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also does anyone have any experience with liability insurance, im looking for places that can give me a quote on liability insurance year round for practice and race days. also are there any track owners on here who would kindly give me a rough idea of what they pay for liability insurance. thanks again ell[/quote:16dckvxn]
its in northern MN
Not sure how Oklahoma is fixed for tracks. There is a lot of good dirt up there if you go to the right areas. Drove up 35 through OKC Friday and saw some areas I wanted to start riding in off the side of the freeway.
I know there were only 2 tracks real close to Tulsa in 2000-2001. There are some amazing tracks in OK if you are willing to drive a few hours.
also does anyone have any experience with liability insurance, im looking for places that can give me a quote on liability insurance year round for practice and race days. also are there any track owners on here who would kindly give me a rough idea of what they pay for liability insurance. thanks again ell[/quote:20gx7wxx]
its in northern MN[/quote:20gx7wxx]
Thats where i live and there is no place in MN and i would venture to guess in the USA that does not have some sort of authority even in the country. Usually its a township and they can and have shut down practice tracks in MN. and i imagine all over the USA. No place is immune to regulations in this country, even Alaska.. If your buddy gets away with it then the one that complained simply did not know who to talk to. Good for him but i hope he uses a quiet muffler and rides at decent hrs. so the rest of us can keep our tracks up here!
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Check your pm's. You either received one or two or NONE from me. The program was acting strangely
JJ[/quote:dyamu5m2]
It looks like about 40 a. that the track is actually on and also i noticed something in the pic i am interested in... i will pm you.
any advice is welcome and apreciated. thanks ell[/quote:1rjfi8t6]
Texas MX Proforma
Texas, USA
Projections
Projected Income
Monthly Races Monthly Annually
Competition Fees
350 Racers $30.00 Per Class $10,500.00 $105,000
100 Racers-2nd Class $25.00 Per Class $2,500.00 $ 25,000
Gate Fee
350 Racers $10 per person $3,500.00
300 Spectators (age 13+) $10 per person $3,000.00
100 Spectatators(age 5-12) $5.00 per person $500.00
100 Spectatators(age 0-4)) Free $-
Total Monthly Race Income $20,000.00 x10 Months $200,000.00
Annually
Total Yearly Race Income $200,000.00
Weekly Practice Daily Weekly Monthly 10 Months 43 weeks
250 Riders per week (big bike) $15.00 $3,750.00 $16,250.00 10 Months $162,500.00
100 Riders per week (small bike)$10.00 $1,000.00 $4,333.00 10 Months $43,333.33
Total Race/Practice Fees (Income) $20,583.00 10 Months $205,833.33
Wages and Adminstrative Costs Annual
Management Wages $60,000.00
Employee Wages $150,000.00
Land Cost-Mortgage (100,000 loan) $8,400.00
Start Up Costs (10 yr Ammortization) $15,200.00
Utilities $12,000.00
Office & Supplies $4,000.00
Advertising $36,000.00
Insurance $15,000.00
Dues & Subscriptions $1,500.00
Merch. Bnk Chrgs $1,000.00
Misc.Expenses $5,000.00
Heavy Equipment Lease $16,200.00
Mantenance & Repairs $6,000.00
Gas/Deisel-Heavy Equipment $12,000.00
Total Wages and Adminstrative Costs $342,300.00
Start Up Costs
Well Drilling $10,000.00
Water Tank $6,000.00
Road Excavation $5,000.00
Track Building $50,000.00
Fencing $20,000.00
Out Buildings $10,000.00
Civil Engineering $5,000.00
Permits $1,000.00
Heavy Equipment $25,000.00 Lease Down Payment
Property Down Payment $20,000.00
Total Start Up Costs $152,000.00
Total Income Race $200,000.00
Total Income Practice $205,833.00
Less Costs $(342,300.00)
Total Net Income $63,533.00
IRR (internal rate of return) 41%
any advice is welcome and apreciated. thanks ell[/quote:vopeta1e]
Texas MX Proforma
Texas, USA
Projections
Projected Income
Monthly Races Monthly Annually
Competition Fees
350 Racers $30.00 Per Class $10,500.00 $105,000
100 Racers-2nd Class $25.00 Per Class $2,500.00 $ 25,000
