Attn: Suspension geniuses

Edited Date/Time 1/24/2012 6:35pm
Or is it genii? Whatever...

I'm trying to get busy setting my CR250R up for this season. The thing I'm humming and hawing about is whether or not to change out the springs. The consensus of most suspension places web sites is that with my scrawny 135lb (w/o gear) frame, I should be running a .38 or .40 kg/mm in the front and a 4.6 in the back, as opposed to the stock .43 and 4.9.

The reason I'm waffling on this is, for the most part, I've been fairly happy with the suspension. The recommended springs would be a drastic change, and I really don't want to mess things up. That may be because I've never had a bike with good suspension and don't know any different. It's stiff all right, but the action is pretty smooth, and I kinda like it that way anyway. The only reason I'm even considering changing things up (after owning the bike since it was new in '02) is that the last couple of years, I haven't been on the bike much at all, and the little choppy bumps and such that I used to hit hard enough to roll over now toss me around like a rag doll. But will it still be stiff enough for me to charge through knee deep sand whoops in 4th or 5th without lawn darting myself into oblivion? Or save my ass when I turn a double-double-double into a double-two and two thirds but not quite triple-case it and bounce over the last jump?

Thanks.
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3/9/2008 4:07pm Edited Date/Time 3/9/2008 7:32pm
I'm not a suspension expert, but I will give my real world experience. Being a light weight like your self, I would say yes, go with the recommended spring settings. I would actually go with a 0.42 in the front if it is available for that model. The springs make such a difference and for the better. If you have some money available, go with a revalve as well, I have had good success with Factory connection. That being said, give them your exact riding ability and type of terrain, riding style(aggressive or finesse) and they will get you a sweet handling bike and yes, you will wonder why you didn't do it in the beginning!! For myself, suspension is the first if not the one of the only mods I do to my bike.
YamieRider411
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3/9/2008 4:37pm
Get it re-valved and buy the springs for your weight... Believe me; you won't ride stock suspension again. Enzo's been doing mine for years. I swear by their work... You don't always need more power but you can alway use a better handling bike.
3/9/2008 4:50pm
I have to agree with the others. Get off their websites and just call them up. Tell them your concerns and give them your riding specifics. They will tell you what springs you need and revalve to your ablility and weight. You might not even need different springs. You can spend a couple hundred on springs and be uncertain of what you got until you ride, or you can send it off for around $400 and have the best suspention you ever had, $600 if you need springs. You'll wonder why you never did it before and kick yourself for not doing it sooner.
flarider
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3/9/2008 4:53pm
Consider a more local suspension person/company.

When dealing with a local, you can get a more personal service, more tailor made and usually also some trackside service and fine tuning if necessary.

Hard to do all of that over the phone and through UPS

The Shop

wildbill
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3/9/2008 5:07pm
some locals have pizza by the slice too.
CamP
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3/9/2008 5:28pm
I would suggest installing the optional light Honda springs and not touch the valving. The OEM springs are pretty cheap through service Honda.
3/9/2008 5:40pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
[quote="flarider":1jsijm5o]Consider a more local suspension person/company.

When dealing with a local, you can get a more personal service, more tailor made and usually also some trackside service and fine tuning if necessary.

Hard to do all of that over the phone and through UPS[/quote:1jsijm5o]





I agree. The big shops usually sale you on a lot of add ons (Oil lockcollars,pressure springs etc..) that you don't need. Go with a local guy and he can help you get it tweaked.
3/9/2008 8:02pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
[quote="flarider":16vsa44y]Consider a more local suspension person/company.

When dealing with a local, you can get a more personal service, more tailor made and usually also some trackside service and fine tuning if necessary.

Hard to do all of that over the phone and through UPS[/quote:16vsa44y]

DING, ding, ding!!
BIGHEAD
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3/9/2008 8:20pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
Springs are the single most important thing you can do to your suspension and offer the biggest difference in performance. Valving is a pretty small change in overall performance and more of a fine tuning aspect. When I go testing I try all kinds of insane shit and contraptions... In the end the differences are pretty small. The single biggest aspect of how your suspension works is the design of the components themselves with the biggest being the machined profile of the fork tubes.

