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Can we agree that most people who drive Fords are choosing to be gay, though?
The truck situation you describe is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
Let's say I had a Sierra that outlasted two Tundras. In this case my environment & experience will have led me to the knowledge that GMs are superior. There was no choice involved on my part.
I could choose to BUY either brand or join a fan club of either brand, but my knowledge of which one is a better truck and therefore which one I prefer is not something I chose.
Readers tuning in late might wonder what trucks have to do with being gay.
I have heard supporters of the l-g-b-t-q-wtfever movement say:
"Ask any gay person and they will tell you they have no choice about their preference. Therefore this means they are born that way."
That line is reasoning is fallacious.
We have little or no choice in PLENTY of our everyday preferences. That does not mean we are born that way. I was not born a Toyota fan or a fan of the female form. Both developed later in life.
I would ask you, gentle reader, a quick favor: Right now, and just for 5 or 10 minutes, please choose to prefer synchronized swimming rather than anything to do with motorcycles as your new hobby, and post a message about your new found passion.
I think you will find it difficult because even in day to day life you can't always choose what you prefer. But that does NOT mean you were born preferring motorcycles, that developed later in life.
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I don't consider an F150 to be a truck so I didn't include it in my example. :^)
edit.. spelling
Also, I have never actually dated a female. I don't expect that I ever will but I will post pics here if I ever do.
Has anyone ever asked a gay person if he felt like a victim of his genes?
I'll bet "most gay people" wouldn't even answer such a ridiculous question.
He says he was only gay when it was fashionable.
I was in the entertainment industry for many years and interacted with lots of LGBT people, many of whom are still good friends.
Not one would tell you that they chose to be the way they are, that's just who they are, and always were.
Most actually struggled with it, but eventually went with their true nature.
So Woody if you understand what I said above, even if you vehemently disagree, I would be very happy to end my involvement in this thread.
Edit* I will say that you did not say that you were against gay marriage, but I did make that assumption because your position is pretty much indistinguishable from the people that are against it.
I know, total double standard!!...but heres about the best way I think it works. (on to rule 2)
rule 2) See rule one!
I'm anti-religion, pro-gay rights and pro-gun, (and I like chics that like dicks). Seems there isn't a welcoming Pidgeon-hole for me.
Hmmm.......bi huh? .... hey Id like to introduce you to my wife!
:
We can change a man into a woman, but we can't get food to the space station.
Let's say I had a Sierra that outlasted two Tundras. In this case my environment & experience will have led me to the knowledge that GMs are superior. There was no choice involved on my part.
Um, yes there is a choice here.
I could choose to BUY either brand or join a fan club of either brand, but my knowledge of which one is a better truck and therefore which one I prefer is not something I chose
Yes, you have a choice. This is why the truck analogy is shit.
"Ask any gay person and they will tell you they have no choice about their preference. Therefore this means they are born that way."
That line is reasoning is fallacious.
You want to talk about poor reasoning? You have yet to even give a solid analogy, let alone any sort of verifiable data that choice is involved... on any level. You're entire line of reason has revolved around "this single twin study says it's not genetic, therefore it must be a choice."
FAIL
We have little or no choice in PLENTY of our everyday preferences. That does not mean we are born that way. I was not born a Toyota fan or a fan of the female form. Both developed later in life.
How can you show that gay people are not born gay? Do you have any data on that, or is it just an assertion?
Nevermind, the fact is that you're asking and answering your own question, which you have given no indication how it would be a better question, or why it would be more important to answer, than simply "do people have a choice?"
I think you will find it difficult because even in day to day life you can't always choose what you prefer. But that does NOT mean you were born preferring motorcycles, that developed later in life.
This is true. You don't have a choice in which gender you are attracted to. You do have a choice in whether or not you lie about it, and try to live a "normal" life, in accordance with religious right wing nutbags.
*Edit- This is why many of the priests that "choose" celibacy end up molesting children. Chances are, they were pedophiles for their entire lives, and they thought that joining the church would cure them of it. They made a "choice" that had little to no effect on the things that they never had any choice over.
you: Um, yes there is a choice here.
Please explain where choice would be involved in that scenario.
Yes, you have a choice. This is why the truck analogy is shit.
The truck scenario was not an analogy, it was an example. You will have to google the difference, I don't have time to explain it to you here.
"Ask any gay person and they will tell you they have no choice about their preference. Therefore this means they are born that way."
That line is reasoning is fallacious.
You want to talk about poor reasoning? You have yet to even give a solid analogy, let alone any sort of verifiable data that choice is involved... on any level.
Show me where I said it was a choice.
You're entire line of reason has revolved around "this single twin study says it's not genetic, therefore it must be a choice."
Show me where I said it was a choice.
I stand by my position that reasoning I described as fallacious is just that. If you, as a master of logic & debating and all-round tough guy when hiding behind a computer screen, would like to defend it, I would listen.
How can you show that gay people are not born gay? Do you have any data on that, or is it just an assertion?
I wonder how you get by in life with your learning disability. I guess being such a pompous ass makes up for it. Can you show me where I asserted what you just said, or made any assertion at all apart from the fact the the above-mentioned line of reasoning is not sound, and giving examples to show that most preferences in life are not a choice but are surely not innate.
Pit Row
People read the 14th amendment as they see fit to see it...
No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
You people crack me up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Cons…
Here is Jefferson on the topic, as well.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.[9]
First Amendment - Religion and Expression. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I have heard supporters of the l-g-b-t-q-wtfever movement say:
"Ask any gay person and they will tell you they have no choice about their preference. Therefore this means they are born that way."
That line is reasoning is fallacious.
Any productive conversation is pretty much impossible, considering your definition of choice is completely backwards.
choice
[ CHois ]
NOUN
- an act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities:
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