Posts
1063
Joined
12/7/2015
Location
Norco, CA, USA
Edited Date/Time
12/31/2015 4:40pm
http://racerxonline.com/2015/12/22/unsung-hero-mitch-payton
Here is an article at the end mitch talks about growing the sport, and i completely agree. its a shame that only the top guys make money, if a rider qualifies for a race they should get money for being in a heat race, if they make a main more money.
Their are too many people who run close to broke because of the costs to ride and race the full series. these riders get some of the worst injuries in sports, and also death sometimes unfortunately. their should be a minimum salary for each race they have qualified for.. if you make top 20 in points in the season the riders should be making atleast 500k. For all the risks and injuries they have to deal with.
what do yall think?
Here is an article at the end mitch talks about growing the sport, and i completely agree. its a shame that only the top guys make money, if a rider qualifies for a race they should get money for being in a heat race, if they make a main more money.
Their are too many people who run close to broke because of the costs to ride and race the full series. these riders get some of the worst injuries in sports, and also death sometimes unfortunately. their should be a minimum salary for each race they have qualified for.. if you make top 20 in points in the season the riders should be making atleast 500k. For all the risks and injuries they have to deal with.
what do yall think?
Speaking of Mitch and growing the sport and salaries and such, it's ironic since he's notorious for paying low salaries and putting win bonuses on the contract. So in other words, if you want to get paid you better be winning. I suppose it's great to talk about growing the financial opportunities of the riders as long as it's not being done with his money?!?
To think a rider in the top twenty should be making $500,000 per year because of risk is just crazy. These guys are entertainers and athletes. You're not looking at a skill set beneficial to the masses that should command that kind of salary for "making the show." If we are utilizing the risk model to determine salary...let's start with our military men and women deployed, first responders, etc. rather than entertainers.
Personally I'm of the opinion that the minimum age should be increased and there should be incentive to get these guys an education to prepare them for life after racing. This is a short career. Too many put all their hope into "making it" and when the dream doesn't happen, they're left with nothing. Incentive life and opportunity outside of being a racer.
The sport is growing. Just differently than how some people think it should be. Long term sustainable careers would be the most benefit rather than a shot at a high salary for a few years. That would help right the situation, especially considering the average career is 25-30 years in the real world as opposed to 5-10 in racing.
Shane
And i agree with Shane on the "PC result based salary" thing. Kind of ironic...
...everyone is on break...they all get paid the same...no one tries...
....
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Somebody is making a killing marketing these motocross guys. They need a riders union just like the nfl players union/association.
Addressing your military contribution is unnecessary, has nothing to do with professional athletes and their salaries. They arent even closely related.
I am only being honest. It is the most dangerous and most expensive sport to be part of. At the same time companies like PC are not making tons of money. Sure they get paid, but it is nothing like other sports or brands.
In order to the race teams to pay more the sport needs to be more available to the masses and safer. Then the sport can grow some. (not like NFL)
I care also that the Pro riders make more money and there are ways of doing it or lowering their costs to race. The sport must evolve and learn.
Example: Feld runs Supercross and Arenacross at the same time of year? HUH? This sport is small enough as it is and now your going to compete against yourself? Anyone who loves the sport would rather stay at home and watch Supercross than go out to watch Arenacross! However, if the sport was Supercross in the spring, Motocross in the summer, and Arenacross in the fall then the lower riders to race more and earn more money! The fans would tune in to the sport all year round for the most part and the advertisers would get more bang for their buck!
That is just one example of how the sport is hurting itself.
go to any track and attendance levels are down at races and even practices to, to some extent.
the american consumer is tapped out and the new normal is just getting by. how can anyone truly afford to ride every weekend when a new 450 costs 10k and everyones wages are stalling out?
the economy is imploding on itself and has been since 2008. it's only going to get worse from here on out ...
I know Ill get flack for this but..these riders are getting paid exactly what they're worth. its what the market is willing to bear...wages will rise once there is a demand for riders.
if all the privateers stopped showing up @ the ama races i'd be willing to bet they'd start offering a purse or entry $$ to bait them back in. as it stands now..all the privateers WILLINGLY pay to participate in this sport.
no one is forcing them too...
the diffrence between now and the 1970s and early 1980s is that America was still a 'free' place so to speak..now big government is breathing down everyones necks and trying to tax us to death and use the police to encroach on our freedoms.
Im sure everyone on here who is above 25 years old has memories of riding on public land, a sand pit, woodds near their house or some riding spot and the cops didnt bother you until the housing boom started...
Sure it looks cool on TV, but unless you currently or have participated in the sport yourself, the interest just isn't going to be there.