Most of the stuff you see in suspension catalogs is unnecessary fluff. There's a huge company selling oil lock collars for new bikes that is an anodized version of the stock piece that Showa updated in 06. There's also a few companies that sell "valves" that you don't need. It's unreal the shit the big companies get away with because well they are a big company and they must know what they are doing. People let the image of a company sway their judgment. I am sure this will come off as a bitter "jealousy" type post but oh well...

The thing that leads to good suspension is nothing more than the correct spring for the application and a sound tuning technique. Not anodizing...


As for springs, avoid spring generators. They are based on the same mathematic equation for EVERY bike of the same size! That is a crap shoot at best. Call the company and ask them what springs they think you should run. I will bet you one OGIO bag that it's different than what the company's spring rate generator comes up with.

Flarider being an asshole he at least gave good advice. Going local is sometimes a difficult proposition because obviously they don't have huge amounts of credibility and it is more of a risk in quality. When and if you do go local avoid franchises. People that own franchises pretty much didn't know how to do suspension before hand so they really don't know the science behind the suspension. They basically just read in a book what to put in. Find an established company with at least a few local riders that you can get their opinion of. Even ask people who aren't running their stuff what they think. A lot of the time the reason why they aren't running it is because of a problem they had with them.

If you go for a huge company... ENZO

In the end ..

.41 in the front and a 4.6 in the rear. The springs you have now are probably causing more problems for you than you switching to the proper springs. In other words you should see more positives than negatives (if any) by dropping to a lower rate.
3/9/2008 11:14pm
Thanks for the replies everyone. No worries about staying local, sending stuff over the border is too much of a hassle right now, especially with the DG paperwork everyone SHOULD be filling out involving shocks (Class 2.2, non-flammable gas under pressure, or an extra $50 in courier speak). Nothing like having your stuff tied up in customs hell for months over a glitch in paperwork. So I'll take what I'm learning here, and go talk to someone local.

I think I've always known that the bike was over sprung, I'm just stubborn when it comes to changing things when they work okay-ish, even if they don't work at all in some situations, mostly because I'm afraid of screwing things up and making it worse. Better the devil you know and all. And I don't trust the spring generators, but they did make me start to ask some questions, at least. I'm going to try some new springs. Probably aim for the .41 and 4.6 combo, we'll see. Then I'll spend a couple of days playing with clickers to get it sorted out.

As for revalving, I don't really think it needs it, to be honest. Once the suspension starts moving, it works quite nicely, it's getting it to move in the first place that needs work. Having owned and ridden a few mid '90s CR125s and early 2000s KTMs, I know a good mid stroke spike or weird back end lock up when I feel it. But most people I've previously discussed this with have sworn up and down that my bike either needed entirely new internals front and back, or I should just change the oil (well, thank you Capt. Obvious!) and not bother with springs or anything else, neither of which I ever believed was the right answer.

Anyways, after two years with almost no riding at all, this years looking up already! Hopefully, we'll get the bike (and rider) working well and have one hell of a good year.
3/9/2008 11:39pm
Haha, funny you mention scared of trying new things in fear of screwing things up. At one track I rode at, I helped a fairly fast intermediate dial his bike in, he revealed to me, that he never touched his suspension. I was watching him ride and something wasn't right, the bike wasn't squatting in the corners and kicking him in whoops. I found out his race sag was out, we played on some rebound adjustments, he was impressed! Don't be scared to mess around with settings, just write down where you are at and go ride. Same goes for jetting. Some fast people can ride a bike that is fairly out of tune, but make for it by their riding ability. You will be amazed what a little fine tuning(in bike performance and handling) does in relieving rider work load! Just don't try something new, on race day!!
andymoto
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3/10/2008 12:11am
Unless you are a local/National Pro or solid top Intermediate, I'd save the dough.
One, it's a '02. Spending a bunch of money you will never get back for that year of bike if you ever want to sell it.
I always advocate to riders who wants the whole kit and caboodle to meet me at a track and work on everything possible combination available stock first before deciding to change valving, etc.
I raced stock suspension thru out my racing career; from Novice to local expert/Vet Pro; I was happy with it always; and I never blamed the suspension for my crashes; just fine tuned it the best I could for what's available.

It's just my op. Wish you the best in whatever you do.
3/10/2008 7:13am
Even on a '02 a couple hundred on the correct springs would be money well spent.

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