is this propaganda?

indy_maico
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11/18/2015 2:29pm
I say that since the guys who were behind the attacks in Paris last week-end were all either French or Belgian citizens, we need to ban any French or Belgians who want to enter the US.

In fact we need to shut down all travel from France and Belgium altogether.

We need to keep those bastards out!
indy_maico
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11/18/2015 2:30pm
indy_maico wrote:
I say that since the guys who were behind the attacks in Paris last week-end were all either French or Belgian citizens, we need to ban...
I say that since the guys who were behind the attacks in Paris last week-end were all either French or Belgian citizens, we need to ban any French or Belgians who want to enter the US.

In fact we need to shut down all travel from France and Belgium altogether.

We need to keep those bastards out!
In fact, we need to declare pre-emptive war on Belgium and France as per the Bush doctrine.

Orange724
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11/18/2015 3:15pm
Why in the hell does Europe and north America have to accept whoever the hell wants to claim to be a refugee in the 1st place? Last time I looked around here traffic is a frickin nightmare and there's a housing shortage. Same with a lot of cities around the western world. Plus we know there will be extremists mixed amongst them, 100% guaranteed. Fix your own jacked up part of the world.

There not known for work ethic or engineering. Just 7/11s and laying around smoking hooka
tvo314
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11/18/2015 7:41pm
tvo314 wrote:
Playing into their hands is changing America's ideals, and confirming their claim that America is at war with Islam. This is their big victory. We were...
Playing into their hands is changing America's ideals, and confirming their claim that America is at war with Islam. This is their big victory.

We were an international symbol of strength and compassion, now it seems some would rather see us reduced to fear and bigotry. I still believe America is better than that.
DoctorJD wrote:
"Fear and bigotry", here we go. Sorry, playing the tired old political correctness card isn't going to fly right now. How about in the wake of...
"Fear and bigotry", here we go. Sorry, playing the tired old political correctness card isn't going to fly right now. How about in the wake of what just happened in Paris, we pump the brakes on immigrating these people for just a little while until we can get a handle on exactly who we're letting in. The FBI and Homeland Security shares this same notion. At the very least, our government owes it to it's citizens to do this.
When I hear politicians running for the presidency claim that we should enact religious tests on would be refugees, it goes far beyond political correctness and is contrary to our core American values and is most definitely bigotry. But, I understand people's concerns, and of course we need to make sure that our already intensive process is adequate. Maybe it's not, like most things, I'm sure it can be improved. I also acknowledge that terrorism isn't going anywhere and will most likely only become a larger problem, I just can't agree with those who would block all refugees from coming in.

Hell, even France just confirmed that they will honor their commitment to take in an additional 30,000 Syrian refugees. To me, that shows strength and sends a message to ISIS that they will not change what they stand for. In comparison we are only talking of taking 10,000 over several years. Is this a case of France showing more bravery than the US? I'm only half serious, but we should take note of their resolve and courage.

The Shop

DoctorJD
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11/19/2015 6:08am
DoctorJD wrote:
"Fear and bigotry", here we go. Sorry, playing the tired old political correctness card isn't going to fly right now. How about in the wake of...
"Fear and bigotry", here we go. Sorry, playing the tired old political correctness card isn't going to fly right now. How about in the wake of what just happened in Paris, we pump the brakes on immigrating these people for just a little while until we can get a handle on exactly who we're letting in. The FBI and Homeland Security shares this same notion. At the very least, our government owes it to it's citizens to do this.
Hut wrote:
I have seen claims that it takes a year to 18 months for them to get their clearances. Are you familiar with the vetting process of...
I have seen claims that it takes a year to 18 months for them to get their clearances. Are you familiar with the vetting process of refugees? It seems like a terrorist could find other ways to enter with less scrutiny but I admit; I honestly have no clue.
I did see this today, Readout of the White House Call with Governors
This response to you and tvo314

I did hear for the first time this morning that the vetting process take up to 18 months. However, the Homeland Security director has informed Obama that they (nor the FBI or the NCTC) have the infrastructure in place to properly vet the refugees. Sorry, I'll defer to the opinion of those agencies. The theme of my reply to tvo314 was that this was not the time to forgo common sense in the name of political correctness. It's time to be prudent. Can you imagine what would happen in this country if just two of those refugees end up being extremists who organize a similar attack in the states? If you think there's bigotry and fear now?

