Gunshow "Loophole"

Titan1
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Edited Date/Time 2/7/2016 12:14pm
Can any of you gun nuts verify if this is truth, partial truth, or carefully edited fiction?

https://youtu.be/UEihkjKNhN8
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1/28/2016 11:28am Edited Date/Time 1/28/2016 11:31am
if you own a gun, apparently you are a gun nut.
Went to a gun show with my buddy 10 years ago and he was buying a rifle. He got a DWI about a year earlier. They ran a check on him and he was denied. Never said why, but that is only thing on his record so he guessed that was why.
Titan1
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1/28/2016 11:37am
if you own a gun, apparently you are a gun nut. Went to a gun show with my buddy 10 years ago and he was buying...
if you own a gun, apparently you are a gun nut.
Went to a gun show with my buddy 10 years ago and he was buying a rifle. He got a DWI about a year earlier. They ran a check on him and he was denied. Never said why, but that is only thing on his record so he guessed that was why.
Sorry, I should have put "gun nut" in parenthesis...I was being a bit sarcastic with it. I own guns...but I'm far from an enthusiast.
newmann
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1/28/2016 11:53am
That's just Crowder putting to rest all the "gun show loophole" bullshit that the left preaches so much. Yeah, automatic weapons too....lol. Well done I might add.Smile
hvaughn88
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1/28/2016 12:04pm
It's kinda funny how inaccurate things get perpetuated. I've had a background check on every single gun I've ever purchased. All these people that state you don't have to have one, well I've certainly never seen it. Hell, one of the main dealers I use was best friends with my dad in school, has known me since birth and guess what...background check every time.

And yeah, the automatic weapon part was hilarious. It's amazing how many people don't know what they don't know and still present it as factual.

The Shop

1/28/2016 5:59pm Edited Date/Time 1/28/2016 8:25pm
Go to a gun show. Try and buy a gun. Find out for yourselves.

After you pass the Check you can say "nah, I don't wanna gun. Just wanted to see if you'd check me."
JRT812
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1/28/2016 8:24pm
From my experience, purchasing a gun from a gun show is no different from buying from a local store. The people to be aware of are private sellers.
watson
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1/29/2016 7:22pm
JRT812 wrote:
From my experience, purchasing a gun from a gun show is no different from buying from a local store. The people to be aware of are...
From my experience, purchasing a gun from a gun show is no different from buying from a local store. The people to be aware of are private sellers.
Bingo. Anyone who thinks all private sellers wholly abide by FFL transfers (even this only applies to relatively recent purchases from licensed dealers) are fooling themselves. If fact, most people who have been gun owners over time know this is not the case.

Even then, a form 4473 is incredibly limited (meaning, ineffective) when it comes to people who are mentally unfit to own weapons. This has been proven time and time again with the wave of mass shooting events in this country; most of which bought their guns 100% legally.
1/29/2016 9:45pm
You're on a Friday night right rampage. Take the guns. Give them single payer health insurance and no more mentally unstable fools will attempt mass murder with a pressure cooker in Boston.
watson
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1/30/2016 10:04am
You're on a Friday night right rampage. Take the guns. Give them single payer health insurance and no more mentally unstable fools will attempt mass murder...
You're on a Friday night right rampage. Take the guns. Give them single payer health insurance and no more mentally unstable fools will attempt mass murder with a pressure cooker in Boston.
You have very poor reading comprehension, or are very good at inserting political stances where there is none to avoid having a mature and informed conversation about the issue. No-where did I say that we should take guns from law-abiding and mentally sound citizens, and any vision you have of me as being staunchly liberal is a mistake on your part; or you're just a bi-product of the extremely stupid American political spectrum where everyone unquestionably believes you can only be all the way to the right or all the way to the left. I simply do my own thinking.

We'll talk about the pressure cookers when we get there, but since the latest round of mass shootings have pretty much been exclusively done with firearms that mentally insane people purchase legally; we can hold off on the metal diarrhea and purely hypothetical arguments and focus on the actual trends occurring.

Inform yourself; don't let the NRA (or anyone else) do your thinking for you.
XXVoid MainXX
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1/31/2016 6:33pm
From what I understand the gun show loophole is for private sellers. Private sellers do not need to do a background check on you. However, you most likely won't find private sellers AT a gun show. Why? There is a fee to sell at a gun show and it's not worth it for private sellers to take 1 or 2 guns to sell at a gun show.
FastEddy
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1/31/2016 6:49pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2016 7:02pm
From what I understand the gun show loophole is for private sellers. Private sellers do not need to do a background check on you. However, you...
From what I understand the gun show loophole is for private sellers. Private sellers do not need to do a background check on you. However, you most likely won't find private sellers AT a gun show. Why? There is a fee to sell at a gun show and it's not worth it for private sellers to take 1 or 2 guns to sell at a gun show.
Some Counties and States have closed this loophole.
Basically...NO private sales allowed on the property that is hosting the gun show - that means inside or outside in the parking lot - you can be arrested.

