Like him or hate him, Al Franken makes a good point....

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Edited Date/Time 1/21/2012 9:39am
http://washingtonindependent.com/60611/al-franken-reads-the-4th-amendme…

By Daphne Eviatar 9/23/09 12:16 PM
Just in case he wasn’t familiar with it, Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) decided to read the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution to David Kris, assistant attorney general of the Justice Department’s National Security Division, who was testifying to the Senate Judiciary Committee today to urge reauthorization of expiring provisions of the USA Patriot Act.

Franken, who opened by acknowledging that unlike most of his colleagues in the Senate, he’s not a lawyer, but according to his research “most Americans aren’t lawyers” either, said he’d also done research on the Patriot Act and in particular, the “roving wiretap” provision that allows the FBI to get a warrant to wiretap a an unnamed target and his or her various and changing cell phones, computers and other communication devices.

Noting that he received a copy of the Constitution when he was sworn in as a senator, he proceeded to read it to Kris, emphasizing this part: “no Warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

“That’s pretty explicit language,” noted Franken, asking Kris how the “roving wiretap” provision of the Patriot Act can meet that requirement if it doesn’t require the government to name its target.

Kris looked flustered and mumbled that “this is surreal,” apparently referring to having to respond to Franken’s question. “I would defer to the other branch of government,” he said, referring to the courts, prompting Franken to interject: “I know what that is.”

Kris explained that the courts have held that the law’s requirements that the person be described, though not named, is sufficient to meet the demands of the Constitution. That did not appear to completely satisfy Franken’s concerns.

Today’s Judiciary Committee hearing has so far proceeded much the way yesterday’s House Judiciary Committee subcommittee hearing did, with Democrats (except the Justice Department witness) expressing skepticism that the current law adequately protects Americans’ civil liberties and Republicans emphasizing the need to have all possible tools for law enforcement available because another major terrorist attack could occur at any time.
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`ol Ger
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9/24/2009 7:40pm
I don't like the patriot act.


`ol Ger
motogeezer
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9/24/2009 7:41pm
Al Franken is just like Cox, but Cox isn't fat any more.

At least, last time I saw him.
Nerd
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9/24/2009 10:23pm
motogeezer wrote:
Al Franken is just like Cox, but Cox isn't fat any more.

At least, last time I saw him.
Well, Franken is funny. And he's smart.

Thanks!

Wink
Goride333
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9/24/2009 11:25pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:21am
I have no problem with the Patriot Act.

The Shop

flarider
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9/25/2009 5:03am
I have a problem with many parts, much, actually, of the Patriot Act.
However, the "Roving Wiretaps" provision is one part I do not have an issue with.
Cell phones are now a dime a dozen with disposable ones available at every Quickee Mart.
This means bad guy can be using one phone and talk to the bad guys, drive to the store, drop that phone in trash and buy a new phone and dial the bad guys back....literally change phones in lieu of charging, and each new phone is a new number and SIM.
With today's technology, a wiretap should be allowed to follow the person and not the line/number. If you have a wiretap warrant on a bad guy, whatever phone he is on becomes subject to that warrant.
I have no problem with that.

My only issue with this provision is the lack of having to directly, by name, identify the suspect to obtain the warrant.
CR250Rider
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9/25/2009 5:41am
Obama liked the patriot act enough to extend it !

during the campaign, didn't he say he was against it ?


flarider
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9/25/2009 5:55am
CR250Rider wrote:
Obama liked the patriot act enough to extend it !

during the campaign, didn't he say he was against it ?


Parts, actually
He was never against it as a whole, but believed parts were essential for security and were constitutionally legal
huck
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9/25/2009 6:32am
motogeezer wrote:
Al Franken is just like Cox, but Cox isn't fat any more.

