6 sec a lap ??
last year Eli smoked em all , lets see what happens next week
I dont think TC will risk a lot , same as Tomac didnt yesterday as he wants to secure the title first but Herlings , Gajser,Febvre etc dont have anything to loose , same as Tomac ... hope to see another epic race and the best will win that day
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 8/27/2017 9:56am
8/27/2017 9:56am
Sodipop wrote:
Do you not understand the difference between Tomac dominating at Glen Helen and Herlings dominating at ironman?
Herlings is the best motocrosser that ever lived....There do you feel better now ?
Prejump
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Prejump 8/27/2017 10:03am
8/27/2017 10:03am Edited Date/Time 8/27/2017 10:03am
RacerX8 wrote:
Yup watched Herlings beat on the 250 guys there last year, while Jmart was shaking down his new Geico ride, but that was no surprise. I'd...
Yup watched Herlings beat on the 250 guys there last year, while Jmart was shaking down his new Geico ride, but that was no surprise. I'd forgotten or did not know that TC was injured last year at that race.

We all know that a truly unrestricted ET3 has way more in the tank than what he showcased today. Is the bike a tick off and he doesn't have 100% comfort/confidence? Is there an unknown physical issue or is there something mental? Maybe he was just in Dungey/racecraft mode as best he could be, though Dungey didn't have all the little errors that Eli has.

If ET would have finished 30 sec ahead of Marvin straight up without anyone making any errors and JH still bested him, then I would believe that both riders showcased their abilities to their maximum. From past performances we know that this is not the pinnacle of Tomacs game. I do realize how ironic this paragraph is considering he just wrapped up a championship.

All these AMA/GP riders are obviously elite, though there are many tiers. I believe that there is more depth in the GP series at the moment but if you take the top 3-5 guys from each one you find another level. They are all savages that when at their best is unbelievable!

The whole two best series in MX on each side of the pond is goofy in some ways. In auto racing F1 is considered the pinnacle of auto racing, MotoGP is the top of the pavement guys so maybe the top three AMA guys should bump to MXGP? They would then be racing a world series, because call it what you want, AMA racing is national racing.

Your last point is an absolute no brainer IMO.

Not only would it better the GP's, it would better your elite riders. Tomac could spend a decent amount of time testing at Lommel for example. Team USA might actually look forward to a MXON at a euro sand track in future.

MXGP has changed a lot over the last 10 years. Less riders but better quality. The US elite should be on the bandwagon, if they continue to avoid it the gap will only grow.

I see SX becoming more & more of a specialist sport. Do the like of Herlings who already earn top money really fancy a injury like Roczen on lets face it, a stupid crash on an x games jump.

There will be guys that relish the stadium show, the steep jumps, the short track time. But as MXGP grows there is another option for the elite to dominate the world. If your not fancying the risk of SX & want another shot at the big time then MXGP should be it.

Also I think US nats would be better without the elite there. Seeing say 5th place onward fighting for wins will help inspire them & grow there confidence.



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Park Boys
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Park Boys 8/27/2017 10:32am
8/27/2017 10:32am Edited Date/Time 8/27/2017 11:12am
RichardLoots wrote:
but you as a TC fan has to agree that todays Cairoli is a different animal as the injured one he was last year ??
Park Boys wrote:
Of course but it wouldn't have mattered. The lap Tomac passed AC in he was almost 6 seconds faster at Glen Helen Moto 2. AC is...
Of course but it wouldn't have mattered. The lap Tomac passed AC in he was almost 6 seconds faster at Glen Helen Moto 2. AC is better this year, but not that much.
Sodipop wrote:
Do you not understand the difference between Tomac dominating at Glen Helen and Herlings dominating at ironman?
I do, Herlings was caught in the first Moto at two different times. First Eli, they he crashed. Then Marv was running quicker times for awhile before he fell off and in Moto 2 Marv was gone and and he crashed out. Crashing is part of the game of course, and 84 knows all about that. But there is No denying Herlings was the man yesterday. I'm Moto 1, Marv had faster lap times and in Moto 2 he was marginally faster. In both motos at Glen Helen Tomac was way faster then his competition and can't think of anyone being able to hang with him much less two different individuals. Also Tomac is much more humble on the podium after he wins as well. Do those count as differences? I already can think of your rebuttal but those are a few differences. These debates can be endless, but I enjoy em for the most part because I'm not blinded by one side over the other like you and so many more on here form both sides of the pond.
ThorsMX
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ThorsMX 8/27/2017 10:35am
8/27/2017 10:35am
"If ET would have finished 30 sec ahead of Marvin straight up without anyone making any errors and JH still bested him, then I would believe that both riders showcased their abilities to their maximum. From past performances we know that this is not the pinnacle of Tomacs game. I do realize how ironic this paragraph is considering he just wrapped up a championship."



