WEAPON MX A FRAUD???

Tiki
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6/7/2008 11:29am
You guys are making excues to why it is ok to piss and cry on a message board. It really isnt. This was personal business between him and Weapon MX.

If this is a proper arena for this discussion it should be no problem for Bobcat to share his info on the board so he can be repaid.

Sounds fair right?
eurohero
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6/7/2008 1:31pm
SteveS wrote:
Here is where you are wrong. All sponsorship, whether it's a 15% off discount, free product, or even paying the sponsored person a salary, is marketing...
Here is where you are wrong. All sponsorship, whether it's a 15% off discount, free product, or even paying the sponsored person a salary, is marketing. Anything which decreases the amount of money received by a company for product, or any expenditure which goes out of a company reduces the taxable income of the company. There is no difference between $10 discounted from the sales price or $10 product given away free in terms of the bottom line. It decreases the gross income of the company by $10 from what it would have been otherwise, without purchasing that $10 worth of marketing from the sponsored person.


When you decrease your gross income or spend money on marketing, you are decreasing the amount of potential profit upon which you must pay taxes.
Marketing is in it's own category and is written off as such. Putting an item on sale is not sponsorship. it's marketing, a sales technique. If you have a product that cost $20 to make and it retails for $49, all the money from $20.01 and up is profit. Reducing an items profit is a "sale" or a discount, but you can not write off what you could have made or what you normally made by selling the item full retail. If you are taking a loss on the item, that can be written off, that end of "sponsorship" is a deduction.
eurohero
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6/7/2008 1:44pm
If anyone would like to get in touch with me personally please email and I will take care of you immediately.

Bill Marshall
WeaponMX Inc.
billm@weaponmx.com
This info from another board (Proride). Seems like things are good on that end, try this e-mail.
SteveS
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6/7/2008 2:13pm
SteveS wrote:
Here is where you are wrong. All sponsorship, whether it's a 15% off discount, free product, or even paying the sponsored person a salary, is marketing...
Here is where you are wrong. All sponsorship, whether it's a 15% off discount, free product, or even paying the sponsored person a salary, is marketing. Anything which decreases the amount of money received by a company for product, or any expenditure which goes out of a company reduces the taxable income of the company. There is no difference between $10 discounted from the sales price or $10 product given away free in terms of the bottom line. It decreases the gross income of the company by $10 from what it would have been otherwise, without purchasing that $10 worth of marketing from the sponsored person.


When you decrease your gross income or spend money on marketing, you are decreasing the amount of potential profit upon which you must pay taxes.
eurohero wrote:
Marketing is in it's own category and is written off as such. Putting an item on sale is not sponsorship. it's marketing, a sales technique. If...
Marketing is in it's own category and is written off as such. Putting an item on sale is not sponsorship. it's marketing, a sales technique. If you have a product that cost $20 to make and it retails for $49, all the money from $20.01 and up is profit. Reducing an items profit is a "sale" or a discount, but you can not write off what you could have made or what you normally made by selling the item full retail. If you are taking a loss on the item, that can be written off, that end of "sponsorship" is a deduction.
Obviously you don't know your accounting.

It doesn't matter what a particular item sells for or what "category" you want to place it in. When it comes down to taxes, it comes down to net profit. If you lose potential income through theft, giving it away, or discounting sales, it still reduces net profit by the same amount.

The only reason any kind of sponsorship is done is marketing. Period. It's not "giving to sport" or any of the nice-speak given to it. It's giving something (discount, product, etc.) in hopes that it will increase sales through product being used by competitors and winners.

The Shop

eurohero
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6/7/2008 2:25pm
Agreed, but profit is profit. If you are making profit on an item, you can't write off against that, if you did not make AS MUCH profit as you could have. These sponsorhouse deals are a discount on product, but I would bet few if any, are taking a loss on the product. Giving a discount is not giving away the product, it's lowering the amount of profit, so by all accounts, it's income and not a loss. You have to claim the income, not write off the difference of what you could have made. On the same item, it's not possible to make profit, yet claim you lost money on it at the same time, agreed? Thats what I'm getting at here, these sponsors are not losing money on the item sold, they are offering a discount and still making a profit. I'm not talking about a balance sheet here, I'm going off of a single item sold. You can't have a profit and a loss on the same item.
Slow ~ Pro
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6/7/2008 2:39pm
My neighbor had garage sale today, and sponsored about 80 people.
crowe176
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6/7/2008 2:43pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2008 2:43pm
Did he have any Engine Ice hats?
Slow ~ Pro
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6/7/2008 2:56pm
crowe176 wrote:
Did he have any Engine Ice hats?
No sorry...I would have bought them up, and auctioned them. Actually, I have never seen an Engine Ice hat in So Cal., or stickers.
uncle salty
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6/7/2008 3:53pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2008 3:54pm
eurohero wrote:
If anyone would like to get in touch with me personally please email and I will take care of you immediately. Bill Marshall WeaponMX Inc. billm@weaponmx.com...
If anyone would like to get in touch with me personally please email and I will take care of you immediately.