When I lived in Florida in Pinellas County it was illegal to do private sales or trades at gun shows and the cops would set up stings.However,in adjoining Counties it wasn't.So obviously more people would attend those shows with their private collections and try to trade off or even sell with no BG checks.
That's what they are trying to prevent.

In the State of Washington now - ALL private sales require a NIC's check.
Even for a guy selling a .22 rifle off ArmsList.

My advice in regards to shows...if they want to stop people from attending shows that shouldn't have guns or ammo.
Just make everyone pass NICS before entering(excluding minors accompanied by adults).
Or put a new system in place similar to NICS - that checks people at the door.
Seems like it would be easier and it would even keep people who aren't allowed to have firearms from purchasing parts and ammo at shows. The price of the check could be added into door admission.
1 NICS check is already good for all day - if you save your number.
You can use it at other dealers without them calling you in again.

It's an idea...
Whether it would really reduce gun crime or not is beyond me,I don't have a working crystal ball. Smile

Hut
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1/31/2016 7:43pm Edited Date/Time 1/31/2016 8:19pm
FastEddy wrote:
Some Counties and States have closed this loophole. Basically...NO private sales allowed on the property that is hosting the gun show - that means inside or...
Some Counties and States have closed this loophole.
Basically...NO private sales allowed on the property that is hosting the gun show - that means inside or outside in the parking lot - you can be arrested.

When I lived in Florida in Pinellas County it was illegal to do private sales or trades at gun shows and the cops would set up stings.However,in adjoining Counties it wasn't.So obviously more people would attend those shows with their private collections and try to trade off or even sell with no BG checks.
That's what they are trying to prevent.

In the State of Washington now - ALL private sales require a NIC's check.
Even for a guy selling a .22 rifle off ArmsList.

My advice in regards to shows...if they want to stop people from attending shows that shouldn't have guns or ammo.
Just make everyone pass NICS before entering(excluding minors accompanied by adults).
Or put a new system in place similar to NICS - that checks people at the door.
Seems like it would be easier and it would even keep people who aren't allowed to have firearms from purchasing parts and ammo at shows. The price of the check could be added into door admission.
1 NICS check is already good for all day - if you save your number.
You can use it at other dealers without them calling you in again.

It's an idea...
Whether it would really reduce gun crime or not is beyond me,I don't have a working crystal ball. Smile

Makes too much sense but I can only imagine the shit storm that would take place if one of the Presidential candidates suggested that. lol
IWreckALot
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2/1/2016 8:24am
FastEddy wrote:
Some Counties and States have closed this loophole. Basically...NO private sales allowed on the property that is hosting the gun show - that means inside or...
Some Counties and States have closed this loophole.
Basically...NO private sales allowed on the property that is hosting the gun show - that means inside or outside in the parking lot - you can be arrested.

When I lived in Florida in Pinellas County it was illegal to do private sales or trades at gun shows and the cops would set up stings.However,in adjoining Counties it wasn't.So obviously more people would attend those shows with their private collections and try to trade off or even sell with no BG checks.
That's what they are trying to prevent.

In the State of Washington now - ALL private sales require a NIC's check.
Even for a guy selling a .22 rifle off ArmsList.

My advice in regards to shows...if they want to stop people from attending shows that shouldn't have guns or ammo.
Just make everyone pass NICS before entering(excluding minors accompanied by adults).
Or put a new system in place similar to NICS - that checks people at the door.
Seems like it would be easier and it would even keep people who aren't allowed to have firearms from purchasing parts and ammo at shows. The price of the check could be added into door admission.
1 NICS check is already good for all day - if you save your number.
You can use it at other dealers without them calling you in again.

It's an idea...
Whether it would really reduce gun crime or not is beyond me,I don't have a working crystal ball. Smile

Hut wrote:
Makes too much sense but I can only imagine the shit storm that would take place if one of the Presidential candidates suggested that. lol
The line to get into the gunshows gets rather long at times. It would probably add at least a minute and probably more per customer and there are gun shows with thousands of people. I don't know that that's a practical suggestion.

I believe private transactions are made largely outside of gun shows. And the fact that they're calling it the "gunshow loophole" proves that they're arbitrarily trying to vilify gun shows. There are no loopholes that the gunshow provides rather it really should be called the "straw man loop hole" or even call it a third party loophole. Because that is exactly what it is.
Mr. G
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2/1/2016 2:47pm
Not too long ago I bought a Springfield 45 auto from a friend of mine. Didn't go through a shop. Just handed him the money and then sent a form to DOJ. They sent back a letter showing their approval. Not really a loophole as I contacted DOJ but no shop used.
FastEddy
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2/1/2016 6:48pm Edited Date/Time 2/1/2016 7:18pm
IWreckALot wrote:
The line to get into the gunshows gets rather long at times. It would probably add at least a minute and probably more per customer and...
The line to get into the gunshows gets rather long at times. It would probably add at least a minute and probably more per customer and there are gun shows with thousands of people. I don't know that that's a practical suggestion.