Here's a copy of the letter I referenced:
https://homeland.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Chairman_McCaul_S…

tvo314
The French have been struck twice this year by Islamic extremists with a third attack being thwarted. In regards to taking in 30,000 Syrians, lets just say I question the logic behind that decision.

tvo314
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11/19/2015 8:55am
DoctorJD wrote:
"Fear and bigotry", here we go. Sorry, playing the tired old political correctness card isn't going to fly right now. How about in the wake of...
"Fear and bigotry", here we go. Sorry, playing the tired old political correctness card isn't going to fly right now. How about in the wake of what just happened in Paris, we pump the brakes on immigrating these people for just a little while until we can get a handle on exactly who we're letting in. The FBI and Homeland Security shares this same notion. At the very least, our government owes it to it's citizens to do this.
Hut wrote:
I have seen claims that it takes a year to 18 months for them to get their clearances. Are you familiar with the vetting process of...
I have seen claims that it takes a year to 18 months for them to get their clearances. Are you familiar with the vetting process of refugees? It seems like a terrorist could find other ways to enter with less scrutiny but I admit; I honestly have no clue.
I did see this today, Readout of the White House Call with Governors
DoctorJD wrote:
This response to you and tvo314 I did hear for the first time this morning that the vetting process take up to 18 months. However, the...
This response to you and tvo314

I did hear for the first time this morning that the vetting process take up to 18 months. However, the Homeland Security director has informed Obama that they (nor the FBI or the NCTC) have the infrastructure in place to properly vet the refugees. Sorry, I'll defer to the opinion of those agencies. The theme of my reply to tvo314 was that this was not the time to forgo common sense in the name of political correctness. It's time to be prudent. Can you imagine what would happen in this country if just two of those refugees end up being extremists who organize a similar attack in the states? If you think there's bigotry and fear now?

Here's a copy of the letter I referenced:
https://homeland.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Chairman_McCaul_S…

tvo314
The French have been struck twice this year by Islamic extremists with a third attack being thwarted. In regards to taking in 30,000 Syrians, lets just say I question the logic behind that decision.

I understand what you're saying and I do respect your point of view. I still think that my views have little to do with being PC. I don't use the term bigot lightly and I'm really not easily offended, but I am very concerned about any talk of religious tests, that's where I was coming from, and of course that wasn't directed at anything you said. I am willing to be pragmatic. I understand why we would or should vet an immigrant or refugee from Syria, more thoroughly than someone from Taiwan or New Zealand. I'm ok with profiling to a certain extent, it's human nature and we all do it to some degree everyday.

I agree that if the experts you mentioned fear that our process isn't adequate, (it doesn't surprise me at all if it isn't) then we should see what we can do to make it much better. I am also sure that it can never be completely secure. But most threats come from immigrants or individuals born and raised here. How can we better address them? Considering how hard it is to make it through the refugee process, I don't see terrorist using this approach as their first choice, it's not efficient. Of course ISIS loves to play on our fears and will say that they plan to use the system to smuggle people in, and they may try, but I don't think that it is our biggest vulnerability.

Also,I think that if we do cut off all refugees from Syria, then every disillusioned youth will have one more reason to believe his radicalized mullah's violent rhetoric. But if a kid who's grown up surrounded by fighting and poverty sees that his neighbor and others from his community were taken into the US and now are safe and have a future, he will probably be far less likely to believe the Mullah who claims that America is the "Great Satan". I do believe that our goodwill can go a long way in protecting us, along with taking substantial steps to always improve our security. I have a friend who was a political refugee from Uzbekistan. He arrived with hardly any English, got a job as a dishwasher and worked his way into university and then law school and is now a Lawyer. No one believes in the American dream more than him. It may be anecdotal, but I know he's not the only one.