Gate Fee
350 Racers $10 per person $3,500.00
300 Spectators (age 13+) $10 per person $3,000.00
100 Spectatators(age 5-12) $5.00 per person $500.00
100 Spectatators(age 0-4)) Free $-
Total Monthly Race Income $20,000.00 x10 Months $200,000.00
Annually
Total Yearly Race Income $200,000.00
Weekly Practice Daily Weekly Monthly 10 Months 43 weeks
250 Riders per week (big bike) $15.00 $3,750.00 $16,250.00 10 Months $162,500.00
100 Riders per week (small bike)$10.00 $1,000.00 $4,333.00 10 Months $43,333.33
Total Race/Practice Fees (Income) $20,583.00 10 Months $205,833.33
Wages and Adminstrative Costs Annual
Management Wages $60,000.00
Employee Wages $150,000.00
Land Cost-Mortgage (100,000 loan) $8,400.00
Start Up Costs (10 yr Ammortization) $15,200.00
Utilities $12,000.00
Office & Supplies $4,000.00
Advertising $36,000.00
Insurance $15,000.00
Dues & Subscriptions $1,500.00
Merch. Bnk Chrgs $1,000.00
Misc.Expenses $5,000.00
Heavy Equipment Lease $16,200.00
Mantenance & Repairs $6,000.00
Gas/Deisel-Heavy Equipment $12,000.00
Total Wages and Adminstrative Costs $342,300.00
Start Up Costs
Well Drilling $10,000.00
Water Tank $6,000.00
Road Excavation $5,000.00
Track Building $50,000.00
Fencing $20,000.00
Out Buildings $10,000.00
Civil Engineering $5,000.00
Permits $1,000.00
Heavy Equipment $25,000.00 Lease Down Payment
Property Down Payment $20,000.00
Total Start Up Costs $152,000.00
Total Income Race $200,000.00
Total Income Practice $205,833.00
Less Costs $(342,300.00)
Total Net Income $63,533.00
IRR (internal rate of return) 41%[/quote:vopeta1e]
That's funny!!
Care to explain?
Care to explain?[/quote:a6886jtc]
Those numbers aren't very realistic.
Not at all, especially the land cost, unless you want to buy land near Lubbock.
Not at all, especially the land cost, unless you want to buy land near Lubbock.[/quote:f6j6w919]
I first looked at it and thought maybe they meant $100,000 per year for the land...
Just to pick a couple more apart...
350 riders for EVERY race is also VERY unrealistic.
I didn't see a water truck/irrigation either.
Start up costs - $15,200 over a 10 year am...you would be paying around 8% if you finance that.
I first looked at it and thought maybe they meant $100,000 per year for the land...
Just to pick a couple more apart...
350 riders for EVERY race is also VERY unrealistic.
I didn't see a water truck/irrigation either.
Start up costs - $15,200 over a 10 year am...you would be paying around 8% if you finance that.[/quote:1utbb9vh]
The average turnout for DFW area races is more like 150.
Care to explain?[/quote:3geehreg]
It is a Pro Forma from another track that I put together a while back. If you know how to use XL I would plug the numbers into a spreadsheet and that way you can manipulate the numbers based on your market area and what volume you expect. Let me know if you need more info.
Your biggest issues will be Water, Sound and Insurance. However, Insurance is a lot easier than most people think. There is a relatively new company under the AIG Insurance group called AARA. If you want additional info contact Bob Clark at Sandia MX Park in New Mexico. Bob is the rep for AARA as well as the owner of Sandia MX. You can reach Bob at bclark@sandiamx.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or call him at 505-220-4993. AARA,in my opinion, provides the best insurance for riders and tracks and every track should have this policy PERIOD! For $30.00 per year you get $10,000 of additional coverage for medical expenses, Helicopter rides etc... if you opt for the $60.00 per year policy you get $100,000 of additional coverage but your track MUST be an AARA track to get these benefits. There are a lot of riders out there without insurance and this could save a lot of people from financial ruin.
Water; I would suggest Agricultural Land vs Pature Land as your water rights will be higher on AG.
Sound; I would suggest at least 100 acres with your track covering a 10 Acre Central Parcel. This will alleviate sound levels at the property lines which is where your sound will be measured.