At least, last time I saw him.
Franken has all of google memorized too?
txmxer
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9/25/2009 7:08am
pretty sticky issue in light of the two bombers they apprehended yesterday.
SEEMEFIRST
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9/25/2009 7:14am
flarider wrote:
I have a problem with many parts, much, actually, of the Patriot Act. However, the "Roving Wiretaps" provision is one part I do not have an...
I have a problem with many parts, much, actually, of the Patriot Act.
However, the "Roving Wiretaps" provision is one part I do not have an issue with.
Cell phones are now a dime a dozen with disposable ones available at every Quickee Mart.
This means bad guy can be using one phone and talk to the bad guys, drive to the store, drop that phone in trash and buy a new phone and dial the bad guys back....literally change phones in lieu of charging, and each new phone is a new number and SIM.
With today's technology, a wiretap should be allowed to follow the person and not the line/number. If you have a wiretap warrant on a bad guy, whatever phone he is on becomes subject to that warrant.
I have no problem with that.

My only issue with this provision is the lack of having to directly, by name, identify the suspect to obtain the warrant.
Dave Wrote:"My only issue with this provision is the lack of having to directly, by name, identify the suspect to obtain the warrant."

I find this part weird too, but I wonder if they added that verbiage because we may not really know the true identity of the potential foreign bad guys.
bana0401
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9/25/2009 7:20am Edited Date/Time 9/25/2009 9:10am
I think David Kris makes a good point. This is an issue for the courts. The courts are the ones who interpret the constitution not Al Franken. Al Franken is an ignorant buffoon.
txmxer
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9/25/2009 7:43am
bana0401 wrote:
I think David Kris makes a good point. This is an issue for the courts. The courts are the ones who interpret the constitution not Al...
I think David Kris makes a good point. This is an issue for the courts. The courts are the ones who interpret the constitution not Al Franken. Al Franken is an ignorant buffoon.
why is he ignorant? Seems like a legit point. The issue was re-authorizing the Patriot Act. While law makers may not be the final decision on constitutionality, is it wrong for them to make an attempt to stay within the bounds of the Constitution?

Do we need to pass every thought we have into law and jam the courts with really stupid issues just to see if they will get shot down?
9/25/2009 7:47am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:21am
txmxer wrote:
pretty sticky issue in light of the two bombers they apprehended yesterday.
They were planted here by Bush....

Whistling Whistling Whistling
fcr
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9/25/2009 9:03am Edited Date/Time 9/25/2009 9:03am
bana0401 wrote:
I think David Kris makes a good point. This is an issue for the courts. The courts are the ones who interpret the constitution not Al...
I think David Kris makes a good point. This is an issue for the courts. The courts are the ones who interpret the constitution not Al Franken. Al Franken is an ignorant buffoon.
txmxer wrote:
why is he ignorant? Seems like a legit point. The issue was re-authorizing the Patriot Act. While law makers may not be the final decision on...
why is he ignorant? Seems like a legit point. The issue was re-authorizing the Patriot Act. While law makers may not be the final decision on constitutionality, is it wrong for them to make an attempt to stay within the bounds of the Constitution?

Do we need to pass every thought we have into law and jam the courts with really stupid issues just to see if they will get shot down?
He's ignorant because he disagrees with him, therefore ignorance. And bad guys may come from within, not all are foreign, think Timothy McVey and Kasinzky.
Nerd
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9/25/2009 10:22am
bana0401 wrote:
I think David Kris makes a good point. This is an issue for the courts. The courts are the ones who interpret the constitution not Al...
I think David Kris makes a good point. This is an issue for the courts. The courts are the ones who interpret the constitution not Al Franken. Al Franken is an ignorant buffoon.
txmxer wrote:
why is he ignorant? Seems like a legit point. The issue was re-authorizing the Patriot Act. While law makers may not be the final decision on...
why is he ignorant? Seems like a legit point. The issue was re-authorizing the Patriot Act. While law makers may not be the final decision on constitutionality, is it wrong for them to make an attempt to stay within the bounds of the Constitution?