The situation in France is in many ways much more difficult than what we have here in the US. I admire their resolve in sticking to their values, but also acknowledge the very real risk they are taking in doing so. But similar to the US most of their problems are with those who are already there, not so much refugees fleeing the nightmare of Syria. ISIS and other groups, I'm sure will try to exploit the wave of refugees, and I hope that France is capable of protecting themselves. It will be very difficult, but I doubt Hollande would make that decision without carefully considering the safety of his people.
steed 2.0
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11/19/2015 11:11am
I'm sorry. I couldn't resist...


"I have a friend who was a political refugee from Uzbekistan. He arrived with hardly any English, got a job as a dishwasher and worked his way into university and then law school and is now a Lawyer. No one believes in the American dream more than him. It may be anecdotal, but I know he's not the only one."




DoctorJD
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11/19/2015 11:58am
tvo314 wrote:
I understand what you're saying and I do respect your point of view. I still think that my views have little to do with being PC...
I understand what you're saying and I do respect your point of view. I still think that my views have little to do with being PC. I don't use the term bigot lightly and I'm really not easily offended, but I am very concerned about any talk of religious tests, that's where I was coming from, and of course that wasn't directed at anything you said. I am willing to be pragmatic. I understand why we would or should vet an immigrant or refugee from Syria, more thoroughly than someone from Taiwan or New Zealand. I'm ok with profiling to a certain extent, it's human nature and we all do it to some degree everyday.

I agree that if the experts you mentioned fear that our process isn't adequate, (it doesn't surprise me at all if it isn't) then we should see what we can do to make it much better. I am also sure that it can never be completely secure. But most threats come from immigrants or individuals born and raised here. How can we better address them? Considering how hard it is to make it through the refugee process, I don't see terrorist using this approach as their first choice, it's not efficient. Of course ISIS loves to play on our fears and will say that they plan to use the system to smuggle people in, and they may try, but I don't think that it is our biggest vulnerability.

Also,I think that if we do cut off all refugees from Syria, then every disillusioned youth will have one more reason to believe his radicalized mullah's violent rhetoric. But if a kid who's grown up surrounded by fighting and poverty sees that his neighbor and others from his community were taken into the US and now are safe and have a future, he will probably be far less likely to believe the Mullah who claims that America is the "Great Satan". I do believe that our goodwill can go a long way in protecting us, along with taking substantial steps to always improve our security. I have a friend who was a political refugee from Uzbekistan. He arrived with hardly any English, got a job as a dishwasher and worked his way into university and then law school and is now a Lawyer. No one believes in the American dream more than him. It may be anecdotal, but I know he's not the only one.

The situation in France is in many ways much more difficult than what we have here in the US. I admire their resolve in sticking to their values, but also acknowledge the very real risk they are taking in doing so. But similar to the US most of their problems are with those who are already there, not so much refugees fleeing the nightmare of Syria. ISIS and other groups, I'm sure will try to exploit the wave of refugees, and I hope that France is capable of protecting themselves. It will be very difficult, but I doubt Hollande would make that decision without carefully considering the safety of his people.
Good response tvo. Thanks for keeping it civil, don't see much of that in Non-Moto these days.
Prntscrn
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11/19/2015 12:41pm
Yes it is overly dramatic. And yes there is som truth to it.
tvo314
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11/19/2015 1:01pm
DoctorJD wrote:
Good response tvo. Thanks for keeping it civil, don't see much of that in Non-Moto these days.
Your views are very reasonable and your response was thoughtful. My views are slightly different, but that's ok, ultimately you very well may be right.
malachi177
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11/19/2015 5:24pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2015 5:28pm
moto455va wrote:
ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF THE FEW

NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS YOU RACIST!!
MUSLIM/ISLAM IS A RELIGION NOT A RACE.....SO THEREFORE IT'S NOT RACIST!!!!!!!


