Timing the Pneumatic Gate?

TripleFive
Watching the broadcasts this year, it seems like a burst of air can be heard a split-second before the gate falls.

Do you think these guys have it dialed to where they are launching at the sound of the air, instead of watching the gate drop?




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IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 2/10/2017 12:35pm
2/10/2017 12:35pm
Is the air audible in the stadium or is it mic'd for TV?
early
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early 2/10/2017 12:35pm
2/10/2017 12:35pm
I've noticed that on tv but i think the timing discrepency may be due to the latency of the sources of audio and video and how it is combined to make what you see.
Riesenberg448 2/10/2017 1:06pm
2/10/2017 1:06pm
This used to be possible in Arenacross not that long ago if you lined up on the outside gate (the dropper was on the outside), but that's less bikes in a smaller arena with less crowd noise. I believe they've changed the system up since then to prevent it as well.
NMRed
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NMRed 2/10/2017 3:26pm
2/10/2017 3:26pm
You can't really hear it at the track.

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SEE ARE125 2/10/2017 3:33pm
2/10/2017 3:33pm
TV usually runs on a 5 second delay, so by the time we hear the air burst at home, the gate has already dropped.





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Mia
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Mia 2/10/2017 3:40pm
2/10/2017 3:40pm
Ax guys have been doing it for years. Line up near the compressor / air valve. When you hear the pisssh. Hammer it. It's usually near outside gate in ax. May be in the box for sx.
BGT21
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BGT21 2/10/2017 4:27pm
2/10/2017 4:27pm
I was thinking the same thing but after watching a few of the starts closer it seems to be a slight audio/visual delay. Strange that it was a known thing in AX though... surely it couldn't have been much of an advantage or they'd have to fix it real quick?

Completely off topic, and i'm no camera/media person but i've always found it interesting how the sound follows the bikes around the track as they go from camera angle to camera angle, even the overhead shots. Its super noticeable if they timing is slightly out on a youtube video or something because you hear bikes accelerating at weird times etc. Must just be a timing and placement thing of the cameras and microphones but i think its cool!
F150Motocrosser 2/10/2017 4:30pm
2/10/2017 4:30pm
Heard Matthes saying they went to the pneumatic gates after the multiple issues they had at Monster Cup a couple years ago. Apparently Dave Prater (Sr. Director of Operations for Supercross) was pretty pissed about what happened, thus to switch from the mechanical gates to the more fail safe pneumatic gates. Yes I've heard about the advantage in AX, but I highly doubt Prater and crew would allow that to happen to in SX. I'm not TV production specialist, but I'm sure they have lots of audio pickups strategically placed all over the place to capture the sound. All a function of how close one of them is to the pressure release valve for the gates. My 2cents anyways
hillbilly
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hillbilly 2/10/2017 4:34pm
2/10/2017 4:34pm
Air sound starts after the gate is triggered,just saying.

Ever 3rd gate you can see the pipe that rotates for gate drop,that is where I'd line up.

With earplugs and 110 db engines I doubt you'd hear that air more than 2 gates out.
hillbilly
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hillbilly 2/10/2017 7:03pm
2/10/2017 7:03pm
Air cylinder,it raises the gate. The latch is probably same

Hydraulic oil cylinder wouldn't work because it would need to be a closed system.

With air you raise the gate then blow out a huge port to not slow the gate drop.

Keeps the gate keeper from needing a 7 foot pipe to raise it then forget to remove the pipe and foul the gate drop as it hits someone's head.
busta_FATmoto 2/10/2017 8:02pm
2/10/2017 8:02pm
I think they just switched to the pneumatic gate this year. I got hit in the head by that pole once. Real proud moment
kzizok
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kzizok 2/10/2017 8:44pm
2/10/2017 8:44pm
Been around them a bunch when my son was in amateurs and I dont remember anyone using/describing the sound as a technique to gain an advantage.
rrjr
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rrjr 2/10/2017 11:10pm
2/10/2017 11:10pm
hillbilly wrote:
Air cylinder,it raises the gate. The latch is probably same Hydraulic oil cylinder wouldn't work because it would need to be a closed system. With air...
Air cylinder,it raises the gate. The latch is probably same

Hydraulic oil cylinder wouldn't work because it would need to be a closed system.

With air you raise the gate then blow out a huge port to not slow the gate drop.

Keeps the gate keeper from needing a 7 foot pipe to raise it then forget to remove the pipe and foul the gate drop as it hits someone's head.
Pneumatic gates have been used for years in BMX racing. In the BMX version the air cylinder(ram) is used to raise the gate and when released it pushes the gate down faster than gravity alone can. There are only 8 gates in BMX and the gate falls forward instead of backwards like MX/SX gates.
Andy_Greenney 2/11/2017 10:21am
2/11/2017 10:21am
Is there any difference between listening for the air release/watching the pin pull?
kzizok
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kzizok 2/11/2017 12:59pm
2/11/2017 12:59pm Edited Date/Time 2/11/2017 1:23pm
Andy_Greenney wrote:
Is there any difference between listening for the air release/watching the pin pull?
Sound travels slower but goes through fewer recognition steps than sight, but still would probably not produce a difference enough to provide an advantage, all things being equal.
GuyB
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GuyB 2/13/2017 10:58am
2/13/2017 10:58am
IWreckALot wrote:
Is the air audible in the stadium or is it mic'd for TV?
It was pretty audible this week at AT&T Stadium.

Want a peek behind the curtain at the mechanism?



neverwasfastenuf 2/13/2017 11:26am
2/13/2017 11:26am
IWreckALot wrote:
Is the air audible in the stadium or is it mic'd for TV?
GuyB wrote:
It was pretty audible this week at AT&T Stadium. Want a peek behind the curtain at the mechanism? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/02/13/176124/s1200_021117arlingtonracing1202.jpg[/img]
It was pretty audible this week at AT&T Stadium.

Want a peek behind the curtain at the mechanism?



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neverwasfastenuf 2/13/2017 11:27am
2/13/2017 11:27am
hillbilly wrote:
Air sound starts after the gate is triggered,just saying. Ever 3rd gate you can see the pipe that rotates for gate drop,that is where I'd line...
Air sound starts after the gate is triggered,just saying.

Ever 3rd gate you can see the pipe that rotates for gate drop,that is where I'd line up.

With earplugs and 110 db engines I doubt you'd hear that air more than 2 gates out.
Billy don't miss much, always observing and thinking!

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IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 2/13/2017 1:20pm
2/13/2017 1:20pm
I was in the stadium but didn't pay attention to the noise. Not sure I could gauge the visual of the gate dropping combined with the audio of the gate dropping. It seems any advantage is shared among all of the riders, eliminating any unfair advantage.
TXDirt
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TXDirt 2/13/2017 1:41pm
2/13/2017 1:41pm
You don't want to time the air. That can be tricky because air is invisible. Better to try and get the holeshot.
TripleFive 2/13/2017 2:01pm
2/13/2017 2:01pm
So the consensus seems to be that hearing the sound of air immediately before the gate drop is a result of the latency of the sources of audio and video?
NV825
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NV825 2/13/2017 2:14pm
2/13/2017 2:14pm Edited Date/Time 2/13/2017 2:15pm
It definitely seems like someone could time the gate with the sound, but I'm not sure the riders can perfectly hear it over the revving of all the bikes and Lurch screaming his ass off for the mains.

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