WP 4cs Re-valve / re-worked suspension services... What tuner to go to.

i3oykin
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i3oykin
Just got a 2015 Husky Tc 125. I only have a little over an hour on the bike. Set the sag to 100mm as suggested by the owners manual...

Front forks I played with throughout the day but could not get the feel I wanted. Initially they were very stiff, then they transitioned to a harsh mid-stroke which ended up blowing through and bottoming when over jumping... Felt like hydro lock or metal to metal. Kind of scary it hurt my wrists.

I came off a Yz125 with the SSS stuff I had RG3 do my valving, and it was perfect, for me.

I know the top guys doing the 4cs seem to be Kreft, Factory Connection, Stillwell and MX-tech. I also see that Zip Ty racing is doing some cool stuff with them

I like the idea of Zip Ty because he is within 1.5hrs of me.

Question being, who to go to. I ride only motocorss tracks. Cahuilla Creek, Pala, Milestone, Perris, 212 land etc. All the SoCal tracks. I see that Kreft seems to be the go-to for off road setups and cannot find any testimonials for moto only setups. I like my feel to be initially plush to soak up all the small stuff like braking bumps, then get progressively stiffer without bottoming. Never had that problem on my Yami. But I am told once these 4cs forks are setup correctly they are amazing.

Thanks in advance!
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bdp93
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bdp93 8/21/2016 3:25pm
8/21/2016 3:25pm
Well I know MXA did a ktm 250sx build and they went to ESR suspension and said he worked wonders on the 4cs fork and made it plush. They say ESR found the cure to the 4cs failure
i3oykin
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i3oykin 8/21/2016 3:26pm
8/21/2016 3:26pm
bdp93 wrote:
Well I know MXA did a ktm 250sx build and they went to ESR suspension and said he worked wonders on the 4cs fork and made...
Well I know MXA did a ktm 250sx build and they went to ESR suspension and said he worked wonders on the 4cs fork and made it plush. They say ESR found the cure to the 4cs failure
Awesome, will be looking into them as well. So far everyone is modifying the fork at an extreme level or converting it all together, I would prefer to avoid that.
Skidaddle
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Skidaddle 8/21/2016 3:33pm
8/21/2016 3:33pm Edited Date/Time 8/21/2016 3:35pm
ESR as in Eddie Sanders?
What about MX-Tech and Stillwell or are they suited more to Enduro/GNCC type?
rocketsocks26 8/21/2016 3:37pm
8/21/2016 3:37pm
Powerband is the wp man.

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i3oykin
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i3oykin 8/21/2016 3:39pm
8/21/2016 3:39pm
Skidaddle wrote:
ESR as in Eddie Sanders?
What about MX-Tech and Stillwell or are they suited more to Enduro/GNCC type?
Mx-Tech is a complete conversion of the fork as is Kreft I believe. It is so hard to find reviews for Mx-Tech... Hence why I am asking for testimonials. Most of the Husky guys are Enduro/off-road guys.
I would prefer to stay under $500.00 for the forks. Shock feels use able as is, once I get the forks sorted then I will have the shock done. I am really looking at FC and Zip Ty as they are closest to me, so if I had to have re valves done I would not have to ship. But I really am open to whomever as long as I can get what I want for outdoor moto.

I think ESR is Earl Shuler?
i3oykin
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i3oykin 8/21/2016 3:40pm
8/21/2016 3:40pm
rocketsocks26 wrote:
Powerband is the wp man.
Care to elaborate a little, please?!
CarlinoJoeVideo
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CarlinoJoeVideo 8/21/2016 4:10pm
8/21/2016 4:10pm
If you ride Mikestone, I'd bring them to Factory Connection. I've done 4 settings with them on my 4cs and got them to a great spot. They might not be perfect right away, but they will change the valving for free until they hit the mark.

The more feedback and honest description of your riding a ability the better they will feel.
i3oykin
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i3oykin 8/21/2016 4:17pm
8/21/2016 4:17pm Edited Date/Time 8/21/2016 4:18pm
CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:
If you ride Mikestone, I'd bring them to Factory Connection. I've done 4 settings with them on my 4cs and got them to a great spot...
If you ride Mikestone, I'd bring them to Factory Connection. I've done 4 settings with them on my 4cs and got them to a great spot. They might not be perfect right away, but they will change the valving for free until they hit the mark.

The more feedback and honest description of your riding a ability the better they will feel.
Thanks for the input, much apprediated! I ride the Stone occasionally. Mostly 212, Cahuilla, Pala, Barona (before it closed), Perris and LACR. Pretty broad spectrum of tracks, with much different types of terrain and roughness. If a fork feels good to me at the end of the day at Cahuilla then it was set up right!