If that was sarcasm....you got me Laughing
Dtat720
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11/19/2015 6:24pm
When you set a goal of fundamentally transforming a country you have to overwhelm the system. Americans are a resillient people, but when you wreck an economy with regulation and overtake almost 20% of it under government control (healthcare), print money at an alarming rate and inflate the markets to the point where if you stop printing, a market correction would be catastrophic and hyperinflation would finish it off... Continue to add taxes to each continuing resolution passed, make employment hard to find, force people on to government assistance, allow illegal immigration to go unchecked, advertise is poor countries that government assistance is available if they come to america, some of these immigrants will find employment, which drives labor costs down, which drives wages down, which drives cost of living up for those already making a low wage... Bring in refugees. Overload the system. Do not ask them to assimilate to the american culture. Allow them to love in the country in their ways. Reduce the population of americans who value american culture... You fundamentally transform the country.
SCR
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11/19/2015 6:59pm
Dtat720 wrote:
When you set a goal of fundamentally transforming a country you have to overwhelm the system. Americans are a resillient people, but when you wreck an...
When you set a goal of fundamentally transforming a country you have to overwhelm the system. Americans are a resillient people, but when you wreck an economy with regulation and overtake almost 20% of it under government control (healthcare), print money at an alarming rate and inflate the markets to the point where if you stop printing, a market correction would be catastrophic and hyperinflation would finish it off... Continue to add taxes to each continuing resolution passed, make employment hard to find, force people on to government assistance, allow illegal immigration to go unchecked, advertise is poor countries that government assistance is available if they come to america, some of these immigrants will find employment, which drives labor costs down, which drives wages down, which drives cost of living up for those already making a low wage... Bring in refugees. Overload the system. Do not ask them to assimilate to the american culture. Allow them to love in the country in their ways. Reduce the population of americans who value american culture... You fundamentally transform the country.
Most intelligent post I have read in awhile.

Thank You.
PalerBlue
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11/19/2015 9:40pm
Dtat720 wrote:
When you set a goal of fundamentally transforming a country you have to overwhelm the system. Americans are a resillient people, but when you wreck an...
When you set a goal of fundamentally transforming a country you have to overwhelm the system. Americans are a resillient people, but when you wreck an economy with regulation and overtake almost 20% of it under government control (healthcare), print money at an alarming rate and inflate the markets to the point where if you stop printing, a market correction would be catastrophic and hyperinflation would finish it off... Continue to add taxes to each continuing resolution passed, make employment hard to find, force people on to government assistance, allow illegal immigration to go unchecked, advertise is poor countries that government assistance is available if they come to america, some of these immigrants will find employment, which drives labor costs down, which drives wages down, which drives cost of living up for those already making a low wage... Bring in refugees. Overload the system. Do not ask them to assimilate to the american culture. Allow them to love in the country in their ways. Reduce the population of americans who value american culture... You fundamentally transform the country.
If 10,000 refugees will overwhealm and "fundamentally transform the country" and culture of the 320,000,000 inhabitants ot the U.S., then I can only conclude that that population and culture is pretty feeble.

Several people on this board claim to be Christians but I see very little evidence of Christian values/compassion in most of their posts. The most thoughtful person so far in this thread seems to be TVO. Is it only a coincidence that he has lived abroad? If travel broadens the mind and opens eyes, some of you appear to have never left your State let alone visited a foreign country.
SCR
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11/20/2015 12:22am
Dtat720 wrote:
When you set a goal of fundamentally transforming a country you have to overwhelm the system. Americans are a resillient people, but when you wreck an...
When you set a goal of fundamentally transforming a country you have to overwhelm the system. Americans are a resillient people, but when you wreck an economy with regulation and overtake almost 20% of it under government control (healthcare), print money at an alarming rate and inflate the markets to the point where if you stop printing, a market correction would be catastrophic and hyperinflation would finish it off... Continue to add taxes to each continuing resolution passed, make employment hard to find, force people on to government assistance, allow illegal immigration to go unchecked, advertise is poor countries that government assistance is available if they come to america, some of these immigrants will find employment, which drives labor costs down, which drives wages down, which drives cost of living up for those already making a low wage... Bring in refugees. Overload the system. Do not ask them to assimilate to the american culture. Allow them to love in the country in their ways. Reduce the population of americans who value american culture... You fundamentally transform the country.
PalerBlue wrote:
If 10,000 refugees will overwhealm and "fundamentally transform the country" and culture of the 320,000,000 inhabitants ot the U.S., then I can only conclude that that...
If 10,000 refugees will overwhealm and "fundamentally transform the country" and culture of the 320,000,000 inhabitants ot the U.S., then I can only conclude that that population and culture is pretty feeble.