Motocross riders don't "deserve" a large salary. They are racing dirtbikes under their own free will. If they are concerned with making a living wage, they should at least look into a backup plan (education, trade). I personally think it is ridiculous what professional athletes get paid in major sports, but, to their defense, the money is already there due to the large fan base. Motocross simply can't compare due to cost and lack of participation.
If it's so simple, why not start your own series? Offer the big bucks like you're promising and the riders will come.
Just because another sport (or field of work) does it, doesn't make it right. Suppose since people have gotten away with crimes, we all should get a free pass too?
You mention that someone is "making a killing" marketing these guys. By marketing them, I'm assuming you mean their agents. Since they're really the ones that market the riders. The series is promoted by promoters. And when you talk about the killing they're making, I'm guessing you've seen the books? There's a significant difference between profit dollars and profit margin. Profit dollars is a net gain. A margin is a percentage return on investment. They may be making a lot of money. But how much did they spend to make it? Without that insight, your argument about the "killing" they're making isn't relevant. You wouldn't spend $100 to make $1, would you? You want a fair return for your investment and risk.
It sounds like everyone wants the riders to be paid more, but only through the promoter. Never mind the stake the teams have in their operations. Want a big name rider? Pay big name money. Don't depend on the series to make the offer look attractive.
Let's also not forget that the price of going to some sporting events has gone up significantly in recent years. It's to the point where families don't go to events often, if at all. Sure, the promoters will pay the riders more. They'll just make sure we pay more (and then some) to cover their extra financial obligation. It's that whole profit margin/dollar thing again.
But don't let me bore you with the details as opposed to your speculation.
Shane
The sport is far more mainstream with live SX and MX on TV than it has ever been and at the same time participation at the local level has never been lower. Proof taking it mainstream is not selling bikes or getting kids interested in participating in the sport.
Pro racing was just as good when the top riders made 100k per year and the risks where the same. This is america. Someone will always take your place if you don't like what your getting paid and would rather work a 8-5 job.
Are we talking about salaries,
Attendance,
Grassroots,
Riders participating in big amateur events.
Bike sales,
Facebook followers,
All are measurable ways to gauge how the sport is doing.
Unfortunately most of them are anemic and if rider salaries are the main thing you are looking at I wouldn't look for any improvement there until there is some serious improvement in some of the other factors, and I don't mean fb stuff.
Too many people with blinders on thinking there's an infinite supply of money and costs don't get passed down.
Growth has to be defined as rider opportunities and ability to earn a living. Which is also a direct function of growth of industry and retail. The sport on the local level is not alive and well. Shops are closing. Race turnouts getting smaller and smaller. Tracks are closing.
I've been picked apart in other threads for saying how the guys with the super trick bikes (regardless of ability) are helping the sport. They're the ones buying new bikes (used bike sales don't matter to manufacturers), and spending money in shops. Many of them are loyal to certain vendors, and continue to pump money into the sport. When people start shopping price alone, the retail side of things (which is what all other sides aims to grow...return on investment and all that) becomes stagnant.
We need to encourage more of these riders to get involved and to make bikes and product obtainable. That's what will fuel the growth of the sport. It has little to do with the racing world. Gone are the days where riders would get two bikes every year. The used market was great, and new bike sales climbing. With those new bikes came a whole lot of parts and accessory sales. Life was good. And the sport was obtainable. Those days are past us in favor of used bikes or a single new bike every few years.
Growth has many metrics. The ones that matter are the ones that get families involved in the sport and not just a body in the stands at an event.
Shane
The riders should be somewhere near that. and no im not comparing apples to oranges. maybe in overall revenue for the sport would be a bad comparison.
But im talking at the lowest economically paid player in the nhl..thats the minium.
I personally think the riders should atleast make a base salary of 50grand a season with medical.
what other sports are you required to take huge risk's and not have any coverage from the employer??
besides action sports.
Half the desert is better equipped to go racing than 90% of the racers at a SX or National.
Better Bikes, even multiple bikes, tons of parts, generators, pressure washers etc with huge motorhomes and enclosed trailers. Or Giant 5th wheels pulled by Kodiaks and Freightliner Sport Chassis.
But most have no interest in racing because they wouldnt have ANY of the above if they were racing. Racing buys NOTHING for most except a few elite.
Most professional racers dont have a bike of their own once their team takes their bikes back. You hear it all the time. "I havent ridden in 6 months because I dont have a bike"
Pit Row
Want to grow the sport...it has to start at the local level with more tracks...then the problem becomes attendance at those tracks...a declining attendance is something I've been witnessing personally for several years now and is a very hard problem to come up with an answer for.. but I still believe its at the local level where the growth has to begin..
More tracks...more riders.
Open the door and welcome sponsors. Also race teams should be allowed to sell t shirts and clothing at races!