Yes, deff need to be honest with ability. Cannot setup a fork for a C rider if they claim to be an A rider and then complain it is too stiff, etc.
JWACK
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JWACK 8/21/2016 4:23pm
8/21/2016 4:23pm
rocketsocks26 wrote:
Powerband is the wp man.
i3oykin wrote:
Care to elaborate a little, please?!
Powerband kinda put me off a little. I spoke with the owner on the phone and email a few times. After hearing good things I said lets do this I want the cone valves. Send me an emailed quote and I'll pay you cash right now.. Never emailed or called back. Didn't want to make money I guess. I won't be doing business with them. I have had great luck with mb1 suspension and factory connection on the other hand.
i3oykin
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i3oykin 8/21/2016 4:37pm
8/21/2016 4:37pm
JWACK wrote:
Powerband kinda put me off a little. I spoke with the owner on the phone and email a few times. After hearing good things I said...
Powerband kinda put me off a little. I spoke with the owner on the phone and email a few times. After hearing good things I said lets do this I want the cone valves. Send me an emailed quote and I'll pay you cash right now.. Never emailed or called back. Didn't want to make money I guess. I won't be doing business with them. I have had great luck with mb1 suspension and factory connection on the other hand.
Do you ride mainly outdoor motocross? If so, did you prefer the Mb1 setup or the Factory Connection? I would love to hear someone chime in on a Zip Ty 4cs setup for moto. I think I will call them tomorrow and ask what their success rate is for moto only as well as what they can offer. Might as well change that plastic preload ring on the shock while in there.
Meister
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Meister 8/21/2016 4:52pm
8/21/2016 4:52pm
I've had 4cs twice now.. revalve made it a little better but if I ever have another 4cs it will get kyb internals, or kit suspension. Not dealing with the trickiness of 4cs again.
i3oykin
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i3oykin 8/21/2016 5:02pm
8/21/2016 5:02pm
Meister wrote:
I've had 4cs twice now.. revalve made it a little better but if I ever have another 4cs it will get kyb internals, or kit suspension...
I've had 4cs twice now.. revalve made it a little better but if I ever have another 4cs it will get kyb internals, or kit suspension. Not dealing with the trickiness of 4cs again.
Interesting. Did you only have re-valves with them? Or did you ever try something like Kreft or Mx-Tech where they convert them to have rebound, low mid and high speed compression adjusters? Different base valves and such? Or like Zip Ty that puts rebound on both and compression adjusters on both?
Cygnus
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Cygnus 8/21/2016 5:09pm
8/21/2016 5:09pm
Meister wrote:
I've had 4cs twice now.. revalve made it a little better but if I ever have another 4cs it will get kyb internals, or kit suspension...
I've had 4cs twice now.. revalve made it a little better but if I ever have another 4cs it will get kyb internals, or kit suspension. Not dealing with the trickiness of 4cs again.
i3oykin wrote:
Interesting. Did you only have re-valves with them? Or did you ever try something like Kreft or Mx-Tech where they convert them to have rebound, low...
Interesting. Did you only have re-valves with them? Or did you ever try something like Kreft or Mx-Tech where they convert them to have rebound, low mid and high speed compression adjusters? Different base valves and such? Or like Zip Ty that puts rebound on both and compression adjusters on both?
From all Ive read and seen this is the only way you are going to get them close to your old YZ. Just do it.
i3oykin
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i3oykin 8/21/2016 5:14pm
8/21/2016 5:14pm
Cygnus wrote:
From all Ive read and seen this is the only way you are going to get them close to your old YZ. Just do it.
I am going to call Zip Ty racing tomorrow and talk out my options, if I don't feel comfortable with them I am going to call FC and Mx-Tech, etc. Thanks!
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JWACK 8/21/2016 6:33pm
8/21/2016 6:33pm
JWACK wrote:
Powerband kinda put me off a little. I spoke with the owner on the phone and email a few times. After hearing good things I said...
Powerband kinda put me off a little. I spoke with the owner on the phone and email a few times. After hearing good things I said lets do this I want the cone valves. Send me an emailed quote and I'll pay you cash right now.. Never emailed or called back. Didn't want to make money I guess. I won't be doing business with them. I have had great luck with mb1 suspension and factory connection on the other hand.
i3oykin wrote:
Do you ride mainly outdoor motocross? If so, did you prefer the Mb1 setup or the Factory Connection? I would love to hear someone chime in...
Do you ride mainly outdoor motocross? If so, did you prefer the Mb1 setup or the Factory Connection? I would love to hear someone chime in on a Zip Ty 4cs setup for moto. I think I will call them tomorrow and ask what their success rate is for moto only as well as what they can offer. Might as well change that plastic preload ring on the shock while in there.
Yes 100% Moto. I prefer mb1, his fork set up for me has been magic. Plush and don't bottom. A little better than my b kit stuff from factory connection. The shocks have always been good as well with the Honda and Yamaha ending up great. My rm needed valving tweaked a little . I have had 7 or 8 sets done with them. Mike the owner of mb1 was the suspension tuner for factory Honda for a while. He knows is stuff. Most of the time you call and end up getting his wife on the phone. I always ask to talk to mike.
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CarlinoJoeVideo 8/21/2016 7:38pm
8/21/2016 7:38pm
CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:
If you ride Mikestone, I'd bring them to Factory Connection. I've done 4 settings with them on my 4cs and got them to a great spot...
If you ride Mikestone, I'd bring them to Factory Connection. I've done 4 settings with them on my 4cs and got them to a great spot. They might not be perfect right away, but they will change the valving for free until they hit the mark.