Several people on this board claim to be Christians but I see very little evidence of Christian values/compassion in most of their posts. The most thoughtful person so far in this thread seems to be TVO. Is it only a coincidence that he has lived abroad? If travel broadens the mind and opens eyes, some of you appear to have never left your State let alone visited a foreign country.
Come on. Either you didn't read what Dtat wrote or your just trying to be a dick. He didn't say refugees would overwhelm the country. And it seems you don't understand the reference to " fundamentally transform the country"

The US has a lot more going on besides 10,000 refugees. As the country that has taken in more rugees, more immigrants, provided more financial aid, humanitarian aid, and charity around the world than any other country or three in the world. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants that we now welcome every year and provide unthinkable tax payer funder services for. Add in the economic damage caused by the federal Goveronment that Dtat720 mentioned and yes, this country is being overwhelmed. And anyone that is paying attention understands this.

To date Great Britain has taken in 200 syrian refugees. The US has taken 2000. Only about 50 of those 2000 were Christians .
Dtat720
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11/20/2015 4:56am
Selective outrage, pick the easiest arguement to burn a straw man with and run with it.....

10,000 refugees is not what the admin wants. He is on record stating we need to bring in 100,000 a year for the next "few" years. His pr team had to delete several tweets in reference to increased numbers of refugees, the main one being about 100,000 at the start of next year.

The state dept was before congress last week and was forced give intel on refugee and genocide data the state dept is using to determine financial help and who gets help first. The state department stated very clearly they will not be giving christians or kurds genocide status, only muslims and yazidis. Why yazidis when they are not muslims? They are of Iranian origins. Yazidis are offshoots of zoraistrans who are of iranian decent. Now look at his closest advisors, iranian decent. With the genocide label, we are obligated to spend our resources rebuilding their communities, governments. They are refusing kurds and christians, helping Iran and the rest of the muslims.

Does anyone understand what this admin is doing? There is a reason there are behavioral psychologists in his inner circle more than intel advisors.
Uncle Tony
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11/20/2015 5:09am
indy_maico wrote:
I say that since the guys who were behind the attacks in Paris last week-end were all either French or Belgian citizens, we need to ban...
I say that since the guys who were behind the attacks in Paris last week-end were all either French or Belgian citizens, we need to ban any French or Belgians who want to enter the US.

In fact we need to shut down all travel from France and Belgium altogether.

We need to keep those bastards out!
It wasn't to long ago we banned all things French when they refused to let was use their air space
Uncle Tony
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11/20/2015 5:21am
Uncle Tony wrote:
It wasn't to long ago we banned all things French when they refused to let was use their air space
I should have used the world boycott not banned, sorry
Hut
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11/21/2015 10:43am Edited Date/Time 11/21/2015 10:43am
DoctorJD wrote:
This response to you and tvo314 I did hear for the first time this morning that the vetting process take up to 18 months. However, the...
This response to you and tvo314

I did hear for the first time this morning that the vetting process take up to 18 months. However, the Homeland Security director has informed Obama that they (nor the FBI or the NCTC) have the infrastructure in place to properly vet the refugees. Sorry, I'll defer to the opinion of those agencies. The theme of my reply to tvo314 was that this was not the time to forgo common sense in the name of political correctness. It's time to be prudent. Can you imagine what would happen in this country if just two of those refugees end up being extremists who organize a similar attack in the states? If you think there's bigotry and fear now?

Here's a copy of the letter I referenced:
https://homeland.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Chairman_McCaul_S…

tvo314
The French have been struck twice this year by Islamic extremists with a third attack being thwarted. In regards to taking in 30,000 Syrians, lets just say I question the logic behind that decision.

You are right. If/when their is another attack here in the USA, people will be flipping out. The media helps feed the anxiety.
J.F.S
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11/21/2015 1:22pm
Immigration is a challenge in Europe, but the film is total bogus and fake. Clips taken out of context, clips put in the wrong context, lies and general bs. So I suppose it is some sort of propaganda film, to scare people?

Post a reply to: is this propaganda?

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