Before you get too involved I would find a piece of property and speak to The Planning Director at the County offices. The planning Director will be able to let you know if there are any legal objections to your proposal and should be able to provide you with a TO-DO list for preliminary approval. You will need a basic business plan or outline of what your intentions are with the property.
The basic process is not expensive but it is time consuming with a couple of potential high cost items such as Traffic Impact Studies and Sound Studies from a Certified Lab if it is requested.
If you need more info let me know.
Not at all, especially the land cost, unless you want to buy land near Lubbock.[/quote:35x9hdlb]
I first looked at it and thought maybe they meant $100,000 per year for the land...
Just to pick a couple more apart...
350 riders for EVERY race is also VERY unrealistic.
I didn't see a water truck/irrigation either.
Start up costs - $15,200 over a 10 year am...you would be paying around 8% if you finance that.[/quote:35x9hdlb]
You didn;t look very close then as you missed the Heavy Equipment Lease Payments and Down Payments.
Again, The pro-forma was done for a different track I just wanted to give some guidelines as a lot of people miss all of the costs associated with running a track.
I have seen so many people get into the track business with a fancy business plan and get a bunch of pleasant surprises.
$15k for insurance?
Hey, I would love to get rates from AARA but they have not replied to any of the numerous emails and phone messages I have left for them. You will have a tough time selling those annual membership dealios If you are in an area that has a surplus of riding areas. It sounds like that is the case in the dfw area.
I have a tough time buying insurance from people that don't return messages. It isn't a good sign.
Like I said before, Go work some races, take notes, do the math.
Don't base your future on a bunch of internet posts, most of which are from people that have no clue about what is involved.
Besides the Sub-Prime Mortagage problem and higher than average Gas prices what's wrong with the economy?
You need to read before you criticize. I'll say this slowly so you can get it ........It..... is..... a.... Pro-Forma, the guy needs guidelines, the numbers aren't for his track. He needs to add his numbers and projections. GET IT?
While you are quick to criticize you offer no help to a guy who is trying to build a dream. Why don't you provide creative and workable suggestions rather than shitting on someone elses dream. If you don't like the Track-Business then get out, but if you have knowledge someone else can use why dont you share that instead of your sarcasm.
Pit Row
While you are quick to criticize you offer no help to a guy who is trying to build a dream. Why don't you provide creative and workable suggestions rather than shitting on someone elses dream. If you don't like the Track-Business then get out, but if you have knowledge someone else can use why dont you share that instead of your sarcasm.[/quote:1t5iqiom]
You mean like this.....
"[i:1t5iqiom]Like I said before, Go work some races, take notes, do the math.
Don't base your future on a bunch of internet posts, most of which are from people that have no clue about what is involved.[/i:1t5iqiom]"
I don't care what business degree you have, or what business you have experience in there is nothing that will prepare you for promoting better than working some events and doing the math.
This is what I wanted to do from the moment I realized it was probably the only way i would make a living in this sport, because it sure wasn't going to happen with me on the bike.
I won't bore you with the details of my work experience except to say I have been working at tracks for 20 years and running my own events for 12 years (over 400 events and countless practices).
I am not just speaking from my own experience on this. I am refering more to all the tracks I have seen come and go with shattered dreams because of unrealistic expectations and faulty math.
People that refused to believe that a "love of the sport" would wear out quickly when reality sets in.
I see people posting that there is a surplus of tracks in the DFW area. I guess loving the sport and dreaming harder than all the others already cutting each others throats will work for him. He is probably the exception huh?
Regardless of what you may think It is not my intention to bust his bubble.
I just think he needs a better idea what he is getting into, and I am not talking about just what you will get by changing a decimel point here and a zero there.
You didn;t look very close then as you missed the Heavy Equipment Lease Payments and Down Payments.
Again, The pro-forma was done for a different track I just wanted to give some guidelines as a lot of people miss all of the costs associated with running a track.[/quote:2lrw0qd4]
The numbers are VERY misleading.
You can't buy 100 acres anywhere (that would support a MX track) for $100,000.
$16,200 for leases for a water truck, loader, dozer, tractor...Dreamville!!!
You didn;t look very close then as you missed the Heavy Equipment Lease Payments and Down Payments.