The more feedback and honest description of your riding a ability the better they will feel.
i3oykin wrote:
Thanks for the input, much apprediated! I ride the Stone occasionally. Mostly 212, Cahuilla, Pala, Barona (before it closed), Perris and LACR. Pretty broad spectrum of...
Thanks for the input, much apprediated! I ride the Stone occasionally. Mostly 212, Cahuilla, Pala, Barona (before it closed), Perris and LACR. Pretty broad spectrum of tracks, with much different types of terrain and roughness. If a fork feels good to me at the end of the day at Cahuilla then it was set up right!

Yes, deff need to be honest with ability. Cannot setup a fork for a C rider if they claim to be an A rider and then complain it is too stiff, etc.
I mentioned Milestone just because it's close to the FC shop.

They have come up with some great parts to improve this fork like a new valve and bottoming cones.
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Bennett59 8/21/2016 7:47pm
8/21/2016 7:47pm Edited Date/Time 8/21/2016 7:48pm
I've had my 4cs stuff revalved a couple times, one by a big company mentioned and the other was more local guy. Big company helped but it was still harsh tweaked it a few times could never get happy with it. Local guy did conversion to open chamber setup was lot better. In the end I ended up finding a pair of almost new ohlins front and rear for my bike. They are very plush and the harsh clanking of the 4cs are gone. Bike tracks amazing and very impressed with them, I was too going to go power band for cone valve but like mentioned by other user, I talk to him set it all up never heard back from him, then 3 weeks later I talk to him he said he already sold all his sets, then month and half later out of blue he told me he can build my forks but Id had already picked up ohlins. After market suspension for a 15 might be easy to come by if you choose to go that route, as 16 they changed the rear shocks so seen few ppl selling WP kit and Ohlins kits. Sag I run 105 real happy with it some recommend 108
i3oykin
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i3oykin 8/21/2016 8:05pm
8/21/2016 8:05pm
Darn, this seems to be the common suggestion. Going to the Ohlins stuff, cone valve or internally converting to the SSS stuff, all of which is upwards of $1500... Maybe I will just live with it for now but it is hard to be confident with this fork in stock form, and I only have 1 hour on them hahaha.

What is the Ohlins stuff as in part numbers for the 15'??

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i3oykin
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i3oykin 8/21/2016 8:14pm
8/21/2016 8:14pm
I do not really think I would need the Ohlins stuff honestly. I race C class and struggle to make top 8-5 so I am not really fast at all...
Bennett59
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Bennett59 8/21/2016 8:18pm
8/21/2016 8:18pm
Kt 1592 is rear Shock
FGHA 1693 or 1593 front cartridge option
FGKT 1696 or 1596 for complete fork
Osaka627
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Osaka627 8/21/2016 8:19pm
8/21/2016 8:19pm
i3oykin wrote:
I do not really think I would need the Ohlins stuff honestly. I race C class and struggle to make top 8-5 so I am not...
I do not really think I would need the Ohlins stuff honestly. I race C class and struggle to make top 8-5 so I am not really fast at all...
You need one of your buddies to send it to pro circuit for free, but in reality just put some pc stickers on there to free without your knowledge. Be surprised how much better that placebo effect will make them feel.
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CarlinoJoeVideo 8/21/2016 8:56pm
8/21/2016 8:56pm
i3oykin wrote:
I do not really think I would need the Ohlins stuff honestly. I race C class and struggle to make top 8-5 so I am not...
I do not really think I would need the Ohlins stuff honestly. I race C class and struggle to make top 8-5 so I am not really fast at all...
Not trying to sell you on something you don't want, but properly set up suspension is way safer.