I believe private transactions are made largely outside of gun shows. And the fact that they're calling it the "gunshow loophole" proves that they're arbitrarily trying to vilify gun shows. There are no loopholes that the gunshow provides rather it really should be called the "straw man loop hole" or even call it a third party loophole. Because that is exactly what it is.
I suppose it depends on the venue & turn out what the delay times would be.

I've attended shows from coast to coast and have been going to them on a somewhat regular basis since around 1990.
I used to even set-up booths at them often when I worked in the industry.
I also did it as a private seller for a short period of time also,basically bartering.
Mainly always did a lot of trading with other trusted private parties.
I would love to see the shows go back to the days of how it used to be.
With mainly private party collectors trading buying & selling and very few FFL dealers with jacked up prices.
It seems these days ,it's a lot of over priced dealers,rather than collectors looking to trade.
IMO - it's sorta ruined the shows - they used to be like swap meets in a sense - now they are dealer shows.
A new system with a pre approved NICS transaction could possibly set a trusted foundation for open trading
like it used to be. Possibly maybe even temp FFL's that are good for 3 days to collectors/traders.
I'm just trying to think outside the box on what could be done to keep the bad people OUT and even make the shows better for those who attend.
I think there's always room for improvement with the systems we have in place.

And like Watson said in this tread - we need to make it harder for mentally unfit people to own weapons and ammo in general...And personally I don't believe these sorts of people have any business attending the shows and the same goes with criminals. It's what originally gave the shows a bad name.
They started becoming a problem in some counties and all around the country in general for various reasons.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me ,but like I said I'm just throwing ideas out there.
fins227
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2/1/2016 8:14pm
IWreckALot wrote:
The line to get into the gunshows gets rather long at times. It would probably add at least a minute and probably more per customer and...
The line to get into the gunshows gets rather long at times. It would probably add at least a minute and probably more per customer and there are gun shows with thousands of people. I don't know that that's a practical suggestion.

I believe private transactions are made largely outside of gun shows. And the fact that they're calling it the "gunshow loophole" proves that they're arbitrarily trying to vilify gun shows. There are no loopholes that the gunshow provides rather it really should be called the "straw man loop hole" or even call it a third party loophole. Because that is exactly what it is.
Hell bound! Sorry I was just looking to see where some of you guys were from when I saw Fort Worth.

XXVoid MainXX
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2/1/2016 9:34pm
I think background checks are bullshit though. It should be like back when I was a kid and could just walk into the hardware store and buy whatever friggin' gun I want. Shall not be infringed.
FastEddy
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2/1/2016 9:42pm Edited Date/Time 2/1/2016 9:48pm
I think background checks are bullshit though. It should be like back when I was a kid and could just walk into the hardware store and...
I think background checks are bullshit though. It should be like back when I was a kid and could just walk into the hardware store and buy whatever friggin' gun I want. Shall not be infringed.
To a certain degree I agree with you in regards to law abiding sane citizens.

BUT....
There's gotta be some laws in regards to legitimate sales because dangerous people do exists.
Having total non-infringement for every person that is in this country would be crazy.
Especially inmates in prisons and on death row.
Or even guys out on bail for murder or on parole.
Guys that have been convicted of armed violent crimes etc...
They've got to drawl a line somewhere....
Where to draw the line has always been the realistic question.
Deterrents are obviously a mental thing and don't physically stop people - but we still need them to a certain degree.
They can define whats acceptable in society in a sense.

XXVoid MainXX
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2/1/2016 9:49pm
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. You're not going to stop a bad (or deranged) person from breaking the law and doing whatever he wants. There should be no restrictions. Any restriction just makes it more difficult for the good guy to get a gun. And any restriction is a violation of the 2nd amendment in my mind. Also, gun free zones should be outlawed, everywhere.
FastEddy
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2/1/2016 10:06pm
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. You're not going to stop a bad (or deranged) person from breaking the law and doing...
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. You're not going to stop a bad (or deranged) person from breaking the law and doing whatever he wants. There should be no restrictions. Any restriction just makes it more difficult for the good guy to get a gun. And any restriction is a violation of the 2nd amendment in my mind. Also, gun free zones should be outlawed, everywhere.
I understand what you are saying - from a law abiding citizen point of view.


But - how well would our prison system work if they didn't infringe on the inmates 2A.
Or how worse would society be or even schools if it didn't infringe on minors 2A.
I could list many infringements that releasing them could be very detrimental to our society.
I just see it as we have to draw the line somewhere.