Bill Marshall
WeaponMX Inc.
billm@weaponmx.com
This info from another board (Proride). Seems like things are good on that end, try this e-mail.
hey thats the responce i have recieved from bill 3 minutes after i posted a message on another board, i stated i could not get a hold of him and had given up. he responded and e-mailed me. i will buy product from him with my credit card. i have also met him in person at a fundraiser that he and his company weapon mx had put on for a fallen rider and someone i consider a friend. had i known that he was being thrashed over on this board i would have never stated what i did over there ! Ride On
CRF107
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El Cajon, CA, USA
6/7/2008 4:00pm
eurohero wrote:
If anyone would like to get in touch with me personally please email and I will take care of you immediately. Bill Marshall WeaponMX Inc. billm@weaponmx.com...
If anyone would like to get in touch with me personally please email and I will take care of you immediately.

Bill Marshall
WeaponMX Inc.
billm@weaponmx.com
This info from another board (Proride). Seems like things are good on that end, try this e-mail.
hey thats the responce i have recieved from bill 3 minutes after i posted a message on another board, i stated i could not get a...
hey thats the responce i have recieved from bill 3 minutes after i posted a message on another board, i stated i could not get a hold of him and had given up. he responded and e-mailed me. i will buy product from him with my credit card. i have also met him in person at a fundraiser that he and his company weapon mx had put on for a fallen rider and someone i consider a friend. had i known that he was being thrashed over on this board i would have never stated what i did over there ! Ride On
Yeah, try emailing Bill personally. I have been using his products for over a year now and have never had a problem. The tank foam works wonders for your bikes handling, and I have ridden bikes with their pipe and they work great. I wouldn't hesitate to use them again and I recommend their products to everyone I talk to at the track.
WORCSRacer
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6/7/2008 4:51pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:12pm
SPYGUY wrote:
Drop the semantics already. Who cares what you want to call it. What Nate is saying is correct in a lot of cases (not all). Companies...
Drop the semantics already. Who cares what you want to call it. What Nate is saying is correct in a lot of cases (not all).

Companies are using sponsorhouse, mxsponsor, etc, to cut out the middleman (Dealers and Distributors) and generate sales by giving discounts direct to the riders, no matter who they are. The company makes $$$ and the rider gets to say he's sponsored.

Hell, I made an account on mxsponsor and received at least 10 offers from companies wanting to "sponsor" me......all of this and I never even made an actual profile!

Never posted a picture. never posted a single result, never posted what class I rode, never posted where I was from....

And you people are wanting to argue that some companies aren't using this as a simple direct sales revenue technique? Get real.



Seriously. I haven't raced in 3 years, and maybe 7 years before that. The one time I did race, it was in 25+ C class. I...
Seriously. I haven't raced in 3 years, and maybe 7 years before that. The one time I did race, it was in 25+ C class.


I bet I can go online and find at least 10 companies willing to sponsor me with product discounts. Im not a racer, I don't deserve any discounts in exchange for anything. In fact, I have absolutely nothing to offer any manufacturer! Why would they want me to represent them? I suck! Oh wait...they want to offer me a discount on product to get me to buy it.



I feel a sponsorship is when a company makes a deal with an influential/public rider to promote their product in order to make more sales to other common riders. That's my opinion.


When a company makes this deal with any rider, regardless of success,ability or publicity to get THAT RIDER to buy more product, that is just a direct sales scheme. That is direct marketing at it's best and the people getting hooked by it think it's the best thing that ever happened to them.


Whatever...Im not saying I wouldn't take a discount vs paying full retail. Im not above saving some cash when it's offered to me. I use coupons and discount codes all the time.


But I do have enough smarts to realize that my worth to that company is determined by how much cash is in my wallet that Im willing to give them. It has absolutely nothing to do with how fast I am, who I tell about their parts, or what races I win. All that mattered is I bought some product and made some profit for them.


I have to give it up to the marketing guys that thought up using sponsorship as a direct marketing tool. It works great. Every kid at the track wants to be a pro or be like a pro. Everyone can't be that fast or successful, but EVERYONE can be an important sponsored rider



I just made a sponsorhouse account. Lets see what companies think I will be a great promotional asset to the company image. Lets see how many sponsorships a spectator can aquire!
Easy with the truth serum there Nate, in case you haven't figured it out you are pissing on a lot of guys self esteem.