Just keep your eye out for some used kits. If you get a good deal is definitely recommend getting some!
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i3oykin 8/21/2016 9:01pm
8/21/2016 9:01pm
i3oykin wrote:
I do not really think I would need the Ohlins stuff honestly. I race C class and struggle to make top 8-5 so I am not...
I do not really think I would need the Ohlins stuff honestly. I race C class and struggle to make top 8-5 so I am not really fast at all...
CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:
Not trying to sell you on something you don't want, but properly set up suspension is way safer. Just keep your eye out for some used...
Not trying to sell you on something you don't want, but properly set up suspension is way safer.

Just keep your eye out for some used kits. If you get a good deal is definitely recommend getting some!
I agree there but I feel that the 4cs slightly re-configured will work for a mid-pack C rider, at least until I get up to B class. Just a thought. I saw one on ebay, complete for 3k... But I would spend 1300 on a SSS conversion (because I know I can make it work great for me and my ability) before I spend 3k plus on aftermarket stuff.
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Bennett59 8/21/2016 9:17pm
8/21/2016 9:17pm
It's all preference, I just couldn't get a feel for the wp stuff I feel the rear shocks good. Each person is different but after a few re valves the price for good setup was not to bad. Dean Burke you could get a set of ohlins inserts (same hardware that's in there rfx fork) and the rear Shock with Springs for 2500. If you choose that route
i3oykin
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i3oykin 8/21/2016 9:38pm
8/21/2016 9:38pm
Bennett59 wrote:
It's all preference, I just couldn't get a feel for the wp stuff I feel the rear shocks good. Each person is different but after a...
It's all preference, I just couldn't get a feel for the wp stuff I feel the rear shocks good. Each person is different but after a few re valves the price for good setup was not to bad. Dean Burke you could get a set of ohlins inserts (same hardware that's in there rfx fork) and the rear Shock with Springs for 2500. If you choose that route
What is the difference of the complete Ohlins fork vs. Just the inserts? Coatings on the fork tubes?
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Bennett59 8/21/2016 9:44pm
8/21/2016 9:44pm
Bennett59 wrote:
It's all preference, I just couldn't get a feel for the wp stuff I feel the rear shocks good. Each person is different but after a...
It's all preference, I just couldn't get a feel for the wp stuff I feel the rear shocks good. Each person is different but after a few re valves the price for good setup was not to bad. Dean Burke you could get a set of ohlins inserts (same hardware that's in there rfx fork) and the rear Shock with Springs for 2500. If you choose that route
i3oykin wrote:
What is the difference of the complete Ohlins fork vs. Just the inserts? Coatings on the fork tubes?
Just coating same exact internals the inserts just drop into your fork tubes.
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PTshox 8/22/2016 12:39am
8/22/2016 12:39am
RaceTech has some good parts for that fork too... Serious. I rode some and they were good. Probably all the tuners have a better solution today with more time on them too.
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i3oykin 8/22/2016 12:50am
8/22/2016 12:50am
PTshox wrote:
RaceTech has some good parts for that fork too... Serious. I rode some and they were good. Probably all the tuners have a better solution today...
RaceTech has some good parts for that fork too... Serious. I rode some and they were good. Probably all the tuners have a better solution today with more time on them too.
Been reading that too. It seems that most the posts are from mid to late 2015 with no real data or testimonies since. I am currently looking at Mx-Tech, around $800 for just the forks. Or an SSS conversion around $950 with parts and a re-valve. Or I see some guy named Terry Hay that does a lot with the 4cs it seems like with the Race Tech stuff. As well as Zip Ty racing which pioneered the comp/base valve setup with rebound up top. Still trying to gather info in order to make the best decision that is cost effective and gets me what I want.

I am very used to the SSS stuff coming off a Yamaha, but I also kind of want to play around with this setup if there truly are good options.
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Thelen20 8/22/2016 2:41am
8/22/2016 2:41am Edited Date/Time 8/22/2016 2:44am
My 4cs stuff on a 15' 250sx had been revalved twice by Stillwell and still had the same symptoms you are describing. I sprung for power band cone valves, sometimes i still can't believe I spent that much on a set of forks, but they are really good. Bottoming resistance is literally insane! Very forgiving! Miles ahead of the 4cs stuff, as they very well should be.

I called Billy at powerband and had a good chat then finalized the deal through email. Sent him a cashier's check and took my place in line. 3 weeks later I had a set of forks at my door.

If I could do it again, considering the way I keep my bikes for a long time, the kyb conversion probably should have been my first choice, but then again I bet they would not have the bottoming resistance of these cone valve forks and that is the thing I love most about my current setup . . .


darren7878 8/22/2016 4:49am
8/22/2016 4:49am
Ive used Ohlins inserts in a few bikes now. A great fix at a reasonable price and you sell on afterwards with no problem!!

4CS such junk. I purchased used Ohlins forks 100% better...................I'm on a 2015 FC350.

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