Again, The pro-forma was done for a different track I just wanted to give some guidelines as a lot of people miss all of the costs associated with running a track.[/quote:1i21gmvo]
The numbers are VERY misleading.
You can't buy 100 acres anywhere (that would support a MX track) for $100,000.
$16,200 for leases for a water truck, loader, dozer, tractor...Dreamville!!![/quote:1i21gmvo]
If the pro-forma was accurate, it would show a $64k net loss instead of a $64k net profit.
You didn;t look very close then as you missed the Heavy Equipment Lease Payments and Down Payments.
Again, The pro-forma was done for a different track I just wanted to give some guidelines as a lot of people miss all of the costs associated with running a track.[/quote:2us4pxse]
The numbers are VERY misleading.
You can't buy 100 acres anywhere (that would support a MX track) for $100,000.
$16,200 for leases for a water truck, loader, dozer, tractor...Dreamville!!![/quote:2us4pxse]
If the pro-forma was accurate, it would show a $64k net loss instead of a $64k net profit.[/quote:2us4pxse]
Huck and CampP,
I would love to sit here and have a battle of wits with you, but you both are obviously unarmed.
One more time for the intelectually challenged.....THIS IS NOT HIS PRO_FORMA, IT IS A TEMPLATE, Fill in the numbers per your market area; that inludes land costs, equipment leasing, etc... What was given means nothing without accurate market data. GET IT????? Oh wait I'm sure you don't so let me say it again...IT IS A TEMPLATE!!!!!!! IT IS NOT ACTUAL.
Now I know why FlaRider gets so pissed off at the morons on this board. I think I only have about 10-15 posts and I am frustrated as hell.
You guys have some sort of burning need to add your inane editorial comment but the fact of the matter is you have no idea what your talking about, you may know a little about the track business but you obviously aren't doing it very well or you would be making a lot more money and be a lot happier. And frankly I dont give a shit if you own a racetrack or not, you're obviously very bitter and it comes across is you posts. Maybe if you changed your attitude and focused more on customer service and emerging technologies maybe you would do a little better in the Track business. Your comment about PeeWee parents clearly shows your lack of respect for your paying customers. Why don't you find ways to improve their experience at your track, gain their loyalty and the $$$$ will follow. Better yet why don't you sell your albatross to someone who can make it better and actually provide an environment that puts the customer first.
Huck and CampP,
I would love to sit here and have a battle of wits with you, but you both are obviously unarmed.
One more time for the intelectually challenged.....THIS IS NOT HIS PRO_FORMA, IT IS A TEMPLATE, Fill in the numbers per your market area; that inludes land costs, equipment leasing, etc... What was given means nothing without accurate market data. GET IT????? Oh wait I'm sure you don't so let me say it again...IT IS A TEMPLATE!!!!!!! IT IS NOT ACTUAL.
Now I know why FlaRider gets so pissed off at the morons on this board. I think I only have about 10-15 posts and I am frustrated as hell.
You guys have some sort of burning need to add your inane editorial comment but the fact of the matter is you have no idea what your talking about, you may know a little about the track business but you obviously aren't doing it very well or you would be making a lot more money and be a lot happier. And frankly I dont give a shit if you own a racetrack or not, you're obviously very bitter and it comes across is you posts. Maybe if you changed your attitude and focused more on customer service and emerging technologies maybe you would do a little better in the Track business. Your comment about PeeWee parents clearly shows your lack of respect for your paying customers. Why don't you find ways to improve their experience at your track, gain their loyalty and the $$$$ will follow. Better yet why don't you sell your albatross to someone who can make it better and actually provide an environment that puts the customer first.[/quote:uwcyp1kz]
Maybe you should change your name to Old-fat-tired-bitter-misleading...
You posted your information as if that is what a track will make...I would be willing to bet that there are only a SMALL handful of tracks in the US that can pay the owner/manager $60,000 and still show another $6x,xxx profit. No way!!
Lowering yourself to name calling and insults definitely shows what kind of person that you are. Congratulations!
BTW...if you are going to try to make fun of other's intelligence, at least learn how to spell "intellectually"!
Huck and CampP,
I would love to sit here and have a battle of wits with you, but you both are obviously unarmed.