Do we need to pass every thought we have into law and jam the courts with really stupid issues just to see if they will get shot down?
"It's just a god-damned piece of paper." -- GW Bush on the US Constitution
flarider
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9/25/2009 10:34am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:21am
Nerd wrote:
"It's just a god-damned piece of paper." -- GW Bush on the US Constitution
You know, I have dug around on that one a lot, and there's no credible source of him actually saying it.


It started on one site (liberal anti-Bush site) and was picked up by more and more sites as fact, but reality is that I have found no credible news agency or source showing Bush ever actually said that.


You'll find billions of sites saying he did, but all their sources trace back to that one site



He never said it



http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/print_did_president_bush_call_the…
Nerd
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9/25/2009 10:37am
Nerd wrote:
"It's just a god-damned piece of paper." -- GW Bush on the US Constitution
flarider wrote:
You know, I have dug around on that one a lot, and there's no credible source of him actually saying it. It started on one site...
You know, I have dug around on that one a lot, and there's no credible source of him actually saying it.


It started on one site (liberal anti-Bush site) and was picked up by more and more sites as fact, but reality is that I have found no credible news agency or source showing Bush ever actually said that.


You'll find billions of sites saying he did, but all their sources trace back to that one site



He never said it



http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/print_did_president_bush_call_the…
http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=…

Looks like he did.

It's just like the quote his dad made about how atheists shouldn't even be considered citizens. That was reported by the reporter whom he told it to. Just because there was no actual tape of him saying it doesn't mean he didn't say it.
flarider
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9/25/2009 10:42am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 2:21am
Yeah, but that's Snopes' message board and isn't reliable as a source, you could say something was legit as could Corndog


http://www.factcheck.org/..._constitution_a.html


Factcheck.org says it isn't


and if you read all the stories, they're similar in nature as they're all sourced from the same unreliable site, Capitolhillblue.com

Nerd
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9/25/2009 10:49am
flarider wrote:
Yeah, but that's Snopes' message board and isn't reliable as a source, you could say something was legit as could Corndog http://www.factcheck.org/..._constitution_a.html Factcheck.org says it isn't...
Yeah, but that's Snopes' message board and isn't reliable as a source, you could say something was legit as could Corndog


http://www.factcheck.org/..._constitution_a.html


Factcheck.org says it isn't


and if you read all the stories, they're similar in nature as they're all sourced from the same unreliable site, Capitolhillblue.com

So did GHW Bush say that about atheists?
09450f
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9/25/2009 10:57am
flarider wrote:
Yeah, but that's Snopes' message board and isn't reliable as a source, you could say something was legit as could Corndog http://www.factcheck.org/..._constitution_a.html Factcheck.org says it isn't...
Yeah, but that's Snopes' message board and isn't reliable as a source, you could say something was legit as could Corndog


http://www.factcheck.org/..._constitution_a.html


Factcheck.org says it isn't


and if you read all the stories, they're similar in nature as they're all sourced from the same unreliable site, Capitolhillblue.com

oh no Nerdy..you're like me..heaven forbid
radonc73
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9/25/2009 11:06am
Nerd wrote:
So did GHW Bush say that about atheists?
No they don't retain the writing as well as real paper.
flarider
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9/25/2009 11:08am
flarider wrote:
Yeah, but that's Snopes' message board and isn't reliable as a source, you could say something was legit as could Corndog http://www.factcheck.org/..._constitution_a.html Factcheck.org says it isn't...
Yeah, but that's Snopes' message board and isn't reliable as a source, you could say something was legit as could Corndog


http://www.factcheck.org/..._constitution_a.html


Factcheck.org says it isn't


and if you read all the stories, they're similar in nature as they're all sourced from the same unreliable site, Capitolhillblue.com

Nerd wrote:
So did GHW Bush say that about atheists?
Dunno, never looked into it
But I have done quite a bit of research on this one and all sources trace back to this one unreliable source and was never picked up by any legitimate news agency, not even the liberal Bush hating news organizations.

He never said it and you cannot find one legitimate source showing he did, and while Snopes itself is a fairly reliable source, Snopes' message board is not as it is open to everyone, including the extremists on either side

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