Hey but I've got good news! I just picked up Vons Supermarket as a sponsor today. I must be a Level A because I now get Breyers Ice Cream 50% off, any flavor too!
Adam43
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6/7/2008 7:37pm
Nate is 100% correct in his observations. Its certainly not all bad of course, many people (including myself) are very happy to recieve the "sponsorship" discounts.

The ugly side of it comes when people feel that because they are "sponsored" that they sign some type of exclusivity agreement or buy a quantity of items that would have never picked up under normal circumstances. It's pretty misleading, companies basically taking advantage of the fact that most motocross kid's dream is to be a "sponsored rider" and just by calling the sale a sponsorship offer, the inventory is moved.

Yet another example of how most motocross people are some of the dumbest around!
lrantan
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6/7/2008 8:53pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:12pm
WORCSracer, do you get into the races free since you run their name?


TIKI, where should this guy go to complain? The company has a website, email, phone numbers and doesn't answer any of hem. Do you think he would get a better response by posting on a BBB board or a moto related board?

I guess on the other hand if he was on the BBB board he wouldn't get a bunch dipshits telling him he is not "sponsored".


Why should anybody give a crap what it's called, if someone wants to say their "sponsored" whats the big deal? If it makes you feel bad, just say you have a better sponsorship deal.


Dave, thanks for what you do at the races. I have taken advantage of the Engine Ice at Lake Whitney and it has helped. - in the bikes and the wallet.


To the original poster, going to your CC company is the best bet, and run those stickers proudly.
WORCSRacer
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6/7/2008 9:29pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:12pm
lrantan wrote:
WORCSracer, do you get into the races free since you run their name? TIKI, where should this guy go to complain? The company has a website...
WORCSracer, do you get into the races free since you run their name?


TIKI, where should this guy go to complain? The company has a website, email, phone numbers and doesn't answer any of hem. Do you think he would get a better response by posting on a BBB board or a moto related board?

I guess on the other hand if he was on the BBB board he wouldn't get a bunch dipshits telling him he is not "sponsored".


Why should anybody give a crap what it's called, if someone wants to say their "sponsored" whats the big deal? If it makes you feel bad, just say you have a better sponsorship deal.


Dave, thanks for what you do at the races. I have taken advantage of the Engine Ice at Lake Whitney and it has helped. - in the bikes and the wallet.


To the original poster, going to your CC company is the best bet, and run those stickers proudly.
Hey buddy knock yourself out and call yourself sponsored. You running the "sponsored by me" graphics? No? Maybe you have some Monster Energy graphics or Metal Mulisha...


For the record ol' Bobcat could have solved his problem a couple of different ways and alot more efficiently:


Contacted his CC company. They would gladly yank that money back out of Weapon MX's account. Problem solved.


He could have gone to his local dealer or parts shop in the first place and had someone to buffer the problem. Problem solved.


Ultimately he went the "sponsored rider" route to save some bucks and in this case it seems his deal wasn't all that great or unique. Now he's complaining about it. There has been more than one time, that someone has vented on the board telling their side of the story only to find out the truth wasn't exactly as they described it. It just seems dumb to air it out here. I don't remember Langston coming on any message board complaining about M2R when that deal went south last year and that was a real sponsorship deal.


Rider support is awesome and a very welcome help to a lot of people including myself. I don't get everything for free. It has a very important place but support is not sponsorship. In fact most of these programs, as it has been pointed out by others, are nothing more than a way to drive direct sales.


Sponsorship ( Free or paid) Support (discounts)
Tiki
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6/7/2008 9:40pm
Irantan,
Sorry if I went over your IQ

BBB = Better Business Bureau.
Paid with a credit card - Take it up with the bank
Perhaps contact the city where the business is licensed?
If it goes past 30 days you can take it up with the City District Attorney.

If you read my post you would see what I said about WeaponMX they aren't going anywhere, in fact Bill came on and posted just a couple of threads above yours.

Ultimately it should have just been dealt with outside of trying to slam WeaponMX. The approach could have been, I'm trying to reach... Does anyone know? Or are there any reps for...

Easier to let anger get the best of us and go immediately for the jugular because that's our first impression of our sport. Just a bunch of thieves.
dunn2500
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6/7/2008 10:22pm
.who friggin cares! someone offering a 30-50% discount on somethin you were prolly already gonna buy and you guys still find somethin to argue about!...........i saved thousands last 2 years through sponsorhouse.......no complaints from me and you can call it whatever the f you want......mx is not cheap
Joe 788
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6/7/2008 10:31pm
Typically, I'd say airing this stuff out on a public message board is not appropriate.