Having 2000 guys on death row armed with 50.cal Barrets, that's insane to me if we can prevent it.
Do you think they would sit there peacefully?

Making it legal for a 7 or 10 year old to be able to walk into hardware store and cash & carry a Cobray Mac-11 semi auto and take it to school would be pretty crazy. Kids these days would do that sorta shit.

I'm giving you extreme examples OBVIOUSLY.
But there needs to be a place we draw the line.






newmann
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2/3/2016 4:19pm
MXR wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/02/03/driver-points-gun-at-motorcyclist-helmet-cam-footage-pkg.kvvu?iid=ob_MobileWeb_singleLink_pool&iref=obnetwork Got to love the gun nuts and the NRA
Hey man, don't be starting shit. Feinstein said it was legal!Laughing

https://youtu.be/Qn5h5rumzNw
2/4/2016 10:22pm
At least this video shows the truth about buying from a dealer. No full autos can be sold to anyone unless they have a class 3 license, no gun show loophole and shows the libs don't know anything. Like someone else said, the so called "loophole" is private sales between two citizens. Anytime you go through the dealer you must do a background check. Hell, in California you can't buy from a private party without going to a dealer, doing a background check and waiting the stupid 10 days before you can pick up your gun. Other states, and even counties in states have their own laws, when it comes to private party sales. But anytime you are buying from a dealer there is a background check no matter what!
2/5/2016 4:21am
Buy online. No checks !

Oh wait. They ship the gun to the dealer...to set you up with a NICS background check

Read all the RED on the gunbroker.com ads.
newmann
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2/5/2016 4:28am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
At least this video shows the truth about buying from a dealer. No full autos can be sold to anyone unless they have a class 3...
At least this video shows the truth about buying from a dealer. No full autos can be sold to anyone unless they have a class 3 license, no gun show loophole and shows the libs don't know anything. Like someone else said, the so called "loophole" is private sales between two citizens. Anytime you go through the dealer you must do a background check. Hell, in California you can't buy from a private party without going to a dealer, doing a background check and waiting the stupid 10 days before you can pick up your gun. Other states, and even counties in states have their own laws, when it comes to private party sales. But anytime you are buying from a dealer there is a background check no matter what!
Also, any purchase of a full auto firearm results in an additional $200.00 tax to the BATF and a 4-10 month wait before you can take possession. The full auto also has to be a transferrable pre 1986 weapon unless you are a dealer who can have non transferrable samples.
MR. X
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2/5/2016 4:41am
Buy online. No checks ! Oh wait. They ship the gun to the dealer...to set you up with a NICS background check Read all the RED...
Buy online. No checks !

Oh wait. They ship the gun to the dealer...to set you up with a NICS background check

Read all the RED on the gunbroker.com ads.
When NY first rammed the NYS safe act through , online companies wouldn't even send a holster to NYS .
maicoman
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2/5/2016 8:09pm
Go to a gun show. Try and buy a gun. Find out for yourselves. After you pass the Check you can say "nah, I don't wanna...
Go to a gun show. Try and buy a gun. Find out for yourselves.

After you pass the Check you can say "nah, I don't wanna gun. Just wanted to see if you'd check me."
you could try this but I don't know any dealer who would do the check without the funds in hand. FBI is not happy with "practice checks" and you can can expect a call or visit.

maicoman
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2/5/2016 8:25pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
At least this video shows the truth about buying from a dealer. No full autos can be sold to anyone unless they have a class 3...
At least this video shows the truth about buying from a dealer. No full autos can be sold to anyone unless they have a class 3 license, no gun show loophole and shows the libs don't know anything. Like someone else said, the so called "loophole" is private sales between two citizens. Anytime you go through the dealer you must do a background check. Hell, in California you can't buy from a private party without going to a dealer, doing a background check and waiting the stupid 10 days before you can pick up your gun. Other states, and even counties in states have their own laws, when it comes to private party sales. But anytime you are buying from a dealer there is a background check no matter what!
newmann wrote:
Also, any purchase of a full auto firearm results in an additional $200.00 tax to the BATF and a 4-10 month wait before you can take...
Also, any purchase of a full auto firearm results in an additional $200.00 tax to the BATF and a 4-10 month wait before you can take possession. The full auto also has to be a transferrable pre 1986 weapon unless you are a dealer who can have non transferrable samples.
Newmann you are correct, just add some counties require a law letter also.

non-transferable samples are aka as post dealer samples and pre-may dealer samples.

I'll add this stuff in for those who are wondering.

you don't need to be a class 3 dealer to buy a full auto. you can do a full transfer, in state, private party sale without a FFL dealer

all NFA items are transferred on a Form 4

all NFA items are transferred on a Form 4, require passport photo and fingerprint cards, unless transfer is to a trust or corporation that is already on file.

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