Pro salary problem:We need a better way to show sponsors, why should a sponsor spend money to get a tiny fender sticker no one sees? Secondly, we need more teams making sponsor money. If we have more teams to pay riders and less people having to go broke chasing the series. Also, outside sponsors are needed, there aren't that many energy drinks but if you got sports drinks or cell phone companies involved,as well as hardware stores(Home Depot,lowes,etc) then you have more money to go around. The idea of making sure series don't overlap is a very good idea as well. Honestly, purse money changes won't help much, it's the teams who ultimately are going to be able to pay more,not the promoter.However,it's up to the riders to voice the idea of change and nothing will happen until they do.
At the grassroots level: More riders=more riding areas. How are more riding areas supposed to open if there aren't riders to ride at them? Bikes are expensive especially in the current economy so maybe we need to focus on the trail/pit bike market first so new potential riders/racer can have an affordable way to learn how fun a dirtbike is. Also,there needs to be a different type of racing, people are sick of waiting all day for 30 minutes of seat time. For example, maybe scramble cross needs to be more popular, I rode one earlier this year and it was the perfect racing because you got 2 45 minute motos and the track was fast enough to be fun for moto guys, yet technical enough for the woods rider and guess what? 200 people showed up to race which is amazing considering current race turnouts in this area is way lower. I know these are a lot of maybes but I feel that any ideas are good at this point.
also i do agree the government could be more lenient on land and places to ride that would be nice. and it is hard to afford a bike now a days. i just bought a 16 kawi450 and youre right its not cheap, but in all honesty, the price of living has gone up as the bike prices have. its just inflation.
as far as sx/mx growth of the sport compared to desert, i could careless how each grow as long as their is an opportunity for growth.
and for the guys who say riders are replaceable at the privateer level is just a shame in my eyes not to the fellar who said this but because their isnt really any other avenues of revenue for a dirtbike rider who has dedicated most of their lives trying to achieve. (assuming starting as a little boy/girl). i also think you should have to graduate high school in order to compete. i think its completely ridiculous that in order to become successful at the highest level alot of people had to for go high school and a high school diploma, prom and any other activities that could be essential to have a balanced life of experiences with a lack of regret or anything of the sort.
again this is just my thoughts, not intended at anyone or anything. just a friendly discussion and see the inputs of others.
On the topic of riders should graduate from High School in order to compete I agree 110%! It is sad that this is the only sport that it is basically required and expected that you drop out of HS to race.
Of course that is the failure of the parents and then we have these non educated moto parents who are home schooling their kids? That is a horrible idea! Set the sport up so these kids stay in school and the sport will be stronger for it! Do the right thing and karma will reward you!
"We need somehow to get more youth riding I think. I still think it’s that.
Like in the ‘70s when everybody had a trail 70 Honda or whatever.
It was a very popular trend for kids to ride mini bikes. And I think if we could get that trend again, catch that wave, it would make us massive. I think the things that maybe stalled out a little bit maybe is cell phones and internet and those type things that maybe occupy kids more so. When we were kids I know we had TV, I watched Gilligan’s Island all the time or whatever, but still kids had a mini bike and wanted to go do that."
I think the reason less kids are getting into riding has less to do with cell phones and the internet and more with lack of open riding areas.
Where did all those kids ride their Trail Honda's?? In the hills next to their neighborhoods...now days all those trails in the hills are closed because of an endangered weed or to "slow climate change" or because there is a mall parking lot or subdivision built on them...and with no place to ride, parents-who aren't already involved in the sport-don't buy their kids bikes and so those kids never ride.
If I were Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha, KTM, Husky...if I were a pro rider (their income is dependent on the growth of the sport) or pro race team, or anyone or any organization (from Feld, to MX Sports, to Pro Circuit to FMF to Dunlop and Fox) whose income is dependent on the growth of the sport...I'd be spending my money and using my influence to keep riding areas open. Like Mitch said, we need to get more youth riding...and they need open riding areas to do that. As more and more riding areas close (I'm talking public land riding areas)...less and less youth will ride, and the sport won't grow.
So I wonder how much money pro circuit has donated to the AMA or Blue Ribbon Coalition??? Or to public officials who are "pro riding areas"??? That would be putting his money where his mouth is.
Until then, with less and less places to ride, it is going to die.
This sport luckily has millions of drunken bozos willing to get life flighted out of the dunes and desert areas to keep it propped up.
The trail/entry level dirtbike trail riding thing first, might be one way it could start. But then it comes back to riding ereas/tracks..and around and round we go...
Helping the pros does nothing for me, or anybody else who puts money into the sport. The money should be put into free riding schools, and holeshots awards at the local level. Not saying the pro riders need less, I don't think any of them are overpaid. And most are underpaid. But the professional level does very little for the "grassroots"
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