But when you're talking about phones being disconnected and emails getting bounced back, after they've already got the money, it's hard to imagine what would have been a better option than what he's done here. Perhaps the title of the topic could have been a little more tactful though.
KawiKX250
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8/26/2009 2:44pm
I had an issue with them too, I just joined this site because I saw this post. I ordered my pipe over a yr. and a half ago. When I called them I got answers and got the same run around everytime of stuff is on back order they will send free stuff. I never recieved anything they ended up changing their number and went to "Oregon" I believe it was. Left messages never got ahold of anyone, emailed I done everything I possibly could. I ordered with my bank card so I couldn't get the money back. I got had for $309 cuz it was a "good deal" as well. Now I can't even get their site to work.
Sondy132001
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8/26/2009 3:04pm
flarider wrote:
I disagree with those of you who think sponsorship is only free. If your local dealership is giving you 20-30-40-50% off of retail, or at dealer...
I disagree with those of you who think sponsorship is only free.

If your local dealership is giving you 20-30-40-50% off of retail, or at dealer cost, you are receiving help from that dealer and that qualifies as sponsorship support.

Not everyone is of the level to get everything for free, and not every company can afford to give everything away for free, but they are grateful for whatever support and help they can get (at least some seem grateful).


A bit arrogant of some of you ex-pro's or wanna-be pro's to marginalize this guy's problem when he seems to have gotten a raw deal, over what YOU THINK is or is not sponsorship.


In this economy, most people are very happy to get any discount, and we're happy to offer it.


Slow Pro, call up Ronnie and ask him if he gives away free product to all of the racers Maxima sponsors, I'm sure he's on speed dial in your cell


I'm also sure he'll laugh at the question
I agree with you I know sponsors give different rates to different people, Team Green does/did the same thing, different sponsorship packages to different level riders...to me factory means free not sponsored, that means a special rate ~!

S
brent26wood
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8/26/2009 3:45pm
So I guess all I have to do is offer a discount in order to procure more sales and that consitutes sponsorship. By your definition of...
So I guess all I have to do is offer a discount in order to procure more sales and that consitutes sponsorship. By your definition of a sponsorship, I guess Im sponsored by bockbuster video. They offer a product I want and offer me discounts. We have a deal, they send me 25% off coupons, I rent their stuff.



The direct intention of a sponsorship deal would be advertising, branding, and promotion. It is an advertising expense.



Sponsoring riders with intent for it to become a profit center is just marketing and sales.





What is the defining line between a Sponsorship and Sending out a 10% off couplon via email or offering a 10% off deal from a magazine ad?

When Motosport outlet sends me a catalog (or 7) with a coupon for a discount am I sponsored? They offer me a discount to entice sales.

All the companies I sent letters to as a C rider did the same thing. Send me back an order form with a 10% discount with the aggreement that I won't buy any of the competators products.
Are you really this much of a douche?
500guy
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8/26/2009 3:51pm
KawiKX250 wrote:
I had an issue with them too, I just joined this site because I saw this post. I ordered my pipe over a yr. and a...
I had an issue with them too, I just joined this site because I saw this post. I ordered my pipe over a yr. and a half ago. When I called them I got answers and got the same run around everytime of stuff is on back order they will send free stuff. I never recieved anything they ended up changing their number and went to "Oregon" I believe it was. Left messages never got ahold of anyone, emailed I done everything I possibly could. I ordered with my bank card so I couldn't get the money back. I got had for $309 cuz it was a "good deal" as well. Now I can't even get their site to work.
How could you find this post at over 1 year old ?

STFU if this is the only reason you joined.
Matt Wozney
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8/26/2009 4:37pm Edited Date/Time 8/26/2009 4:38pm
Damn.....talk about getting the duster out on this one.
Hell, more like a ShopVac since its over a year old.
Loose
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8/26/2009 4:56pm
Sponsorship is about the agreement with the end user and not what is provided.

Example;
My company sponsors Surfing QLD with a 50% discount on their accomodation costs for staff and officials. In return we are listed on their entry forms, newsletters and our logo is on the event shirts. This saves them approx $9000 per year.
We also offer the same discount to selected pro riders (mainly privateers) when they are in town for the last round of the Australian MX championship. I expect nothing in return for this.

Same deal, different agreement.
crowe176
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8/26/2009 5:10pm
Anyone that uses "cuz" as a word deserves everything they have coming.

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