One more time for the intelectually challenged.....THIS IS NOT HIS PRO_FORMA, IT IS A TEMPLATE, Fill in the numbers per your market area; that inludes land costs, equipment leasing, etc... What was given means nothing without accurate market data. GET IT????? Oh wait I'm sure you don't so let me say it again...IT IS A TEMPLATE!!!!!!! IT IS NOT ACTUAL.
Now I know why FlaRider gets so pissed off at the morons on this board. I think I only have about 10-15 posts and I am frustrated as hell.
You guys have some sort of burning need to add your inane editorial comment but the fact of the matter is you have no idea what your talking about, you may know a little about the track business but you obviously aren't doing it very well or you would be making a lot more money and be a lot happier. And frankly I dont give a shit if you own a racetrack or not, you're obviously very bitter and it comes across is you posts. Maybe if you changed your attitude and focused more on customer service and emerging technologies maybe you would do a little better in the Track business. Your comment about PeeWee parents clearly shows your lack of respect for your paying customers. Why don't you find ways to improve their experience at your track, gain their loyalty and the $$$$ will follow. Better yet why don't you sell your albatross to someone who can make it better and actually provide an environment that puts the customer first.[/quote:2kcvikoo]
Maybe you should change your name to Old-fat-tired-bitter-misleading...
You posted your information as if that is what a track will make...I would be willing to bet that there are only a SMALL handful of tracks in the US that can pay the owner/manager $60,000 and still show another $6x,xxx profit. No way!!
Lowering yourself to name calling and insults definitely shows what kind of person that you are. Congratulations!
BTW...if you are going to try to make fun of other's intelligence, at least learn how to spell "intellectually"![/quote:2kcvikoo]
You still don't get it and I am afraid I can't help you any further.
I understand it's pro-forma, but are those numbers real for a track that you have been involved with? Were they a projected business plan?
I'm asking because your post implies that these are actual numbers for a particular market you are familiar with? I'm wondering where this market is because like most folks here, I have entertained the thought of opening a track in the past. That was several years back and from what I've seen over the past 10 years, I don't know how anyone could make money from a track without significant startup capital. As Cam suggests, two years or more in the red if everything goes well and you have all the bases covered (good dirt, people, and equipment).
I understand it's pro-forma, but are those numbers real for a track that you have been involved with? Were they a projected business plan?
I'm asking because your post implies that these are actual numbers for a particular market you are familiar with? I'm wondering where this market is because like most folks here, I have entertained the thought of opening a track in the past. That was several years back and from what I've seen over the past 10 years, I don't know how anyone could make money from a track without significant startup capital. As Cam suggests, two years or more in the red if everything goes well and you have all the bases covered (good dirt, people, and equipment).[/quote:3vpws95h]
Yes, this is a real track. It is located in Dreamville. It's right past Lala-land.
And old-fat-tired...I do understand that those numbers are "made up". The original poster wanted information about a track, not numbers pulled out of the sky.
Why not figure on 1,000 racers at $50.00 and 10,000 spectators at $20.00 (of course, 1,500 of them will be under 6 so they'll be free)? We should be able to draw this amount of racers to the 5 races per week that we have. The other 2 days will be practice days. Plus, we can buy 1,260 acres for $23,021 and rent some equipment for around $32.00 a year. That $32.00 should cover 2 water trucks, dozer, loader, dump truck, disc, tractor, bobcat, and a decked out Kawasaki Mule for the EMT's. We'll have $1.75 in the sound system so that EVERYBODY can hear the announcer crystal clear...we might as well put a big dome over the whole 1,260 acres...that will cost around $3,832.31. We will make close to $1,349,569.03 per year and not have to invest a penny of our own money. It will be grand!
I understand it's pro-forma, but are those numbers real for a track that you have been involved with? Were they a projected business plan?
I'm asking because your post implies that these are actual numbers for a particular market you are familiar with? I'm wondering where this market is because like most folks here, I have entertained the thought of opening a track in the past. That was several years back and from what I've seen over the past 10 years, I don't know how anyone could make money from a track without significant startup capital. As Cam suggests, two years or more in the red if everything goes well and you have all the bases covered (good dirt, people, and equipment).[/quote:1pvjj47u]
[quote="huck":1pvjj47u][quote="txmxer":1pvjj47u]OFT...I think you are saying the numbers are meaningless...this is a pretty good list of the items that need to be considered?