Would have liked to see Eli run without his "inner demons" the last few rounds and finish the season like it started at Hangtown.......switch the season around and have the slow start then the killer finish would have been exciting



Park Boys
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Park Boys 8/27/2017 10:36am
8/27/2017 10:36am Edited Date/Time 8/27/2017 10:38am
Park Boys wrote:
Of course but it wouldn't have mattered. The lap Tomac passed AC in he was almost 6 seconds faster at Glen Helen Moto 2. AC is...
Of course but it wouldn't have mattered. The lap Tomac passed AC in he was almost 6 seconds faster at Glen Helen Moto 2. AC is better this year, but not that much.
RichardLoots wrote:
agreed , but different track and conditions this time .. Do you see Eli lapping the field again with 6 sec a lap ?? last year...
agreed , but different track and conditions this time .. Do you see Eli lapping the field again with 6 sec a lap ??
last year Eli smoked em all , lets see what happens next week
I dont think TC will risk a lot , same as Tomac didnt yesterday as he wants to secure the title first but Herlings , Gajser,Febvre etc dont have anything to loose , same as Tomac ... hope to see another epic race and the best will win that day
No I don't think Eli will be that much faster maybe ever again. I think 222 will just ride around like a smart man this weekend, like Tomac this weekend nothing to gain everything to lose. The difference being AC has a masssive points lead so I could potently see Him trying a bit more than Tomac but I think he will crusie this out to the end.
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Sodipop 8/27/2017 12:34pm
8/27/2017 12:34pm Edited Date/Time 8/27/2017 12:36pm
Park Boys wrote:
Of course but it wouldn't have mattered. The lap Tomac passed AC in he was almost 6 seconds faster at Glen Helen Moto 2. AC is...
Of course but it wouldn't have mattered. The lap Tomac passed AC in he was almost 6 seconds faster at Glen Helen Moto 2. AC is better this year, but not that much.
Sodipop wrote:
Do you not understand the difference between Tomac dominating at Glen Helen and Herlings dominating at ironman?
Park Boys wrote:
I do, Herlings was caught in the first Moto at two different times. First Eli, they he crashed. Then Marv was running quicker times for awhile...
I do, Herlings was caught in the first Moto at two different times. First Eli, they he crashed. Then Marv was running quicker times for awhile before he fell off and in Moto 2 Marv was gone and and he crashed out. Crashing is part of the game of course, and 84 knows all about that. But there is No denying Herlings was the man yesterday. I'm Moto 1, Marv had faster lap times and in Moto 2 he was marginally faster. In both motos at Glen Helen Tomac was way faster then his competition and can't think of anyone being able to hang with him much less two different individuals. Also Tomac is much more humble on the podium after he wins as well. Do those count as differences? I already can think of your rebuttal but those are a few differences. These debates can be endless, but I enjoy em for the most part because I'm not blinded by one side over the other like you and so many more on here form both sides of the pond.
Herlings was riding a very comfortable pace in the first moto. Marvin was going to kill himself if he kept that up. Eli got out of control trying to catch him

Also.... you are comparing Tomac entering a GP at an American track, Glen Helen with Herlings flying over 5 days before and entering a national at a track he's never been to

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