I understand it's pro-forma, but are those numbers real for a track that you have been involved with? Were they a projected business plan?
I'm asking because your post implies that these are actual numbers for a particular market you are familiar with? I'm wondering where this market is because like most folks here, I have entertained the thought of opening a track in the past. That was several years back and from what I've seen over the past 10 years, I don't know how anyone could make money from a track without significant startup capital. As Cam suggests, two years or more in the red if everything goes well and you have all the bases covered (good dirt, people, and equipment).[/quote:1pvjj47u]
Yes, this is a real track. It is located in Dreamville. It's right past Lala-land.
And old-fat-tired...I do understand that those numbers are "made up". The original poster wanted information about a track, not numbers pulled out of the sky.
Why not figure on 1,000 racers at $50.00 and 10,000 spectators at $20.00 (of course, 1,500 of them will be under 6 so they'll be free)? We should be able to draw this amount of racers to the 5 races per week that we have. The other 2 days will be practice days. Plus, we can buy 1,260 acres for $23,021 and rent some equipment for around $32.00 a year. That $32.00 should cover 2 water trucks, dozer, loader, dump truck, disc, tractor, bobcat, and a decked out Kawasaki Mule for the EMT's. We'll have $1.75 in the sound system so that EVERYBODY can hear the announcer crystal clear...we might as well put a big dome over the whole 1,260 acres...that will cost around $3,832.31. We will make close to $1,349,569.03 per year and not have to invest a penny of our own money. It will be grand!
You still don't get it....no wonder you're not making any money.
You still don't get it....no wonder you're not making any money.[/quote:32sej738]
I'm doing just fine. Thanks for your concern though...
Texas, USA
Projections
Projected Income
Monthly Races Monthly Annually
Competition Fees
350 Racers $30.00 Per Class $10,500.00 $105,000
100 Racers-2nd Class $25.00 Per Class $2,500.00 $ 25,000
Gate Fee
350 Racers $10 per person $3,500.00
300 Spectators (age 13+) $10 per person $3,000.00
100 Spectatators(age 5-12) $5.00 per person $500.00
100 Spectatators(age 0-4)) Free $-
Total Monthly Race Income $20,000.00 x10 Months $200,000.00
Annually
Total Yearly Race Income $200,000.00
Weekly Practice Daily Weekly Monthly 10 Months 43 weeks
250 Riders per week (big bike) $15.00 $3,750.00 $16,250.00 10 Months $162,500.00
100 Riders per week (small bike)$10.00 $1,000.00 $4,333.00 10 Months $43,333.33
Total Race/Practice Fees (Income) $20,583.00 10 Months $205,833.33
Wages and Adminstrative Costs Annual
Management Wages $60,000.00
Employee Wages $150,000.00
Land Cost-Mortgage (100,000 loan) $8,400.00
Start Up Costs (10 yr Ammortization) $15,200.00
Utilities $12,000.00
Office & Supplies $4,000.00
Advertising $36,000.00
Insurance $15,000.00
Dues & Subscriptions $1,500.00
Merch. Bnk Chrgs $1,000.00
Misc.Expenses $5,000.00
Heavy Equipment Lease $16,200.00
Mantenance & Repairs $6,000.00
Gas/Deisel-Heavy Equipment $12,000.00
Total Wages and Adminstrative Costs $342,300.00
Start Up Costs
Well Drilling $10,000.00
Water Tank $6,000.00
Road Excavation $5,000.00
Track Building $50,000.00
Fencing $20,000.00
Out Buildings $10,000.00
Civil Engineering $5,000.00
Permits $1,000.00
Heavy Equipment $25,000.00 Lease Down Payment
Property Down Payment $20,000.00
Total Start Up Costs $152,000.00
Total Income Race $200,000.00
Total Income Practice $205,833.00
Less Costs $(342,300.00)
Total Net Income $63,533.00
IRR (internal rate of return) 41%[/quote:eoip3607]
few things I see missing, taxes, taxes , and more taxes.
no place to "plug" those in?
350 "riders" (sign ups= about 175 real bodies.)
PS, if you truely are looking at this, I have a guy that does my insurance and does pretty well. Send me a pm. We are trying to get AmA to approve this company, it's a good value. imho.
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